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  • LuckySpacePrincess

    Apologizing in advance for how lengthy this post is.

    Hi all,

    I’m not super familiar with DFS, other than what my boyfriend has told me over the past few months, so I wanted to ask you guys! My bf, let’s call him W, for now, has stopped picking up shifts at work to pursue his dream of becoming a DFS player full time. He basically went to work less and less and started playing more and more, until he didn’t really have a job. Do professional DFSers usually have day jobs? W keeps saying they don’t but nothing I read confirms that.

    I was never ok with DFS being W’s sole source of income, but he said “I didn’t believe in him” when I protested. He often lies about DFS, how many tournaments he’s playing vs. how many cash games, how much he made or lost, about paying his friends back, etc….We’re basically broke now but W says DFS is going to be our income, so he’s pursuing it. I’ve literally skipped meals, because he spends any cash we get playing. He says hard times will be over soon. W stopped paying rent and I’m afraid we’re going to lose our apartment if he doesn’t make this real income fast. When I bring it up he gets pissed. He slowly borrowed around $1000 from my account to deposit in FD and DK, and has slowly paid some of it back! (See my confusion?) But he’s also borrowed from his friends. He lost some of that money and one dude has even written him off because of it. Is this an addiction or not?

    I can’t tell because W works really hard grinding every day and often wins. He’s a self-proclaimed genius, with a lot of talent to back it up. The problem is, W rarely takes winnings out of DK or FD, he kiiiinda bets it again till he loses, then needs more. Is it normal to make deposits every day? He’s ranked in the top 1,500-2,000 players, and tells me this means he’s good enough to make this work. I can’t tell if he has a real shot, since W downplays losses and exaggerates achievements. Far as I can tell, he’s barely breaking even and still hasn’t hit a big win. He has skill, and I understand DFS isn’t all luck, but can it be relied on?

    What’s the chance he can do this professionally? Should I do more to help him succeed? What am I doing wrong? Or should I try asking him to self-exclude? Am I really being too controlling/nagging? Has anyone gone through this as a player or s/o? How did you fix it?

    Sorry if this is misplaced, I’m new here! Thanks for reading and advice would be appreciated. Trolls, plz stay under the bridge. ;)

    -LSP

  • ThatStunna

    • 72

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    • Ranked #62

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    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    You need to require that your SO is honest with you (and himself, in theory) on everything related to DFS. If he can’t do that, then everything else I could type wouldn’t matter. I will also state that the number of actual full-time professionals is much smaller than the number of people who think they could be an actual full-time professional. How often is “often wins”?

    You’re also acting like you’re married to the guy. He can’t borrow your money without your permission. If you do, it’s your responsibility to watch whatever happens to it and you’re the enabler in the situation. (Look into that term very carefully…) If you’re an equal in the relationship, you need to act like it. (If you were married to the guy, all of this still wouldn’t be okay for the record.)

    Also, skipping meals sucks. Feed yourself and let him feed himself from his winnings.

    (Serious lecture ends here.)

    Although I will not give him DFS advice, I will give him meal advice:

    -Rice is really cheap but pretty hard to live on. Soy sauce helps.
    -A 10 lb bag of potatoes lasts a very long time. Cut them into fries, cover them with vegetable oil, and bake them on foil for 40-50 minutes at 350 F.
    -Ramen is still much cheaper than many other options.
    -Pasta with a can of tomato sauce (I prefer meat sauce) is more of a luxury, but it’s still pretty cheap.

  • Lathum

    @billholler said...

    That statement is what furthered my conviction regarding my original opinion.

    I have to admit that jumped out at me as well.

  • tvsfrink

    What is even happening in this thread.

  • WidumBoise

    @draftcheat said...

    If your boyfriend is really ranked in the 1500-2000 range, he’s incredibly skilled at this game and should almost certainly be playing full time.

    I’ll have whatever your smoking.

  • WidumBoise

    @psualum said...

    This story feels like a troll imo

    Twas my initial thought, felt that way once I started reading the second paragraph.

  • WidumBoise

  • Olhausen

    @Ryazan said...

    why was this randomly said? jesus, get lost – can we get a ban on this, and whatever the original username of this thing is?

    Yep I saw this and I’m calling bullshit on it.

  • SkateFiend

    Please don’t tell your boyfriend something like “you’re a gambling addict so get professional help now” based strictly on feedback on this thread. Do not make potentially life changing decisions on the advice of strangers on the internet, even if they mean well and give you informed opinions. This is one of the worst mistakes you can make.

    I don’t know W’s side of the story, so I can’t judge him. If the more personal issues (like lying about his DFS success, compulsive borrowing) are true, then they should be resolved between you two or involve friends and qualified professionals with firsthand experience with your situation.

    Some people dream about playing the big leagues. Others might dream about becoming a star in Broadway or Hollywood films. Millions of students borrow gazillions of dollars to get arts degree. A DFS career isn’t any less “clean” than these long shot ambitions. People borrow money and fail to pay rent trying to nurse startup projects. But they’re all long shots. You just have to consider your situation and decide whether your boyfriend’s goals are something you can personally support.

  • anilprao88

    • 20

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    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

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    @MikeMineo said...

    #humblebrag? statistically, approximately only 14% of players are even profitable according to DK, so not sure who you’re referring to when stating it’s “easier than people make it out to be.” who is making it out to be more difficult than that, specifically?

    being profitable is certainly possible, though it’s not exactly easy, and if someone is ruining their lives to be in that 14% it’s not worth it.

    and in terms of people who SUBSTANTIALLY profit, man — that’s less than 5%, I’d reckon, with a lot of that depending on a handful of big GPP days throughout years of playing and considerable investments.

    Literally the guy I was basically responding to was making it out to be more difficult that that. Also some dude earlier in the thread was talking about math majors from prestigious schools, finite math, and how Riemann sums relate to definite integrals or something.

    “There is not a single person in existence that can make a living at this who doesn’t keep extremely detailed records of his investments, with notes and some form of analysis of his plays after the fact. Not one. If he cannot produce this, there is zero chance he could do this for a living.”

    This is the context in which my statement was made. That is absolutely ludicrous. If by keeping extremely detailed records of investments he means adding up account balances every couple of weeks and by some form of analysis of his plays after the fact he means looking at box scores then sure. Those are probably really good habits to have and I’m sure some people do that stuff, but I doubt the majority of DFS pros are doing that stuff on a regular basis. And it’s certainly possible to win without doing it.

    I’d also argue that with time and effort it probably isn’t very difficult to get into the top 14% of the entire population of people who partake in most activities. Those numbers include the thousands of extremely casual players that put in like 15 minutes of work, have a few dollars of action and treat it basically like the lottery. DFS is also something that in my experience does not have a steep learning curve.

    Sorry for derailing the thread.

  • Gqinxs

    • 244

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    • x2

      2016 DraftKings NFL KOTB Finalist

  • KillaChap

    @ThatStunna said...

    -Rice is really cheap but pretty hard to live on. Soy sauce helps.
    -A 10 lb bag of potatoes lasts a very long time. Cut them into fries, cover them with vegetable oil, and bake them on foil for 40-50 minutes at 350 F.
    -Ramen is still much cheaper than many other options.
    -Pasta with a can of tomato sauce (I prefer meat sauce) is more of a luxury, but it’s still pretty cheap.

    This is hilarious.

  • Messiah717

    @SkateFiend said...

    Please don’t tell your boyfriend something like “you’re a gambling addict so get professional help now” based strictly on feedback on this thread. Do not make potentially life changing decisions on the advice of strangers on the internet, even if they mean well and give you informed opinions. This is one of the worst mistakes you can make.

    I don’t know W’s side of the story, so I can’t judge him. If the more personal issues (like lying about his DFS success, compulsive borrowing) are true, then they should be resolved between you two or involve friends and qualified professionals with firsthand experience with your situation.

    Some people dream about playing the big leagues. Others might dream about becoming a star in Broadway or Hollywood films. Millions of students borrow gazillions of dollars to get arts degree. A DFS career isn’t any less “clean” than these long shot ambitions. People borrow money and fail to pay rent trying to nurse startup projects. But they’re all long shots. You just have to consider your situation and decide whether your boyfriend’s goals are something you can personally support.

    Telling somebody not to listen to bad advice and then proceeding to give bad advice is not helpful either. Borrowing money, failing to pay rent and skipping meals so someone can pursue a career in DFS is absurd.

  • kellykip

    @anilprao88 said...

    “There is not a single person in existence that can make a living at this who doesn’t keep extremely detailed records of his investments, with notes and some form of analysis of his plays after the fact. Not one. If he cannot produce this, there is zero chance he could do this for a living.”

    This is the context in which my statement was made. That is absolutely ludicrous. If by keeping extremely detailed records of investments he means adding up account balances every couple of weeks and by some form of analysis of his plays after the fact he means looking at box scores then sure. Those are probably really good habits to have and I’m sure some people do that stuff, but I doubt the majority of DFS pros are doing that stuff on a regular basis. And it’s certainly possible to win without doing it.

    Coming from a thoroughbred handicapping background, I know that without question a person cannot make a living in that profession without having extremely detailed records showing what their expected ROI is based on a large number of factors, and that after event analysis is mandatory. If this is not the case with DFS players – at least ones who have made their living from DFS being their job over a period greater than a couple of years, then I was wrong to overestimate the importance of this in DFS. I could see the argument that there are less moving parts in DFS. It definitely isn’t mandatory if someone’s goal is to just make a profit on it as a hobby,

  • ItzJamesFTW

    The term addiction doesn’t always need to directly represent a GLARING issue, you can be a gambling addict and not have it effect your daily finances, routine, etc. I think that it’s common for the term gambling addict to always carry the negative connotation, which in most cases is accurate though. I think that is getting off track a bit, and I agree with some other posters about this post sounding too accurate with jargon for OP to be a naive girlfriend.

    Regardless, yes this is a problem. You will not do this for a living and any time gambling gets in the way of your regular resources, you have a problem. Anytime you have to borrow money to gamble, it’s a problem. If you choose gambling over eating, it’s a problem. If you choose gambling over rent and a job, it’s a problem. No offense, but I don’t think I need to spell that out for anybody.

    A lot of us here are “gambling addicts”, but we know how to control it. Sounds like your “bf” does not.

  • Ross

    Edit –

    Update 3/3 – After talking with the OP we are going to unlock this thread. Please keep posts respectful and on topic.

  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    Well, like with any addict, the more you enable him, the more down the toilet the two of you will go. I suggest seeking professional help to help you with the discussions with your boyfriend. As for the top 1500-2000 player “ranking”, this has nothing to with net winnings, so he can’t use that as an accurate judgment of whether or not he is a good player.

  • jhorst52

    • 59

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    • Ranked #48

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    • x3

      2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    marry me

  • badlands92

    We’re all pretty silly when you think about. I respect the players that can donate an hour or more of their time on a regular basis and only play $2-5 a night. That’s some serious self control.

    We’re all chasing the same Top 20 spots in any tourney. Let’s take tonight’s 4 Point Play – 102,900 entries, and only 20 walk away with four figures. Heck, if you finish at spot #101 (isn’t that still like a fraction of 1%???) you get $75. 72% of entries will get shutout, and something like 98% of the “lucky winners” will double or triple their entry fee.

    Maybe I’m misinterpreting the numbers, but that seems like a losing formula for everyone but the very skilled max entry players. And I’m not knocking those guys like I used to (out of jealousy). Entering 150 times ($600) doesn’t guarantee a thing. It just ups your chances of covering more probable combinations. And maybe, if you’re lucky, you’ll finish in the top .001% and take home $75! ;)

  • Olhausen

    @badlands92 said...

    We’re all pretty silly when you think about. I respect the players that can donate an hour or more of their time on a regular basis and only play $2-5 a night. That’s some serious self control.

    We’re all chasing the same Top 20 spots in any tourney. Let’s take tonight’s 4 Point Play – 102,900 entries, and only 20 walk away with four figures. Heck, if you finish at spot #101 (isn’t that still like a fraction of 1%???) you get $75. 72% of entries will get shutout, and something like 98% of the “lucky winners” will double or triple their entry fee.

    Maybe I’m misinterpreting the numbers, but that seems like a losing formula for everyone but the very skilled max entry players. And I’m not knocking those guys like I used to (out of jealousy). Entering 150 times ($600) doesn’t guarantee a thing. It just ups your chances of covering more probable combinations. And maybe, if you’re lucky, you’ll finish in the top .001% and take home $75! ;)

    Self control? More like being a responsible adult. A few years ago when I first started playing I would play anywhere from 50-100$ a night because I could afford it and also it was a little or a lot easier to be profitable. Fast forward 2 years and it has become a lot harder to cash on a nightly basis plus I don’t have the same bankroll I did back then. So now I put about 5$ in play on DK and the same on fan duel but I still put in a few hours of research every night. I do this because my bills and family come first and it’s still fun no matter how much I have in play. I’d even argue it’s more fun as losing nights aren’t near as stressful and winning nights are even better because I end up with a few hundred bucks on only 10$ put in play.

  • badlands92

    @Olhausen said...

    Self control? More like being a responsible adult. A few years ago when I first started playing I would play anywhere from 50-100$ a night because I could afford it and also it was a little or a lot easier to be profitable. Fast forward 2 years and it has become a lot harder to cash on a nightly basis plus I don’t have the same bankroll I did back then. So now I put about 5$ in play on DK and the same on fan duel but I still put in a few hours of research every night. I do this because my bills and family come first and it’s still fun no matter how much I have in play. I’d even argue it’s more fun as losing nights aren’t near as stressful and winning nights are even better because I end up with a few hundred bucks on only 10$ put in play.

    Jeez, if my “winning nights” were a few hundred bucks off of $10, I’d be as happy as you are to stick with small entry fees. Reality is most winning nights for people playing $10 is more like $14. That’s my whole point. You can consistently win and be a break-even/losing player overall. Say 6 of 10 nights you win $15 off of $10 entries. You are up $30 (90 winnings – 60 entry fees). Those other 4 nights you get shut out on $40 entry fees. You are now down $10 in total despite a 60 winning %.

    Sure you can play with the numbers and make the assumption you will more than min-cash one of those nights, but the point remains almost nobody regularly cashes a “few hundred bucks” off of $10.

  • Roma315

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  • LuckySpacePrincess

    Sorry, I’m apparently too busy doing this

    Related: I decided to show W this thread. Surprisingly, hearing opinions from other players made him pay attention. We’re talking in a real way to problem-solve. So I’m still taken. Sorry, but I have to turn down your proposal. It’s a shame, I can tell how hard you worked on it 💍❤️😭

    But really though, thanks for not being a closet misogynist disguised as an internet identity detective. Like….girls can learn things. Its seriously so frustrating to hear that I “must be a man” because I write with even the slightest hint of competence. I don’t fit into your small worldview, therefore I don’t exist? Please imagine for a minute how would feel to be so underestimated, that a group of people accuse you of lying about your identity because the concept of “abbreviations” is supposed to be too advanced for people like you to understand.

    I have ladyparts, not a learning disability. I don’t hear guys talking about sports and start menstruating so hard that I have to leave the room. It’s 2017, you can grasp the idea that being around something all the time causes one to pick up the associated lingo like DFS, FD, DK, or “grinding”. I dont know much about fantasy. I don’t know how to place bets, examine stats, or create a lineup. But I went to elementary school and learned how to use context clues. My boobs didn’t get in the way of that.

    (Ps jhorst52, you’re cool, I was using the all-inclusive “you”, not aiming that mini-rant at you) Thanks for all the advice and support. I’m out.

  • joe123

    This thread is getting back to stupid and off topic. Time to lock it up and forget about it

  • psualum

    I can confirm JHorst spent many long hours working out all available options, figuring out outcome ranges for each proposal type, and landed on the serious yet succinct “marry me”.

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