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  • lineupofpeace

    Just got an e-mail about this. Also giving players multiple position eligibility.

  • depalma13

    @btwice80 said...

    Pretty sure those aren’t the only three choices. FD has been operating for quite a few years just fine.

    Fanduel violated numerous state laws for years.

  • btwice80

    @depalma13 said...

    DFS exists in New York because they amended the Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law. The same law that specifically addresses scratches.

    The late scratch part of that law specifically refers to horses. DK and FD are not violating any laws in this case.

  • KindGuy

    @billholler said...

    You obviously haven’t read this thread, but we don’t care about guys with minor injuries that we knew ahead of time were banged up. It’s the after lock scratches of star players that had no indication of injury or even a hint that they may rest that everyone is complaining about. No reason anyone should take a zero because Mike Conley and Marc Gasol are randomly given a night off to rest after LU lock. BTW, I had already faded Conley and Gasol that night so it worked out well for me but it certainly wasn’t because of my amazing DFS skill.

    You misread my post.

    When I said “possibility”, I wasn’t referring to an individual player possibly being out.

    I meant that AS SOON as you enter a DK NBA contest, there is a possibility of a late scratch happening and there’s NOTHING you can do about it.

    Therefore, it baffles me why people continue to complain yet still play on DK. You know going in what the risks are.

  • SkateFiend

    @Lathum said...

    Luck is a huge part of DFS.

    How would it be any different if Butler hurt his heel on the first play?

    Jimmy Butler getting hurt on the first play of the game is an inherent risk within the game. It’s not quite the same as a coach who unexpectedly rests or disciplines a player an hour before game time, which is cutting it close even at Yahoo.

    Any way you look at it, removing late swap removes the element of skill. If you had a good lineup with Jimmy Butler that fateful night, you lost for reasons that were almost completely out of your hands. We pick players who have reasonable expectation of playing, while minding factors like injury history or weather. What indications did players at “no late swap” site have that Jimmy Butler wouldn’t play that night?

    If this becomes common (and it likely will, given that many teams will give up on the playoffs and shuffle the roster), winning money may become a matter of “who had 8 active players on this night”. Which might be impossible to predict unless the coaches give early indications.

  • billholler

    How ironic that 3 players not being scratched just gave me a reason to not play NBA any more because there isn’t a late scratch? This Cavaliers debacle just screwed a lot of people that don’t have the ability to instantly change 150 lineups. If I had the hour that is currently left before the Cavs tip off to adjust my lineups, I might have a chance.

  • billholler

    And then George Hill listed as out 6 minutes after lock.

  • IronMonkey415

    The George Hill situation have killed.
    I called a fellow member a rat bastard and telling him today was my day.

    Turns out I had Hill in all lineups and it ruin me.

  • billholler

    @IronMonkey415 said...

    The George Hill situation have killed.
    I called a fellow member a rat bastard and telling him today was my day.

    Turns out I had Hill in all lineups and it ruin me.

    I was clearly venting half an hour ago but the Hill situation is a perfect example. He knew his damn toe was hurting this morning but never appeared any injury reports. I happened to have faded him but I also faded the Cavs big 3 just like a lot of others did.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    While Hill is definitely a late swap issue that could have been helped, I still blame the NBA for not realizing how valuable DFS is to the league.

    They need to change something. I’m not even venting as I have zero hill. It’s just dumb that someone has a toe hurting all day and nobody says a word.

  • billholler

    @bhdevault said...

    While Hill is definitely a late swap issue that could have been helped, I still blame the NBA for not realizing how valuable DFS is to the league.

    There in lies the problem. The next CBA should require a more detailed injury report and set lineups a little more in advance. At least in the NFL we know who’s playing at least a few hours in advance.

  • billholler

    Let me be the first to mention Jae Crowder who was never mentioned at any time today as being a possible scratch.

  • sambo58

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    I am done with NBA on DK. There are many reasons why but no late swap is one of them. Another thing I haven’t been able to comprehend is if the limit is 3% of the entries, why do they list all contests that way? Tonight felt like gambling either way. I rolled with the Cleveland value in cash but didn’t play any Cavs in tourneys.

  • spades4085

    My question is why is no one blowing up NBA officials twitter page, facebook etc.. Contact them about enacting a regulations about time constraints and try to get something changed. It would probably be more useful then coming here and bitching all the time, granted it really wont do anything. At least make a constructive effort to make change where you see it can be made

  • Zieg30

    • 758

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @SkateFiend said...

    Jimmy Butler getting hurt on the first play of the game is an inherent risk within the game. It’s not quite the same as a coach who unexpectedly rests or disciplines a player an hour before game time, which is cutting it close even at Yahoo.

    Any way you look at it, removing late swap removes the element of skill.

    And now that there is no late swap on DK Jimmy Butler getting scratched unexpectedly after lock, but before his game begins, is an inherent risk within the game.

    And, any way you look at it, removing late swap removes AN element skill, it does not remove THE element of skill.

  • Zieg30

    • 758

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @billholler said...

    Did you seriously just ask what if he got hurt after the game started? There has never been a time when we could change out players during the game but once upon a time we could prior to tip off. Ridiculous comment.

    His comment was hardly ridiculous. Why does the fact that one of the two major sites had a rule and changed the rule change the fundamental reality that there isn’t much difference (when it comes to labeling DFS a skill game) between a player getting scratched before a game begins and a player getting scratched shortly after a game begins. It may be more annoying because DK once permitted one to address the former, but it does not actually move the needle on whether DFS is a game of skill or gambling.

  • Zieg30

    • 758

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @billholler said...

    How ironic that 3 players not being scratched just gave me a reason to not play NBA any more because there isn’t a late scratch? This Cavaliers debacle just screwed a lot of people that don’t have the ability to instantly change 150 lineups. If I had the hour that is currently left before the Cavs tip off to adjust my lineups, I might have a chance.

    And yet figuring out whether the Cavs’ Big 3 were going to be scratched is not remotely distinct from trying to decide whether Kyle O’Quinn or Willy Hernangomez is going to get more minutes when Noah is scratched when it comes to the skill v. gambling debate.

    Frankly, I’d prefer that DK still had late-swap so that we had variety amongst the two major sites. I loved occasionally putting two of every lineup on DK so that I could mess around with one lineup if the a core set of players in the early games went off. But, overall, it simply isn’t accurate to suggest that no late-swap makes DFS gambling and that late-swap is a skill game.

    All it comes down to is a matter of player preference. No more, no less. My preference is in favour of late-swap. Many others prefer no late-swap, but they had Fanduel to play on, whereas we now have no real choice. Yahoo doesn’t count given their paltry prize pools.

  • Lathum

    The entertainment I get from a popular player being a late scratch is so much more than the entertainment I get from a good sweat. I honestly don’t care if I have the player in my line up. Watching people lose their minds is so much more fun, and I don’t need the money.

  • SkateFiend

    @Zieg30 said...

    And now that there is no late swap on DK Jimmy Butler getting scratched unexpectedly after lock, but before his game begins, is an inherent risk within the game.

    And, any way you look at it, removing late swap removes AN element skill, it does not remove THE element of skill.

    Freak accidents are risks inherent in a LIVE game. If Butler got clocked by a wayward soda can in the first quarter, most people will merely curse their bad luck.

    Risks and downside aren’t inherent when they’re imposed arbitrarily. I play Yahoo and I’m able to consistently respond to late breaking development. I took out most of the Cavs bench players when their starters were ended up playing, contrary to remarks made by their coach. I took a flier on Joe Johnson when George Hill was ruled out. On DK (apparently) none of this was possible after lock. Their entry fee went to waste even though they probably had time to save their lineups.

    I can accept that the NBA’s policy on announcing personnel decision isn’t DFS friendly as MLB. If the Thunder decide to rest Westbrook 20 minutes before game time due to some “toe problem” that I’ve NEVER heard of, there’s nothing I can do about it. Point is, late swap would allow me more time to respond to these developments.

    If you played 3 hitters from a game threatened by a thunderstorm, the potential zeros from their spots is on you. But that’s not what’s happening here. People who feel burned by no late swap had reasonable expectation that their players would be active. Sure, theoretically anyone can be out for any reason. But removing late swap potentially eliminates many viable lineups because the site gave players less time to change their lineups.

  • billholler

    Nothing Zieg30 said was the truth or even had an inkling of common sense.

  • billholler

    Yep, it took skill to avoid Jimmy Butler. The 30% that picked him were just bad players. It took skill to avoid all the Cavs value plays that everyone was touting because their coach said the regular starters would be resting. It took skill to avoid Conley and Gasol on a night where their combined ownership was about 40%. It took skill to avoid George Hill who had a sore friggin toe but no one knew but him. It took skill to avoid Jae Crowder in a good spot last night because he wasn’t even with the team and they didn’t tell anyone until after lock. It takes skill to predict whichever random Spur that is rested each night.

    I must be a terrible player.

  • Pick1979

    Bottom line losing late swap only hurt dedicated players. It was a bone headed move and the way the CORPORATE world works (as many here know) is there is a public reason we are doing this and a PRIVATE one (just like ANY Politicans positions on many topics). They are always to benefit the corporation and sometimes as luck would have it, it helps the people that have to follow said rule changes, but that is not the objective, often it is to their determent, no matter how many times the malarky for the change/law/rule was repeated.

    You vote with your money and organize a strike from playing/working etc to shift the leverage.

  • jimfred82

    • Blogger of the Month

    Honest question: Have any of you guys who keep getting hosed stopped or reduced your play?

  • KindGuy

    @jimfred82 said...

    Honest question: Have any of you guys who keep getting hosed stopped or reduced your play?

    That’s the problem, they dont. Instead they keep on giving DK their money and complain every time a late scratch hits them as if they didn’t know the rules before hand. It’s quite comical.

  • Zieg30

    • 758

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @billholler said...

    Yep, it took skill to avoid Jimmy Butler. The 30% that picked him were just bad players. It took skill to avoid all the Cavs value plays that everyone was touting because their coach said the regular starters would be resting. It took skill to avoid Conley and Gasol on a night where their combined ownership was about 40%. It took skill to avoid George Hill who had a sore friggin toe but no one knew but him. It took skill to avoid Jae Crowder in a good spot last night because he wasn’t even with the team and they didn’t tell anyone until after lock. It takes skill to predict whichever random Spur that is rested each night.

    I must be a terrible player.

    But I never said any of that took skill. I actually argued the exact opposite.

    I merely said that it was akin to not being able to know whether O’Quinn or Hermangomez were going to get more minutes a few nights ago. There’s a lot of uncertainty in the NBA, and any sport. Not being able to late swap certainly adds a bit more, but that’s it.

  • Zieg30

    • 758

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @billholler said...

    Nothing Zieg30 said was the truth or even had an inkling of common sense.

    You want late swap, I want late swap.

    We merely disagree about how the lack thereof actually alters the skill element of the game. I think its removal doesn’t change much, given the uncertainty already inherent to DFS. It just adds a bit to that uncertainty. You argue otherwise.

    There was no need for your blanket statement.

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