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  • lineupofpeace

    Just got an e-mail about this. Also giving players multiple position eligibility.

  • superstars92

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    @SkateFiend said...

    The absence of late swap surely affects the pros, but they might have hundreds of other lineups that doesn’t have a scratched player. If someone like Butler is ruled inactive 20 minutes before tipoff, I’m guessing something like 20% of the DK field will be essentially eliminated on the spot. The competition shrinks for the sharks.

    My NBA bankroll is at Yahoo is no more than 20 bucks. I only play 2,3 one dollar lineups a night. If I didn’t have late swap there, I would have lost 7,8 bucks easy, if not more. That’s a chunk of my bankroll. If NBA no late swap was industry standard I would have stopped playing anything other than low stake cash games.

    Now imagine people spending 20-30 bucks a night. There are probably a lot of amateurs who do that. People who played Butler on that night lost quite a bit of money.

    So first of all, let me say that I personally don’t prefer or not prefer the late swap. I am not a full-time player, but if there was a late swap option, due to the amount I put in, I think I would be dedicated enough to check news after lineup locks to see if one of my players gets scratched or another player that I don’t have gets scratched and change my lineups accordingly. However, I totally don’t mind not having the late swap because it’s an even playing field (no one has it), and it’s just healthier not to worry about lineups constantly.

    I am just making an argument from DK’s or FD’s perspective on why they don’t have late swaps, and why you guys shouldn’t care that much.

    So the statement you made actually isn’t about EV between an amateur/pro but rather about variance. I completely understand that if an amateur only submits 1 lineup (or like very few lineups), all of his lineups could be affected if a player he has gets scratched and he cannot make a late swap. However, let’s consider the average amateur player and the average pro. This is why I keep on mentioning average above.

    So let’s say for the sake of simplicity, the average amateur player only submits 1 lineup a night. There are 100 amateur players. Then lets say there is only 1 pro (just to make it simple) and he submits 100 lineups a night. Also, for the sake of simplicity, let’s say it costs 1 dollar to enter this tourney, and all 100 amateurs enter their 1 lineup and the pro enters his 100 lineups. You can change the numbers above, but I am just trying to make the math simple.

    Now, let’s say Jimmy Butler, who is 20 percent owned, is late scratched. Now, the distribution of Jimmy Butler between amateur players and pros shouldn’t be different. That is because the inherent “luck” of a pro and an amateur is not different. If the distribution is different over the long run, then that means pros have some kind of extra information that Butler might get late scratched, but clearly this is not the case (or this would be very, very bad).

    So 20 of the 100 amateurs now are screwed, but the pro also has 20 of his 100 lineups screwed. So in this case, yes, individually for those 20 amateurs, that kind of sucks. Like from an individual perspective, those 20 amateurs only had 1 lineup, and now there is no shot for them to win. However, the pro actually lost the same as the average amateur here. He also has 20 dead lineups. Of course, he also has 80 other lineups that do not have Jimmy Butler, but there are also 80 other amateurs who did not have Jimmy Butler and benefited. So the AVERAGE amateur and the AVERAGE pro are affected equally in my scenario. Of course, individually, that might not be the case, but that is just variance.

    Now, why do I say above that the average pro might actually benefit than the average amateur with a late swap. So go back to my scenario above. Let’s say there was a late swap. The pro is almost 100 percent guaranteed to swap Jimmy Butler out of his 20 lineups. However, NOT ALL 20 amateurs that had Jimmy Butler will swap Jimmy Butler out of their lineups. That is because not 100 percent of amateurs keep following news until tipoff of every game. So maybe some of them will (like people here), but not all of them will. As long as not all 20 out of 20 amateurs that had Jimmy Butler will swap Jimmy Butler out (which is most likely the case), then the average pro will benefit over the average amateur with the late swap.

    That is why the average pro actually benefits over the average amateur with the late swap and not having the late swap actually makes the playing field more even. Of course, on an individual basis, this is not the case, but we are talking about average basis here.

    Again, I am just trying to make a perspective on both sides here. Feel free to agree or disagree, but like I said, I don’t mind not having or having the late swap. I think technically the late swap would help me more because I would take advantage of it more than just “replacing an injured player”. I might do some other things like not only replacing the injured player but coming up with new lineups that take this news of this injured player into account. However, I also don’t mind not having the late swap either (and again keep in mind, I’ve lost a ton of money from Marc Gasol late scratch, KP’s 6:55 late scratch, etc. so I’m not even biased here).

  • Zieg30

    @superstars92 said...

    am just making an argument from DK’s or FD’s perspective on why they don’t have late swaps, and why you guys shouldn’t care that much.

    Wonderful, and instructive, post.

  • SkateFiend

    My point is that no late swap will hit casual (or amateurs) players harder because it’ll drain their smaller bankroll faster, and on nights when a star player is unexpectedly scratched, they can’t rely on 80 other lineups to try to minimize their losses.

    Pros are pros for a reason. They obviously have some model that allows them to win BIG money consistently. They do this for a living. 80 viable lineups from an individual pro who relied on some prediction model is probably more optimal than 80 disparate lineups from random casuals who might have chased name recognition or listened to “experts” that apparently disappoint members here nightly.

    If you have a formula that works and have the bankroll to put in hundreds of lineups a day, then you probably have enough resources to endure losses incurred by no late swap policy – or conversely win big when your lineups avoid late scratches. It’ll even out more smoothly in the long run. Someone in another thread said Maxdaulary sometimes goes weeks without winning anything, but he’ll eventually hit it big.

    If a few amateurs neglected to make changes DESPITE having late swap, it benefits everyone else in general. My Jimmy Butler-less lineups would still go up against hundreds of Jimmy Butler-less pro lineups in DK. At Yahoo player response to late breaking changes is nearly universal. To put it another way – with no late swap I risk losing money. With late swap, pros and everyone else can make the appropriate changes and salvage their lineups. That an unforeseeable amount of people might forget to swap in players is not enough of an advantage is to voluntarily forego increased choices to protect my investment.

  • messner4442

    I think we should be able to make substitutions for players who are reported injured and out after the starting time of tournaments. it only makes sense. hood was scratched after the games tipped off Wednesday night and I was stuck…..that has happened to me lots of times and I think it needs to stop. changes only should be able to be made if a player has an o next to his name.

  • joonyari22

    • Blogger of the Month

    i was on hood, got the alert at 6:58pm EST and was able to pivot last minute – lineup ended up being egregious anyway but that’s besides the point…that news did come out prior to lock.

  • terry1111111

    Well I don’t like it .. I think the late swap makes it interesting and allows us to be more involved don’t fix it if it ain’t broke.

  • juicetea22

    • Blogger of the Month

    We’ve had enough! Sites need to offer special late swaps for these reasons! It’s getting out of hand in regards to late scratches after lock! Allow customers to only late swap for those reasons! I have dumped too much $$ recently! When a guy like James gets taken out after lock it shortens the field by a great deal!

  • BRORANNOSAURUS_FLEX

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  • madchuck

    I may be in the minority but I actually like not having late swap. Nobody gets any competitive advantage because it effects everyone the same. When they used to have late swap, I would have to sit by my computer all night looking for updates. I would rather set my lineup and walk away. It makes like so much easier.

  • Baldeagle46

    They need contests just for the guys who do not like late swap. I want late swap. Sucks losing 40 and $50 because someone sits. Heck I cant win shit with swap or without it, but I’ve had plenty of lineups that looked very interesting til a player sits. Seems one sided to me. Lets favor the guys who have lifes! Jk.. There’s one think you don’t mess with is a man’s family and his money! No late swap is robbery!!

  • Baldeagle46

    It doesn’t affect everyone the same if you have a complete lu with no scraches .

  • Gfry3

    So to recap…Every sport on DK has late swap but NBA where it matters most and now even FD has late swap for baseball? Honestly one of the dumbest decisions ever. And yes DK, I have quit playing NBA on your site after the removal of late swap because of how stupid it was, but would love to come back if it came back.

  • w3stcoastoff3ns3

    @madchuck said...

    I may be in the minority but I actually like not having late swap. Nobody gets any competitive advantage because it effects everyone the same. When they used to have late swap, I would have to sit by my computer all night looking for updates. I would rather set my lineup and walk away. It makes like so much easier.

    In 2017 why are you sitting at your computer all night? Smartphone+twitter alerts has been clutch for me. I even have a smart watch now so I don’t have have to carry my phone on me. I just get a buzz when RG/Labs whoever sends a tweet out. I would like to have late swap but I have done fine without it.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    Mod Note

    Moving this topic off main as there’s a new topic concerning the late swap for MLB. No need to have multiple topics on late swap and this one is now rather old.

  • AVivier

    • Ranked #85

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    As a relative fish perspective when it comes to NBA, I got mixed (yet strong) feelings.

    I don’t play a lot of NBA at all, but of the 7-8 times I played heavy for me ($50-$150 in a night), 3 (4 including Durant) times they’ve been screwed by tip off, twice ( not including KD) 100% of my lineups.

    Sitting at work with $100 in lineups, finding out Hood is out, Rose is awol, etc… makes me not want anything to do with this again. It feels cheap and dirty. And somebody somewhere knows this info which isn’t available which feels I’m being cheated too.

    On the other hand, I have a wife, child and work. I wouldn’t play if it wasn’t for lock-in, because the base line for me wouldn’t be fair.

  • Dcompton

    Edited below as I had too many typos:)

  • Dcompton

    DK has given itself a huge unfair advantage over its users! Why aren’t more people angry about this? Last night TJ Warren was announced as being out 15 minutes after lineups locked and 2 hours before PHO game started!

    THAT is ridiculous!

    They’re reasoning behind why they do this is even more ridiculous:

    “We understand that this is a very polarizing issue for our users and that for every user who enjoys NBA more with late swap, there is another who is disappointed that we don’t offer it in NBA. Removing late swap allows more NBA fans to participate in DFS NBA regardless of their schedules or commitments during the long period of time during which games are starting. While we have no current plans to resume offering it in NBA at this time we will certainly revisit the decision in the off season or if the NBA institutes a uniform policy for announcing starters and injuries prior to the beginning of games.”

    Talking about user’s schedules? Really? Well that explanation doesn’t fly in cases like last night because it doesn’t matter when you’re working or what kind of commitments you have (LOL) or if you’re able to watch NBA alerts up until the very last second because no one could have seen that scratch coming! The only people who have an advantage in situations like this are users with crystal balls and DraftKings and the only people at a disadvantage in situations like this are ALL DK USERS!

    If it’s all about not giving an edge to DK users who can watch NBA alerts all day (like myself), their reasoning backfires because as I stated, it was announced 15 minutes after lineups locked.

    50.5% of users had Warren in their lineups in the 2 game late slate last night so that means 50.5% of users got ripped off and all those entry fees from all those lineups with big fat zeroes in them went into DK pockets!!

    Come on people! This is blatantly unfair and basically cheating!

    If a player is announced as being out before games lock and you put him in your lineup, that’s on you but if it’s announced way after lineups lock, that is on DK and they need to give people their entry fees back!

    They’re not keeping it fair for either type of player they mention in their explanation! They’re keeping it nice for themselves to get richer!

    They only did this after getting mixed up with FanDuel where I stopped playing because of the no swap BS. DK undoubtedly got a look at FD’s profits from entry fees they kept from poor players who get screwed and wanted in on it fast!

    They’re already under scrutiny in many states. It’s shocking that during this time they pulled the no swap stunt! More of you need to get ticked off and feel ripped off because this is SO WRONG it’s almost like stealing.

  • mikeer111

    They way I see it is someone knows Butler wasn’t playing last night before tip-off and then 20 minutes after it comes out on Rotoworld. With Twitter, etc these site have their sources at their fingertips. Pisses you off when it’s 40 minutes to tip-off and you can’t do shat. No one can tell me someone rather done fraudulently or not didn’t have the knowledge Butler was out. Either way this is a prime example of why late swap needs to be brought back.

  • auburn323

    You did it to cater to the pros!

  • Nosuckoutplz

    Can anyone confirm if this has finally be fixed/changed back to its original state or not? I thought I heard that it HAS, but I don’t have any concrete evidence like an email, or anything in the game lobby that says you can or can’t late swap. Thanks

  • damionismyname

    @Nosuckoutplz said...

    Can anyone confirm if this has finally be fixed/changed back to its original state or not? I thought I heard that it HAS, but I don’t have any concrete evidence like an email, or anything in the game lobby that says you can or can’t late swap. Thanks

    when making lineups you will see an alert on top saying “games lock at the time of the start” which means late swap will be on dk this year.

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