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  • lineupofpeace

    Just got an e-mail about this. Also giving players multiple position eligibility.

  • JZ

    @Njsum1 said...

    Your initial post was replied to by two people, myself being one, both suggesting a similar solution which is FAR better than yours. You reposted what you wrote without even acknowledging the responses, either agreeing or disagreeing. At this point I’ll just assume you may just be trolling. In case, you honestly missed it…here’s the solution….in addition to the 8 positions, everyone gets to draft a near min priced sub player as well with a cap of 3500. So you get a 50k cap, and draft 8 players with the cap (same as now), then you get an additional 3500 for a sub (outside of the cap), for a total of 9 players. At the end of the night your top 8 scores count. Not only does this protect against a late scratch, but an in game injury, or a benching, or foul trouble, or just an absolutely terrible performance.

    As stated earlier, here is why your solution won’t work…you play player A, he gets late scratched…now you get 23 points (half his implied total)

    I roster player B, who gets injured one minute into the game. Why should you get 23 points and I get 0? We were both victims of bad luck. The only solution, other than bringing late swap back, is the substitute player option. The sub option allows for an early lock (which I and many others like) while protecting against late scratches, without giving anyone an unfair advantage.

    I would be in support of your solution, as well. Not sure why your reply is so abrasive. I am obviously not trying to troll lol.

  • KindGuy

    The problem is you guys GROSSLY overestimate how much of the DFS community is on these forums. The only people on here are the diehards. Casuals make up the biggest segment of DFS players I’m pretty sure.

    I’d love to see a poll done. We’re not the center of the DFS Universe guys………..

  • billholler

    @elementasrat said...

    We’re not the center of the DFS Universe guys……….

    Speak for yourself Mr. Casual Player

  • njsum

    @JZ said...

    I would be in support of your solution, as well. Not sure why your reply is so abrasive. I am obviously not trying to troll lol.

    not trying to be overly abrasive (maybe just a little abrasive..haha) I just figured when someone responds to someone elses post, they’d acknowledge the responses, (either saying I disagree or saying I agree your solution may be better) before reposting the same thought. It’s all good man, I appreciate the response this time..haha

  • hishboo

    • 14

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #14

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    • 2019 $1M Prize Winner

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    @pacerfan07 said...

    Sorry two more things:

    How would ownership percentages on a full slate correspond to the late slate? For example, say the Knicks tip off at 7 and a lot of people may be all over Hernagomez due to a great price, matchup, and Porzingis being out. This would lower the ownership on other centers such as Boogie. So the full slate may suggest that Boogie has low ownership, where he may have high ownership in the late slate. The entire landscape changes too much when you have less teams to pick from, consequently altering the ownership percentages.

    Secondly, how would releasing the early slate ownership percentages give anyone a competitive advantage on the late slate? Wouldn’t everyone have access to the same information at that point?

    I agree that the ownership at face value wouldn’t necessarily be all that useful for the later slates if that’s all you’re using, but knowing the relative ownership on the main slate among players on the late slate is significant information that players can leverage to get more accurate ownership projections on later slates.

    As far as everyone having access to the same data, yes that’s true, but most players wouldn’t bother or know how to use the information effectively.

    Trust me, I would love it too if they released ownership at lock, but I also think it’s completely fair that they don’t

  • Zieg30

    @billholler said...

    You must not have read any of it. About 10% seem to like it, 30% are indifferent and the rest of us hate it. The 10% that like it tend to be the people that play almost every night but only play 1 or 2 lineups.

    Elementasrat’s point is correct that it’s only on the RG forum that you’re seeing that play out.

    But also, ultimately, you can’t read much from forum post volume. Those who oppose something that’s changed will always be louder and more vehement in their objections than those who agree with the change. The latter simply don’t have a reason to post about it as much because they got their way.

  • wideopen23

    @elementasrat said...

    The problem is you guys GROSSLY overestimate how much of the DFS community is on these forums. The only people on here are the diehards. Casuals make up the biggest segment of DFS players I’m pretty sure.

    I’d love to see a poll done. We’re not the center of the DFS Universe guys………..

    No one here wants to acknowledge this truth.

  • billholler

    You guys seriously believe that the average Joe who plays 1 or 2 lineups a night that he entered on his phone during his lunch break is going to keep playing if he gets burned by a late scratch? Nothing screams “rigged” more to a casual player than rostering a guy with high ownership, have him be a late scratch and then see 1000’s of players win who didn’t roster him and that casual player knows he had time to change it before tip off but wasn’t allowed to.

  • Lathum

    @billholler said...

    You guys seriously believe that the average Joe who plays 1 or 2 lineups a night that he entered on his phone during his lunch break is going to keep playing if he gets burned by a late scratch? Nothing screams “rigged” more to a casual player than rostering a guy with high ownership, have him be a late scratch and then see 1000’s of players win who didn’t roster him and that casual player knows he had time to change it before tip off but wasn’t allowed to.

    I think you, and many others, either can’t or won’t look at this objectively because of your negative experiences.

    The average guy is much more likely to deal with late scratches then the perception that he/she HAS to be around at every tip every night off otherwise they are putting themselves at a vast disadvantage.

    I would venture most people not happy with this don’t have children or other nightly commitments that hamper being around at lock. Lets also not forget about people on the west coast, “sorry I was late for my 4:30 meeting boss, but I needed to be on rotogrinders until lock because Spencer Dinwiddie was a GTD

    DFS is not the focal point of the lives of the majority of players. I think some people around here would likely benefit from that philosophy.

  • Lathum

    @billholler said...

    You must not have read any of it. About 10% seem to like it, 30% are indifferent and the rest of us hate it. The 10% that like it tend to be the people that play almost every night but only play 1 or 2 lineups.

    I used to work in polling, data analysis, NPS, Gallup polls, etc…

    People who have a negative experience are 10X more likely to tell someone about it or take to social media to complain than those who have had a good experience. Internet forums probably multiply that X100. Internet forums basically exist so people who just sat on the beach can complain about the sand in their vaginas.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Lathum said...

    I used to work in polling, data analysis, NPS, Gallup polls, etc…

    People who have a negative experience are 10X more likely to tell someone about it or take to social media to complain than those who have had a good experience. Internet forums probably multiply tat X100. Internet forums basically exist so people who just sat on the beach can complain about the sand in their vaginas.

    Brutally honest but true.

  • KindGuy

    Lathum speaking the truth!!!!!!!!

    Casuals aren’t on rotogrinders!!!!

  • KindGuy

    @Lathum said...

    Internet forums basically exist so people who just sat on the beach can complain about the sand in their vaginas.

  • jimfred82

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Lathum said...

    Internet forums basically exist so people who just sat on the beach can complain about the sand in their vaginas.

    This is arguably the greatest statement I’ve ever read anywhere. If that’s yours, you need to TM that in a hurry.

  • Touchole

    100% Truth.

  • billholler

    @Lathum said...

    I would venture most people not happy with this don’t have children or other nightly commitments that hamper being around at lock.

    I have 5 children, 2 dogs and 2 cats. I own 2 businesses which are open at night, one of which is open all day and night. I despise not having late swap. In most cases, I play every day. However if I’m too busy to do at least an hour of research, I just don’t play. The Butler debacle was one of those days when I didn’t have time to do any research but I still made 5 lineups, 2 of which had Butler. I wasn’t too pissed because I probably would have had 50-60 LU with Butler if I would have had time. If I’m not mistaken, there were roughly 43,000 dead lineups that night that didn’t have to be.

    The best argument is that the removal of late swap turns a supposedly skill based game into gambling and luck while the leaders of the industry spend 10s of millions trying to prove that it’s not gambling and luck.

  • Lathum

    @billholler said...

    I have 5 children, 2 dogs and 2 cats. I own 2 businesses which are open at night, one of which is open all day and night. I despise not having late swap. In most cases, I play every day. However if I’m too busy to do at least an hour of research, I just don’t play. The Butler debacle was one of those days when I didn’t have time to do any research but I still made 5 lineups, 2 of which had Butler. I wasn’t too pissed because I probably would have had 50-60 LU with Butler if I would have had time. If I’m not mistaken, there were roughly 43,000 dead lineups that night that didn’t have to be.

    The best argument is that the removal of late swap turns a supposedly skill based game into gambling and luck while the leaders of the industry spend 10s of millions trying to prove that it’s not gambling and luck.

    You are the perfect example of someone who is unable to look past their own anecdotal evidence and see the big picture.

    In your mind you have kids, commitments, etc…and still like late swap and can track alerts, hence everyone should be able to.

  • Zieg30

    @billholler said...

    The best argument is that the removal of late swap turns a supposedly skill based game into gambling and luck while the leaders of the industry spend 10s of millions trying to prove that it’s not gambling and luck.

    I’m not sure how “no late swap” turns a skill based game into gambling any more than unpredictable coaching rotations and in-game injuries do. There is a strong chance-based component to DFS. Late-swap or no late-swap doesn’t appreciably move that needle.

  • billholler

    @Zieg30 said...

    I’m not sure how “no late swap: turns a skill based game into gambling any more than unpredictable coaching rotations and in-game injuries do. There is a strong chance-based component to DFS. Late-swap or no late-swap doesn’t appreciably move that needle.

    Saahil and Cory Joseph is all I have to say about that.

  • depalma13

    New York and Florida law both state in multi-race wagers you are either given a “designated horse” or your money is refunded if a late scratch occurs after the first race of the sequence.

    This law is going to be the downfall of DFS if they don’t fix this problem. All it is going to take is one person to ask one of their Representatives, why people who play one game of skill, horse racing, are protected from losing their money from scratches, but people who play a different game of skill, DFS are forced to lose their money before a game (race in the sequence) even starts.

    Draftkings and Fanduel have three choices. Refund players who are subject to a late scratch, reinstate late swap for DK and add it for Fanduel, or come up with a way to designate a player.

    Since they can’t name the highest owned player (favorite) from a particular game because of position be the designated player, the easiest way is to reinstate or add late swap. If this really is a problem and is causing casual players to not participate, than they must allow players to chose a “designated player” from a predetermined list (players under 5k for example), or they must designate a player from every game that will fill in for a scratch. In both instances the designated player must be eligible for every position.

    The suck it up and take it attitude has to stop. This is real money and these sites are not complying with laws that will be used against them.

  • Jvanspro

    I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying late swap benefits the casual player and the casual player wants it. The only people that actually have that data is DK and FD. Clearly it seems they disagree with that opinion. I can tell you for me, as a casual player I would not and will not play on a NBA late swap site. I’m way to busy to waste my entire evening watching twitter. I’d much rather set my lineup and have it lock with the first game and then go about the rest of my evening. If one of my players is out, so be it, tomorrow is another day.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Jvanspro said...

    I don’t understand why everyone keeps saying late swap benefits the casual player and the casual player wants it. The only people that actually have that data is DK and FD. Clearly it seems they disagree with that opinion. I can tell you for me, as a casual player I would not and will not play on a NBA late swap site. I’m way to busy to waste my entire evening watching twitter. I’d much rather set my lineup and have it lock with the first game and then go about the rest of my evening. If one of my players is out, so be it, tomorrow is another day.

    I’m not a casual player and I agree. I have always played most of my action on FD because of no late swap. Once lineup lock hits, it’s family time for me.

  • Zieg30

    @depalma13 said...

    The suck it up and take it attitude has to stop. This is real money and these sites are not complying with laws that will be used against them.

    There is no law that they’re not complying with.

    Sure, hypothetically the New York and/or Florida legislatures could decide to draft a new law, or amend the existing one, to have it apply to DFS, but until that day comes there is absolutely no reason for the DFS sites to be concerned about a law that applies to horse racing.

  • billholler

    Whether you agree with it or not, depalma13 has an interesting take on this and one I had not considered.

  • btwice80

    @depalma13 said...

    Draftkings and Fanduel have three choices. Refund players who are subject to a late scratch, reinstate late swap for DK and add it for Fanduel, or come up with a way to designate a player.

    Pretty sure those aren’t the only three choices. FD has been operating for quite a few years just fine.

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