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  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    On behalf of DraftKings, we are proud to announce our newly created Community team. Our group was formed to listen, engage, and advocate for the player community at large while championing our industry leading commitment to a world class game experience. We are here to represent your feedback inside the walls of DraftKings, because your ideas can help us deliver an increasingly better experience for all players. You can read our introductory post here: https://rotogrinders.com/threads/draftkings-cm-is-now-on-rotogrinders-2496208

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  • AVivier

    • Ranked #84

      RG Tiered Ranking

    Enjoying the 150 lineup in the QA for the US Open. Look forward to it if it’s there for the NFL. I think they work well as a special thing and not every possible applicable contest, which seems like what is going now.

    The 20 max was also a positive move. There’s room for both of these.

    Thanks for participating here.

  • Zieg30

    @blenderhd said...

    …but feel free to continue thinking that someone can stack every single team with 150 bullets.

    You didn’t actually respond to an argument Mike291 made.

    Mike291didn’t say anything about covering all the bases, he merely said that an entrant entering 150 entries could stack all the teams on a 15 game slate, and they can. It won’t be comprehensive, but it would be possible. Your own response proved that you can stack every single team on a 15-game slate with 150 bullets (or, rather, 120).

    And I would guess that Mike 291 is also likely correct that ownership is a bit more spread out in 150-max entry GPPs than 20-max. It depends on how the MMEs’ presence can distort the ownership (maybe there aren’t enough of them to truly dent the ownership totals) in a huge GPP.

    In NHL DFS, at least, when the unlikely teams do well, it is typically MME lineups that dominate as they have combinations that many others who put in fewer lineups wouldn’t have. Many MMEs are willing to add more contrarian lineups than those with fewer lineups (this isn’t exclusive, as, for example, sometimes even those entering a single entry will use a contrarian lineup, but it is a general rule).

  • blenderhd

    • 433

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    • Ranked #59

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    @Zieg30 said...

    You didn’t actually respond to an argument Mike291 made.

    Mike291didn’t say anything about covering all the bases, he merely said that an entrant entering 150 entries could stack all the teams on a 15 game slate, and they can. It won’t be comprehensive, but it would be possible. Your own response proved that you can stack every single team on a 15-game slate with 150 bullets (or, rather, 120).

    But isn’t “stacking every team” to be the equivalent of “covering all bases” in this argument? Sure, if you want to select the same 4 players per team and make 4×2s, it’s 120 lineups. But if you miss the player who HRs and have the 0-4 guy instead, that team stack is pretty much burned for GPP winning upside. On top of that, you’d still have to make all those lineups with the same two pitchers – so if your SP2 gets shelled, now all of your lineups are dead. Even with 150 lineups, you still have to take very distinct stands on players or teams.

    I understand the concept being portrayed in the argument, though. With only 20 entries max, you have to make 7.5 times tighter the stands compared to 150 entries. I get it, you’re right, less options per user. The incorrect assumption you’re making, however, is that just because people have less entries doesn’t mean everyone is taking the same stands. Whether it’s 1200 users putting in 20 lineups each or 160 users putting in 150 lineups each (both equalling 24,000 total contest entries), the composition of the lineups doesn’t change in regards to your decision of who to play. You’re competing against lineup #1638 and #7526 regardless if they were entered by separate users or from the same single user.

  • Zieg30

    @blenderhd said...

    But isn’t “stacking every team” to be the equivalent of “covering all bases” in this argument? Sure, if you want to select the same 4 players per team and make 4×2s, it’s 120 lineups. But if you miss the player who HRs and have the 0-4 guy instead, that team stack is pretty much burned for GPP winning upside. On top of that, you’d still have to make all those lineups with the same two pitchers – so if your SP2 gets shelled, now all of your lineups are dead. Even with 150 lineups, you still have to take very distinct stands on players or teams.

    I understand the concept being portrayed in the argument, though. With only 20 entries max, you have to make 7.5 times tighter the stands compared to 150 entries. I get it, you’re right, less options per user. The incorrect assumption you’re making, however, is that just because people have less entries doesn’t mean everyone is taking the same stands. Whether it’s 1200 users putting in 20 lineups each or 160 users putting in 150 lineups each (both equalling 24,000 total contest entries), the composition of the lineups doesn’t change in regards to your decision of who to play. You’re competing against lineup #1638 and #7526 regardless if they were entered by separate users or from the same single user.

    With respect to your first paragraph, I agree with everything you’re saying, apart from the first line. You’re right that it’s not good strategy. I’m only saying that Mike291 wasn’t making the argument you responded to. He merely was saying that it was possible while he was making a larger point about how larger entry tournaments can distort ownership across teams.

    With respect to your second paragraph, I believe that those putting in more entries are likelier than those putting in fewer to “reach” a bit with their entries. As I mentioned before, this isn’t always the case, as sometimes even someone putting in even a single entry will put in a very contrarian lineup, but I believe the tendency to expand ones’ team pool to less ideal teams occurs more frequently with those putting in 150 entries than those putting in 20. And thus in a GPP with many entrants putting in 150 lineups, you will see at least some level of higher ownership on contrarian teams than you would in a GPP with no one putting in 150 lineups. All teams will be owned in almost any GPP, but there may be more combinations and more entries with those teams when you have entrants putting in 100+ lineups. I can’t prove this, but it has held up at least anecdotally in NHL DFS.

  • caleibold

    @mike291md said...

    The entry limits were started because people weren’t happy with the MaxDelury style play

    I’d just like to point out here that I know several people who play far less or none at all now because they can’t play MME above 20 entries without playing over $1000. I’d argue there are easily as many who dislike the 20-max limits and the resulting smaller contests as there are people who’ve convinced themselves that 20-entry limits and smaller contests are better for them.

    DK throwing those people a bone with the mini max contest is awesome, but seeing it fill lightning quick every day just makes me wonder if there was ever much of a point to adding the 20-entry limits across the board for low price points.

  • scsa1998

    Any fear of Mike Francesa trying to come up with a new gambling idea.
    https://twitter.com/BackAftaThis/status/1006699469281349632

  • blenderhd

    • 433

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    • Ranked #59

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    @Zieg30 said...

    With respect to your second paragraph, I believe that those putting in more entries are likelier than those putting in fewer to “reach” a bit with their entries. As I mentioned before, this isn’t always the case, as sometimes even someone putting in even a single entry will put in a very contrarian lineup, but I believe the tendency to expand ones’ team pool to less ideal teams occurs more frequently with those putting in 150 entries than those putting in 20. And thus in a GPP with many entrants putting in 150 lineups, you will see at least some level of higher ownership on contrarian teams than you would in a GPP with no one putting in 150 lineups. All teams will be owned in almost any GPP, but there may be more combinations and more entries with those teams when you have entrants putting in 100+ lineups. I can’t prove this, but it has held up at least anecdotally in NHL DFS.

    Yes, I happen to agree with this. But I factor this as more the poor GPP strategy by users rather than specifically the byproduct of the contest entry limits.

    A wrong assumption was made previously, since I’m somewhat defending 150 entry limits, that I’m one who max enters, but I don’t. Typically I can enter up to 40-60 lineups depending on the slate, but often do just fine with 20. Fading chalk, finding leverage spots & good upside correlations is still the most beneficial approach to win a large field GPP (as opposed to simply min cashing) regardless of how many lineups you’re playing. I’ll go with lower-owned stacks with 20 entries as much as I would with 150, the only difference would be adding an extra batter from that team, adding an additional one-off player, or another SP into the mix as well. Trying to stack every single team with thin exposure is just -EV.

  • TheRealJosh5

    With the new gambling laws, will DK be bringing back College dfs?

  • biffrenylds

    Is there a brighter future for the all-day MLB slates? Why have the category if the only thing offered is tiny double-ups?

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    The upcoming week of featured MLB main sets are scheduled as follows:

    _Please Note: DraftKings reserves the right to revise, change, alter, or cancel the schedule described above at any time – but we do intend to follow these plans. _

    Notable plans:

    • Thursday’s $.50 MLB mini-MAX features a $20K guarantee, 3000x to first place, 120x to 10th place.
    • On Monday we plan to feature a big $5, which means there will be no “Low +” category contest that day. The big $5 will be paired with a featured $1 contest.

    Lets us know your thoughts RotoGrinders – does this advance notice of our lower-stakes headliner gpp schedule help you to better plan your week?

    PS: DK Community Team has been very busy working on new initiatives for the player community, we will be back soon to answer questions.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    For tomorrow only, we decided to post 3 “Main” sets vs the typical Early + Main that we generally run on days with early games. We are taking this new approach to our contest mix due to the spacing of MLB’s scheduled start times on Saturday.

    • 1pm – 3 game “Turbo” set + a Classic set that features all 15 games for the day, but the contests will be slightly smaller than normal
    • 4pm – 8 game “Early” set that will be our biggest contests of the day
    • 8pm – 4 game “Main” set

    So please remember the 4PM set on Saturday, we hope everyone enjoys this one-time-only expanded MLB day!

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • PigskinaBlanket

    • 122

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    • Ranked #22

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2016 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    Went to check it out, but not posted yet,

  • biffrenylds

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    For tomorrow only, we decided to post 3 “Main” sets vs the typical Early + Main that we generally run on days with early games. We are taking this new approach to our contest mix due to the spacing of MLB’s scheduled start times on Saturday.

    • 1pm – 3 game “Turbo” set + a Classic set that features all 15 games for the day, but the contests will be slightly smaller than normal
    • 4pm – 8 game “Early” set that will be our biggest contests of the day
    • 8pm – 4 game “Main” set

    So please remember the 4PM set on Saturday, we hope everyone enjoys this one-time-only expanded MLB day!

    - DraftKings Community Team

    Thanks!

  • Babelito84

    Awful idea – well , sneaky idea for you guys to rake another chunk of action. I’m of the mindset of the fewer the slates in a day the better. Would much rather see big contests tied to one slate .

  • sirrobert6

    • Blogger of the Month

    You guys really hurt the WC today.
    Three game slates are an absolute joke compared to four game, hence, the salaries are not worth playing today, period.

  • nickfromcwe

    • 929

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    • Ranked #71

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    @TheRealJosh5 said...

    With the new gambling laws, will DK be bringing back College dfs?

    I have been forgetting to ask this question. My assumption is that states could enact gambling laws that prohibit amateur betting, but for the states that do not, will it be something that will be revived? It was starting to gain traction and I think it could be a larger segment of business, and I think Showdown games could work really well in CFB as much as I hate them. The even bigger question, with all of this taking place, is there really anything to gain by DFS companies in trying to appease the NCAA? Even if the laws do not get passed in time for the start of the season, does the NCAA really have anything they can hold DFS companies to the fire for?

  • tamparoor

    I only play mma and the main contest is still 150 entries which is ridiculous in mma. Especially with all the cancelled fights. It’s the same max entry players winning every week. Why not just try out a big single entry contest for one week. For once try and do something for the average player. Stop catering to the sharks so much they have won enough already. Or keep the 150 contest and just add a big single entry along with it.

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

    • 268

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    @nickfromcwe said...

    I have been forgetting to ask this question. My assumption is that states could enact gambling laws that prohibit amateur betting, but for the states that do not, will it be something that will be revived? It was starting to gain traction and I think it could be a larger segment of business, and I think Showdown games could work really well in CFB as much as I hate them. The even bigger question, with all of this taking place, is there really anything to gain by DFS companies in trying to appease the NCAA? Even if the laws do not get passed in time for the start of the season, does the NCAA really have anything they can hold DFS companies to the fire for?

    I think there used to be when DFS was on the brink of extinction and they needed to get rid of any resistance…..but not anymore. I guarantee they could run really nice tournaments in states with non-regulated DFS laws on the books. Certainly larger than WNBA/Euro Hoops/Soccer. They are in a lawsuit with college players about likeness issues which COULD be the very reason why they don’t. But then again….they’ve been in litigation w/ IL & TX for a while now and they decided to continue to run games in those states. Would be incredible if they surprised us and offered again this fall.

  • nickfromcwe

    • 929

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    • Ranked #71

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    @db730 said...

    I think there used to be when DFS was on the brink of extinction and they needed to get rid of any resistance…..but not anymore. I guarantee they could run really nice tournaments in states with non-regulated DFS laws on the books. Certainly larger than WNBA/Euro Hoops/Soccer. They are in a lawsuit with college players about likeness issues which COULD be the very reason why they don’t. But then again….they’ve been in litigation w/ IL & TX for a while now and they decided to continue to run games in those states. Would be incredible if they surprised us and offered again this fall.

    I am still hopeful they will. They really only needed the NCAA to lay off when everything was going on with NY and they did not need more of a headache. I would be hopeful that if they did it, they would tell us a few months in advance. CFB is much different than other sports where you have 4x the amount of teams to research. I am still holding my breath that something will happen positively.

  • TeamTwerk

    Well done on the Super Knuckleball today! Perfect. I’ll be putting more action in today than any other day this season. Please run this contest as much as possible ( preferably every day)

    Edit: Not quite perfect. First place is far too big but still way better than the tiny Rally or 20 max any day .

  • edgelesscart

    • 561

      RG Overall Ranking

    @TeamTwerk said...

    Well done on the Super Knuckleball today! Perfect. I’ll be putting more action in today than any other day this season. Please run this contest as much as possible ( preferably every day)

    Edit: Not quite perfect. First place is far too big but still way better than the tiny Rally or 20 max any day .

    Funny, I was thinking just the opposite, that this was one of the worst structures they’ve had all season. Beat 71,342 entries: get 6 figures. Beat 71,335 entries: get 500 bucks, half of one percent of first place. I hope they never run it again. If I played and took 8th place I’d look to stick my head in an oven.

  • timgodd375

    @edgelesscart said...

    Funny, I was thinking just the opposite, that this was one of the worst structures they’ve had all season. Beat 71,342 entries: get 6 figures. Beat 71,335 entries: get 500 bucks, half of one percent of first place. I hope they never run it again. If I played and took 8th place I’d look to stick my head in an oven.

    Totally agree.. terrible structure… the quality of the structure of a tournament in capped due to the size of rake so rake needs to come down.. But a perfect 300k prize pool (with current rake) to me would be
    1st 25k
    2nd 20k
    3rd 15k
    4th 10k
    5th 7.5k
    6th 6k
    7th 5k
    8th 4K
    9th 3,250
    10th 2,500

    Then pay out top 12-15% where 10x your money is about top 2.5% of field

  • redskinsnut

    This is hilarious. A thread was created to have grinders give feedback to what they would like to see improved at Draft Kings. Number one request? Change the top heavy payout structure. DK’s response? The most obnoxious and top heavy contest yet! Why don’t they just make it winner take all parade whoever takes first place like a lottery winner?

  • TeamTwerk

    @edgelesscart said...

    Funny, I was thinking just the opposite, that this was one of the worst structures they’ve had all season. Beat 71,342 entries: get 6 figures. Beat 71,335 entries: get 500 bucks, half of one percent of first place. I hope they never run it again. If I played and took 8th place I’d look to stick my head in an oven.

    I’m not happy about the payout structure but I am happy about the better sizing. 71k entries and it still filled an hour early. I hope they don’t go back to the 16k entry rally tomorrow. The higher the # of entries the more diluted the 6k or whatever it is of mass entry pro lineups that will join.

  • hendog

    • 371

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    • Ranked #17

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    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Another week of awful golf structures… It seems like the policy is big GPPs pay out 20-25% to first and the smaller ones pay out 5-7% to first. If you’re going to have such a wide range, it should be other way around. Do you have two different teams doing the contest structures? It feels like there is one team in charge of the smaller GPPs, and they are all on board with the flatter payouts thing and have even taken it too far. Then there is the other team doing the big GPPs that is just trying to get the first prize payout as large as possible. Enough. Compromise already.

    Going through the contest list I feel like Goldilocks: “Too hot…too cold… too hot… too cold…” But the “just right” moment never comes, only disappointment.

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