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  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    On behalf of DraftKings, we are proud to announce our newly created Community team. Our group was formed to listen, engage, and advocate for the player community at large while championing our industry leading commitment to a world class game experience. We are here to represent your feedback inside the walls of DraftKings, because your ideas can help us deliver an increasingly better experience for all players. You can read our introductory post here: https://rotogrinders.com/threads/draftkings-cm-is-now-on-rotogrinders-2496208

    Now it’s your chance – what would you like to know? Do you have a suggestion you would like to share? We will do our best to answer all honest and respectful questions you post in this thread, in turn we hope to help players like you have a better understanding of how the world’s largest fantasy sports ecosystem works. Please allow us some time before responding to your questions and comments, you deserve well thought out answers – and that takes time.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • lpdev

    • 256

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #37

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @redskinsnut said...

    This is hilarious. A thread was created to have grinders give feedback to what they would like to see improved at Draft Kings. Number one request? Change the top heavy payout structure. DK’s response? The most obnoxious and top heavy contest yet! Why don’t they just make it winner take all parade whoever takes first place like a lottery winner?

    There are a variety of people that play DFS and not everyone wants the same thing. As evidence, this contest you deem awful filled 70K+ entries well before lock. So lets take a single contest on a single day and interpret that as the response from DraftKings. Or you could try being more reasonable/less of a whinebag.

  • redskinsnut

    @lpdev said...

    There are a variety of people that play DFS and not everyone wants the same thing. As evidence, this contest you deem awful filled 70K+ entries well before lock. So lets take a single contest on a single day and interpret that as the response from DraftKings. Or you could try being more reasonable/less of a whinebag.

    I am pointing out that the payout structure sucks. Just because it is popular doesn’t mean the payout doesn’t suck. It is essentially a lottery. And DFS was supposedly a game of skill. By the way there are a lot of “whinebags” in this thread who see it the same way.

  • hendog

    • 371

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #17

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Yeah, I mean, of course DraftKings is taking many factors into account in terms of contest structures, etc. They also probably have some estimates in terms of the breakdown of different types of users in the different types of contests. I don’t know if the people who grind GPPs and care about lowering variance while retaining upside are 1% of the GPP user base or 50%. But DK has indicated that they do want to take RGers feedback into account regardless of the percentage of the user base that we represent. We have to understand that they’re not going to do what we want all the time, or even most of the time, but that is no reason to hold back from expressing our discontent (emphatically when appropriate, but respectfully). After all, they did ask our opinion. We must continue to advocate for ourselves and attempt to hold them accountable.

    More specifically, I’m sure part of the problem is the inelasticity of some types of players. Many grinders I’m sure would prefer a certain type of contest but they are going to put some volume in regardless. Maybe their volume fluctuates based on the attractiveness of the contests, but not as much as the casual player who just looks at the top prize payout and doesn’t play at all if they don’t like it. Therefore, in order to maximize the profit of each slate, DK is going to focus on what attracts the casual player. I suspect there are more wrinkles to the story, but I imagine that is the primary obstacle to better payout structures.

    This Community Team initiative indicates that DK is at least in part realizing that they should not always focus on short-term value. It’s a promising step but not clear yet how much they are really behind it. In any case I would speculate that some leeway has been given to experiment with the smaller GPPs but the bigger ones seem to be mostly off limits for now. I personally am withholding judgment until NFL season comes around but in the meantime I will continue to complain as long as I am dissatisfied with my GPP options.

  • lpdev

    • 256

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    • Ranked #37

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @redskinsnut said...

    I am pointing out that the payout structure sucks.

    Definitely not a good payout structure, but the $5 entry with a $100K prize is good for marketing and attracting casual players. My point is that they have had a contest like this only a few times this season. It’s not the norm and the overall response from DK thus far has been good. They have added the entry level mass multi-entry contest that has been much needed for so long. The $1 mini-MAX has a solid and fairly consistent structure for what it is. The $20 3-entry contest they added is also available daily and has a good payout structure.

  • TheRealJosh5

    I only asked it because one, I miss it, Only got the taste of cfball dfs the last year it ran.. And I seen Yahoo is now going to offer season long this season which is a surprise since it’s never been offered by any of the big season long sites before.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    @tamparoor said...

    I only play mma and the main contest is still 150 entries which is ridiculous in mma. Especially with all the cancelled fights. It’s the same max entry players winning every week. Why not just try out a big single entry contest for one week. For once try and do something for the average player. Stop catering to the sharks so much they have won enough already. Or keep the 150 contest and just add a big single entry along with it.

    Generally speaking, more entries directly correlates with bigger GPP prize pools. Unfortunately, there are not enough players to support the huge guaranteed prize pools that our customers would want to experience if we featured a single entry MMA contest.

    Instead of running a small single entry, we have chosen to promote a 3-Max limited entry option to encourage a prize pool that is somewhere between 1.5x and 2x as big as a single entry prize pool.

    I’m not happy about the payout structure but I am happy about the better sizing. 71k entries and it still filled an hour early. I hope they don’t go back to the 16k entry rally tomorrow. The higher the # of entries the more diluted the 6k or whatever it is of mass entry pro lineups that will join.

    Another week of awful golf structures… It seems like the policy is big GPPs pay out 20-25% to first and the smaller ones pay out 5-7% to first. If you’re going to have such a wide range, it should be other way around. Do you have two different teams doing the contest structures? It feels like there is one team in charge of the smaller GPPs, and they are all on board with the flatter payouts thing and have even taken it too far. Then there is the other team doing the big GPPs that is just trying to get the first prize payout as large as possible. Enough. Compromise already.

    A very top-heavy payout structure weighted towards first place money may be used by our team to attract the large numbers of players necessary for massive prize pools. This type of structure, in conjunction with a big guarantee, is what attracts the majority of players to enter a contest.

    PS: We have a full-time crew aligned by sport verticals that allows us to promote interactions across the mix of contests each day. These teams are aligned by sport rather than contest size.

    There are a variety of people that play DFS and not everyone wants the same thing. As evidence, this contest you deem awful filled 70K+ entries well before lock.

    We are impressed, you seem to have a good understanding of the ecosystem, good example – but as you pointed out that’s just one contest, our analysts focus on the big picture.

    In the end, we are trying to fill big featured GPPs. No matter what approach we use, there will be a segment of users who will disagree with how we achieve our goals, but it’s really just about driving customers to help us build GPPs with big prize pools. Big, top heavy first place prizes tend to fill, we would hope everyone agrees that is a good thing – but we accept that there will be differing opinions on how we achieve that goal.

    DK has indicated that they do want to take RGers feedback into account regardless of the percentage of the user base that we represent. We have to understand that they’re not going to do what we want all the time, or even most of the time, but that is no reason to hold back from expressing our discontent (emphatically when appropriate, but respectfully). After all, they did ask our opinion.

    We review everyone’s feedback – not just RG’s – and correlate it with the extensive contest entry data we have available. Using the feedback obtained, we work to find compromise whenever possible. The recent roll out of 2x min-cash is a good example of a situation where we found a middle ground and applied it where it makes sense.

    You’re also right, everyone is welcome to an opinion. We embrace the diversity of ideas across players from all walks of life; all opinions have validity. We hope that people who talk with us in this forum take into account the needs of the entire player community, rather than solely presenting ideas that benefit them. That said, we do understand and appreciate that some comments are driven by personal need and we respect those equally.

    While interacting within the community we hope that players learn from the experience. In time, we hope these truthful responses reinforce how our company can be trusted with the great responsibility to oversee the world’s largest DFS ecosystem for our customers.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • hendog

    • 371

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #17

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    A very top-heavy payout structure weighted towards first place money may be used by our team to attract the large numbers of players necessary for massive prize pools. This type of structure, in conjunction with a big guarantee, is what attracts the majority of players to enter a contest.

    I understand these dynamics, but I also hope that you could more often compromise this consideration with the other considerations that you are making. This week in PGA if you look through all the GPPs with at least 1000 entries, you have three with $100,000 to first and then the next biggest first-place prize is $4,000. That is an enormous gap.

    I think there are a lot of players out there who care about both flatter payouts AND prize pool size, and it’s disappointing when we have to choose one or the other. We’re well aware that these two considerations are at odds against each other, but we would like to see more compromises instead of each GPP committing 100% to one consideration or the other.

  • hendog

    • 371

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #17

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    In the end, we are trying to fill big featured GPPs. No matter what approach we use, there will be a segment of users who will disagree with how we achieve our goals, but it’s really just about driving customers to help us build GPPs with big prize pools. Big, top heavy first place prizes tend to fill, we would hope everyone agrees that is a good thing – but we accept that there will be differing opinions on how we achieve that goal.

    If it’s just about big prize pools then I guess I’m beating a dead horse and there’s no hope of change. I’m not trying to tell you how to achieve that goal—I don’t have access to that data so I’m not able to give an informed opinion. Rather, I’m trying to encourage you to consider secondary goals, health of the ecosystem and satisfaction of long-term players that pay a lot of rake. My last few posts have been needling you because you claim to share these goals—and I believe you. Yet when it comes to big GPPs it appears that other considerations take complete precedence. You’ve now confirmed that suspicion.

    Edit: for the record I do appreciate your presence here, as well as your responses, and I don’t question their veracity. I hope that’s clear.

  • Zieg30

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    Big, top heavy first place prizes tend to fill, we would hope everyone agrees that is a good thing – but we accept that there will be differing opinions on how we achieve that goal.

    Do you have data suggesting that big GPPs providing a more moderate top-end payout of 10-12% of the pool to first place don’t fill (say, a $400,000 GPP offering $40,000 or $50,000 to first)? I don’t see how you would given that such a thing is almost never offered.

    Frankly, I would think the size of the GPP attracts casual users, rather than the top-end payout, and when you’ve typically offered a more reasonable top-end payout it has been in smaller GPPs, so your data is likely skewed.

    Regardless, even if I’m wrong, I would think you could throw the sizable section of your user base who prefer non-lottery-style top end payouts a bone and schedule a large GPP with a 10-12% payout to first place on even a rare occasion. The all or nothing approach DK takes with its large GPPs seems misplaced. Whenever you offer up something more reasonable, it’s only in small GPPs many of us aren’t interested in anyway.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    @hendog said...

    for the record I do appreciate your presence here, as well as your responses, and I don’t question their veracity. I hope that’s clear.

    Thank you hendog, we really appreciate that!

    - Steven & Christie, DraftKings Community Team

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    WANTED: We are looking for 6 people who are willing to volunteer 20 minutes of their time while representing their fellow players as part of a research project coordinated by the DraftKings Community Team this week.

    If you would like to volunteer, please let us know by responding in this thread. We will select six volunteers that best represent the player community at large, if you are chosen you will get a private message confirming the selection in your RotoGrinders inbox.

    We would like to thank everyone who wishes to volunteer in advance. The feedback gathered from these calls will help us provide direction for the future of DraftKings, for the greater good of all players.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • britdevine

    • 2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I’m game to chat again

  • Zieg30

    I’d be happy to contribute to the project.

  • thecpkid

    im down

  • IlliniTwig

    I’m available

  • vino24

    I’d be willing to volunteer

  • hendog

    • 371

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #17

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Always down.

  • KindGuy

    Terrible job with the $8 Rally Cap sizing today. Filled more than an hour before lock. 7 game slate and nothing else going on tonight means just a $110K prize pool? Epic fail.

  • DefinitelyMiami

    I’d like to volunteer

  • nickfromcwe

    • 929

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #71

      RG Tiered Ranking

    Im game

  • eperson911

    I was wondering, how does DK decide which contests to create satellites for? I like to play $3 – $5 per entry. I am a big fan of the satellites for the $3 PGA Birdie. Why not have sats into $3 – $5 contests in other sports?

    Thanks.

  • thehazyone

    RG Contributor

    • Blogger of the Month

    I talked with Matt Kalish last time he put out a call to speak with people – would love the opportunity to offer my insight again.

  • bfwl3434

    I’m happy to participate

  • blenderhd

    • 433

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #59

      RG Tiered Ranking

    I play a significant volume specializing in a more niche sport, so I’d be down to chat to offer feedback from that perspective.

  • Russthabus26

    Why was there a .50c minimax advertised for tomorrow and then it mysteriously changed itself to a $1? For MLB.

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