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  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    On behalf of DraftKings, we are proud to announce our newly created Community team. Our group was formed to listen, engage, and advocate for the player community at large while championing our industry leading commitment to a world class game experience. We are here to represent your feedback inside the walls of DraftKings, because your ideas can help us deliver an increasingly better experience for all players. You can read our introductory post here: https://rotogrinders.com/threads/draftkings-cm-is-now-on-rotogrinders-2496208

    Now it’s your chance – what would you like to know? Do you have a suggestion you would like to share? We will do our best to answer all honest and respectful questions you post in this thread, in turn we hope to help players like you have a better understanding of how the world’s largest fantasy sports ecosystem works. Please allow us some time before responding to your questions and comments, you deserve well thought out answers – and that takes time.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • SkateFiend

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    While we do understand the point of your post, we think bigez952 summed up our thoughts rather well. Our pricing can change as the season evolves, it is part of the skill factor of the game.

    I min cash much more consistently at Yahoo, and I’m not more skilled on that site compared to DK.

    It’s considerably easier to field an respectable lineup AND go safe on pitching on the other two sites. My problem with DK pricing is that you have virtually no one usable under 3,000, and it also (apparently) weighs upside and or track record way more than the competition. You have Randall Grichuck and Adam Eaton at 4,000. Teoscar Hernandez is at 4,500. That just doesn’t make sense to me.

    On FD and Yahoo I could go cheap at the corners with someone like Eric Hosmer (depending on matchup) and spread the savings elsewhere. No chance at DK – he’s 3,900. So if I played someone like Blake Snell and Paxton, even second tier options like Hosmer or Miguel Andujar would take up chunks of the budget and I would be forced to spend 2,800-3,300 on OFs. Unless I just completely punt the middle infield.

    Everyone is just sort unreasonably expensive at DK. In some slates you definitely feel the pinch and I HAVE to pick certain players. Can there be skill if I don’t have room to be creative?

  • bigez952

    @SkateFiend said...

    I min cash much more consistently at Yahoo, and I’m not more skilled on that site compared to DK.

    It’s considerably easier to field an respectable lineup AND go safe on pitching on the other two sites. My problem with DK pricing is that you have virtually no one usable under 3,000, and it also (apparently) weighs upside and or track record way more than the competition. You have Randall Grichuck and Adam Eaton at 4,000. Teoscar Hernandez is at 4,500. That just doesn’t make sense to me.

    On FD and Yahoo I could go cheap at the corners with someone like Eric Hosmer (depending on matchup) and spread the savings elsewhere. No chance at DK – he’s 3,900. So if I played someone like Blake Snell and Paxton, even second tier options like Hosmer or Miguel Andujar would take up chunks of the budget and I would be forced to spend 2,800-3,300 on OFs. Unless I just completely punt the middle infield.

    Everyone is just sort unreasonably expensive at DK. In some slates you definitely feel the pinch and I HAVE to pick certain players. Can there be skill if I don’t have room to be creative?

    Everyone in the field has the exact same constraints and it is not like only you have to make tough decisions whereas everyone else can pair Sale with Scherzer and stack Coors. I personally love DK’s really high tight pricing since it doesn’t allow you to take guys like Sale, Schezer, Degrom AND stack top bats like Boston, Cleveland or Colorado. If you want to stack those teams you have to take risks with cheap pitchers.

    If your feeling the pinch and having to make tough decisions then DK is doing the pricing right. There is always sources of value that pop up on DK if you look hard enough. Like last night Logan Forsythe was only $2400 batting in the middle of the Dodgers lineup and got me 7 points but mainly allowed me to roster Sale and 3 Coors bats. He only came in around 18% ownership last night as well so it is not like pricing is so tight that everyone is forced to go there making him 70%+ owned.

    In my opinion success at DK takes more skill than the other sites since you really have to dig deep to find those extreme values that may only get you 5-10 points but make the rest of your build work. I stopped playing sites like Fanduel since there you can just take any Ace and stack any top offense you want in 45 seconds and it just came down to which star did the best for the night and didn’t require any digging to find the right punt. If you want to be good at DK the real skill is finding that punt value to make everything work which I think has been great this year.

  • KindGuy

    @bigez952 said...

    Everyone in the field has the exact same constraints and it is not like only you have to make tough decisions whereas everyone else can pair Sale with Scherzer and stack Coors. I personally love DK’s really high tight pricing since it doesn’t allow you to take guys like Sale, Schezer, Degrom AND stack top bats like Boston, Cleveland or Colorado. If you want to stack those teams you have to take risks with cheap pitchers.

    If your feeling the pinch and having to make tough decisions then DK is doing the pricing right. There is always sources of value that pop up on DK if you look hard enough. Like last night Logan Forsythe was only $2400 batting in the middle of the Dodgers lineup and got me 7 points but mainly allowed me to roster Sale and 3 Coors bats. He only came in around 18% ownership last night as well so it is not like pricing is so tight that everyone is forced to go there making him 70%+ owned.

    In my opinion success at DK takes more skill than the other sites since you really have to dig deep to find those extreme values that may only get you 5-10 points but make the rest of your build work. I stopped playing sites like Fanduel since there you can just take any Ace and stack any top offense you want in 45 seconds and it just came down to which star did the best for the night and didn’t require any digging to find the right punt. If you want to be good at DK the real skill is finding that punt value to make everything work which I think has been great this year.

    Hit the nail right on the head. It appears SkateFiend is used to Yahoo’s very slow process in adjusting prices which also happens in NBA. It creates a lot of overlap and makes for a bad product. Tighter pricing is always better and makes for a more skill based game I think. Also having roster flexibility requires more skill but that’s a different subject… along with 2P vs 1P

  • leib0039

    One thing I would like DK is for you to not have to go click into missions to get rewards. For example I got on late today and decided to play the $10 Summer league slate, threw in a few lineups and after it locked I remembered to look at my mission, my mission is play in a $10+ game. Well because I didn’t click it first I don’t get it even though I did it. I mean come on, really?

  • ocdobv

    • 538

      RG Overall Ranking

    @bhdevault said...

    Just curious, how does it not work? I use it pretty regularly? Does it need improvements, sure, but saying it doesn’t work, I’m honestly confused.

    It works fine for people that only play a few lineups. If you play lots of lineups in lots of slates, then you’ll have a very different experience. It is pretty much unusable with lots of lineups.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @ocdobv said...

    It works fine for people that only play a few lineups. If you play lots of lineups in lots of slates, then you’ll have a very different experience. It is pretty much unusable with lots of lineups.

    I get that, but how doesn’t it work? Like I have been playing 150 lineups a day on DK and still not seeing a problem? Is it because of different hardware? Using it on Ipad? I’m sure explaining a bit more may help the rep understand so he can pass it along?

  • wazzu24

    RG LoL Writer

    @bhdevault said...

    I get that, but how doesn’t it work? Like I have been playing 150 lineups a day on DK and still not seeing a problem? Is it because of different hardware? Using it on Ipad? I’m sure explaining a bit more may help the rep understand so he can pass it along?

    Did you not read the posts on this issue 2 pages back? This isn’t an uncommon issue. Basically everyone I know who plays lots of lineups can’t use the lineups page.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @wazzu24 said...

    Did you not read the posts on this issue 2 pages back? This isn’t an uncommon issue. Basically everyone I know who plays lots of lineups can’t use the lineups page.

    All I can say is I don’t have that same issue. Maybe because I have a better internet connection/computer, I don’t know. The lineup page always loads up for me fine, even if there are 300+ lineups showing.

    I do agree, re-reading the post you are referring to, that it can be made better. The suggestions I read were fine, however, saying it ‘doesn’t work’ isn’t helping when it in fact, does work.

    Think of it this way. The DK reps have to go back to their techs and explain the issue. If they simply go to their techs and say, “The Lineup Page doesn’t work, that’s the feedback we are getting” then the techs check it out and say to themselves, “Working for me?!?” Does that make sense?

    Sometimes being calm, explaining what can be fixed, will get better results. That’s all I’m saying.

  • Zieg30

    • 615

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @bhdevault said...

    “The Lineup Page doesn’t work, that’s the feedback we are getting” then the techs check it out and say to themselves, “Working for me?!?” Does that make sense?

    Sometimes being calm, explaining what can be fixed, will get better results. That’s all I’m saying.

    But it is clear from what has been said what the problems were. I don’t enter a ton of lineups, yet by reading what others have said in the last page or two, I’ve learned that it gets very slow for a number of users who enter significant entries.

    It’s also been clearly explained that the filter function in the lineups page went from working well to not working well. The set filter resets after any change is made, which is mindbogglingly frustrating.

  • SkateFiend

    @bigez952 said...

    Everyone in the field has the exact same constraints and it is not like only you have to make tough decisions whereas everyone else can pair Sale with Scherzer and stack Coors. I personally love DK’s really high tight pricing since it doesn’t allow you to take guys like Sale, Schezer, Degrom AND stack top bats like Boston, Cleveland or Colorado. If you want to stack those teams you have to take risks with cheap pitchers.

    If your feeling the pinch and having to make tough decisions then DK is doing the pricing right. There is always sources of value that pop up on DK if you look hard enough. Like last night Logan Forsythe was only $2400 batting in the middle of the Dodgers lineup and got me 7 points but mainly allowed me to roster Sale and 3 Coors bats. He only came in around 18% ownership last night as well so it is not like pricing is so tight that everyone is forced to go there making him 70%+ owned.

    In my opinion success at DK takes more skill than the other sites since you really have to dig deep to find those extreme values that may only get you 5-10 points but make the rest of your build work. I stopped playing sites like Fanduel since there you can just take any Ace and stack any top offense you want in 45 seconds and it just came down to which star did the best for the night and didn’t require any digging to find the right punt. If you want to be good at DK the real skill is finding that punt value to make everything work which I think has been great this year.

    Finding the “punt value” at DK is a crapshoot, because there’s hardly anyone usable under the 3,000. I’ve played value players who went off (Miguel Rojas two homer game comes to mind) that didn’t make much of a difference on that site.

    You actually have to punt multiple spots at both DK and FD to accommodate aces. The difference is that the choices aren’t that stark on those sites. You can find mid level players at around 2,800 to 3,000. Those prices at DK will get you someone like Kevan Smith.

    There’s no way someone like Eric Hosmer should be priced at 3,900. I play all three sites and the discrepancy is hard to ignore. DK obviously wants to discourage stacking and prevent users from collecting 40-45 base points by paying up for pitchers. That’s not exactly appealing or even fun for more low volume players. If DK herds me to play “boom or bust” lineups all the time, then I’ll probably walk away.

    All the contests fill so they won’t miss me. But that site is a bit of mess. Their website looks like it’s from geocities, and changes sometimes take like 5 seconds to go through, and their pricing is arguably unfair. You can’t have someone like David Fletcher at 3,500 and say “it’s about skills”. The pricing at the other sites more accurately reflect the player’s current value.

  • bigez952

    It sounds your best bet is just to walk away and play sites with soft pricing so you can play studs every night in every spot. FanDuel is like that which is why I quit playing over because it was way too easy to build a lineup of all stars in 35 seconds.

    Draft is also a good site where you can play and worry about all star players only and never have to research into punt plays.

    You could also stick to DK pick em or FanDuel’s new no salary cap format so you don’t have to worry about lineup construction and trying to find which punt play will go off that night. There is already tons of options for the casual player that don’t want to dig past the stars so I hope DK keeps tight pricing for the Classic Mode. I love seeing Aces $13,000+ and top hitters $5500+ so no one can roster 2 Aces and 8 All Stars. No one is being herded into anything and there is tons of ways to attack most slates with big bats and cheap pitchers or Aces and cheap batters.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    @biffrenylds said...

    I have some $8 and $33 tickets for FBWC qualifiers. Is there a schedule available that says when these qualifiers will be held? I don’t want to miss the dates and lose the tickets. Thanks!

    DraftKings does not publish a schedule in advance, but generally you will find the $33s on most Fridays. The $8 ticket qualifier we will run at some point before the end of the program, at this time the date is unknown.

    DK guy comes in and answers a bunch of questions, but obviously declines to acknowledge the fact that the lineups page does not work for users who play more than few lineups each day.

    We can assure you that every post is read and noted. We cannot comment on feature requests other than to say your point has been heard. We get how the lack of definitive answer can be frustrating. Our goal is to straddle the middle, let you know your voice has been heard, but we cannot provide any further details unless the feature is someday implemented. We thank you for your understanding.

    In the meantime, we sent you a PM asking for specific details – the more specific the details with proof that the changes would benefit all players, the more likely it is an issue our team can help communicate throughout our company. If your point is concise, compelling and contains evidence of your opinion, then we can work to make sure your request is heard.

    Do they run .25 MiniMax’s for MLB anymore?

    We do not offer $.25 mini-MAX games in MLB to our Major League Achievements. We offered a $.25 mini-MAX once when we launched the Player First Initiative as the inaugural mini-MAX contest for MLB, but that was a one time special situation.

    I would like to know if you’re ever going to consistently bring back dime contests. Would also love to know if there is going to be any effort to reintroduce college sports again in states that allow it, which most still do. The landscape changed recently so I hope sites wade back into it.

    Dime: We suggest our Quarter Jukebox offerings which have become very popular because we can usually offer a larger guaranteed prize pool. Dimes may return when you least expect them, but they are unlikely to occur at the same time as Quarter contests. With that said, everything we do today is subject to change in the future – nothing is permanent.

    College: Daily fantasy sports has different regulatory requirements in various states. We abide by all fantasy sports state laws and regulations, which to be clear are independent of sports betting regulation and laws. We have no changes to announce at this time.

    Everyone is just sort unreasonably expensive at DK. In some slates you definitely feel the pinch and I HAVE to pick certain players. Can there be skill if I don’t have room to be creative?

    As the stewards of the worlds largest daily fantasy ecosystem, it is our responsibility to provide pricing that benefits all players. What you are asking for is a personal preference, and that is a perfectly reasonable request – but it would not necessarily be a benefit to all as shown with your discussion with bigez952 and elementasrat. We tend to agree with them, and concur with this statement – “If your feeling the pinch and having to make tough decisions then DK is doing the pricing right.”

    With that said, your feedback was passed along to the team that provides pricing – because your opinion matters. The opinions of all of our customers matter.

    thanks for the response. For myself and I’m sure many others in the Nascar DFS community the biggest frustration with the mini-max last week was the lack thereof in one of the biggest races of the year. I do appreciate bumping it up to 10K guaranteed I think that is a good change.

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts, we are glad you like the guarantee bump from $7K to $10K. As discussed earlier, we could promote the $3 NAS $30K Slingshot [20 Entry Max] at the same time as a mini-MAX, the two games share the same player liquidity pool. Yes, we could have done a better job of tempering player expectations by informing the community earlier, unfortunately we experienced the perfect storm of 4th of July, vacations, and illness which kept the Community team from responding sooner. Generally speaking, we will try to respond to posts 2-3x a week.

    - DraftKings Community Team

    PS: more responses tomorrow

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    The upcoming week of featured MLB main sets are scheduled as follows:

    Please Note: DraftKings reserves the right to revise, change, alter, or cancel the schedule described above at any time – but we do intend to follow these plans.

    Notable plans:

    • It is time for All Star Week, therefore we have a reduced schedule of only Thursday – Sunday.
    • Most days this week we are offering a featured contest mix of $8/$4/$2 with the exception of today where the lowest featured contest was a mini-MAX with a $.50 entry fee.
    • On Friday we are also offering a $1 mini-MAX with a $15K guarantee.

    Lets us know your thoughts RotoGrinders – does this advance notice of our lower-stakes headliner gpp schedule help you to better plan your week?

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • SkateFiend

    @bigez952 said...

    It sounds your best bet is just to walk away and play sites with soft pricing so you can play studs every night in every spot. FanDuel is like that which is why I quit playing over because it was way too easy to build a lineup of all stars in 35 seconds.

    Draft is also a good site where you can play and worry about all star players only and never have to research into punt plays.

    You could also stick to DK pick em or FanDuel’s new no salary cap format so you don’t have to worry about lineup construction and trying to find which punt play will go off that night. There is already tons of options for the casual player that don’t want to dig past the stars so I hope DK keeps tight pricing for the Classic Mode. I love seeing Aces $13,000+ and top hitters $5500+ so no one can roster 2 Aces and 8 All Stars. No one is being herded into anything and there is tons of ways to attack most slates with big bats and cheap pitchers or Aces and cheap batters.

    But you can’t play studs in every spot at FD and Yahoo while also playing aces. At the top of my head, you can’t even do that at fantasy draft.

    I had a Max and Stripling lineup at Yahoo, meaning I had 10-11 dollars per position left to spend on offense. Stud players at yahoo cost 20-25 bucks, so I would have to punt like 4 spots to make room for two of them. But both yahoo and FD have serviceable players at reasonable prices. Yonder Alonso is $14 at Yahoo and 2,900 at FD. That’s not soft, that’s the right price for players of his caliber. But he’s 4,300 at DK. If I spend 4,300 on 9 position players there, I have little room for pitching if at all.

    I personally don’t think Tommy Pham at 3,900 is fair. Or Miguel Sano (inactive) at 4,000. Or Taylor Motter at 3,900. They had Chase Utley at 3,000 yesterday. These are some examples, and in my view DK include some marginal players at 4,000-4,500 range. If you don’t think so, then we can just agree to disagree. Gauging player value is subjective.

    Most sites allow you to pay for pitching and make judicious picks on offense. I don’t see anything unfair about it. Even if I get 60 combined points from my two aces, there are no guarantees my offense will cough up 90 plus points on top of that to make serous cash. Stacks go wrong more often that not. But over a long season you’ll probably have a better chance at cashing more consistently if you could field a decent offense coupled with pitching.

    DK can very easily price players like Hernan Perez and Neil Walker at around 2,700-2,800 and offer some salary relief. Those prices (effectively) appear to be industry standard. Most users would have no problem with it. Given that min cash threshold is something like 125 points at DK, it won’t afford that much of an edge. Ronald Guzman is a steal at 2,400 on FD. That’s a bit generous, and 2,700 is probably more fair. But he’s already 4,000 at DK. You notice these things when you play multiple sites.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/draftkings-community-what-would-you-like-to-know-2498166?page=27#reply-2585433

    What is DraftKings strategy with a niche sport like CFL? To me, it should be to try to grow the sport. But for 3 years in a row now, DraftKings has done the exact opposite.’

    You request is putting the cart before the horse Stewburtx8. DraftKings has taken a risk to invest in the future of CLF, but our customers have not embraced the sport. Each time we attempt to swing for the fences, the players have not arrived to support the games.

    Think of it this way – when contests fill, then contests are unlikely to shrink. When the contests do not fill, they shrink – it’s a very simple model to follow. We always committed to creating right-sized, contests for CFL and all our sports. CFL contest sizing follows the same model we use for all elsewhere, for example, if a MLB contest doesn’t fill, we are more likely to shrink the same contest the following week until we find an equilibrium between player expectations and guarantee.

    The last 3 weeks we have seen the main GPP decline from $15k to $10k to $6k despite ZERO overlay. Did you get max rake? No. But that should not be the goal/strategy with a niche sport.

    6/16: $10/$20K 2 Game Classic. This contest filled only 69%. Since it was the launch of CFL we really swung for the fences, but the players did not arrive to support it. Result: Large overlay, which we view as an investment in CFL to help kick-start the season.
    6/22: $8/$4K 2 Game Classic. This game filled – YAY!
    6/28: $8/$15K 4 Game Classic. We adjusted from week one by lowering the entry fee to $8, which also lowers the guarantee accordingly. This contest filled only 89%, once again a big miss.
    6/29: $8/$3K 2 Game Classic. Our focus was on promoting the big $15K guarantee the prior evening because the two contests will share in the same player liquidity (aka there are a limited number of players interested in CFL contests). Despite adjusting our expectations to compensate for 6/28 by lowering the guarantee, the contest filled only 75%.
    7/5: $8/$10K 4 Game Classic. Our only filled contest was an $8 entry fee, so we continue down that path but we needed to lower the guarantee because we have only filled the contest one time, all others have cost us money to support. This contest filled only 88%.
    7/7: $8/$1.5K 2 Game Classic. The pattern developing is clear, the $8/$3K contest did not fill so we cut the guarantee in half, which in turn means fewer customers needed to fill the contest. We are happy to say this contest filled.

    In total, only 33.33% of the CFL featured contests offered have filled. Did we overlay during this period? Yes. Each time there is an overlay we are investing in the sport to provide extra value to our customers.

    At relatively low guarantees, customers looking to play your contests are VERY price sensitive. At $15k (with $3k to first) I put in 8 entries. At $10k (with $1k to first) I put in 5 entries. At $6k, I may put in 3 entries or not even bother. By lowering the guarantee you are creating a cycle were players continue to reduce their entries or not play. Newer players will just look at it and walk away. All you are doing is pushing people who might play or give the sport a shot away.

    We cannot dictate where players should invest their entries, it is their own decision to make, we respond by sizing our contests based on customer demand. They did not arrive to fill contests when we offered $20K, $15K, or $10K guarantee. We have performed multiple tests of contest formats, prize pool guarantee and entry fee size using the “build it and they will come” mindset. One small problem – they have been coming less frequently as the weeks into the CFL season progress. We understand your point that as we shrink guarantees to account for the lack of customer attendance, we reach inflection points where customer interest decreases as a side effect. This is a classic case of which came first, the chicken or the egg. Our attempt is to find an equilibrium between the interest of the players and the size of the contest.

    We get how this appears from your eyes, you want big contests in a sport you love. We want those same big contests, it is better for everyone when that occurs – but we cannot force players to embrace CFL contests, they have their own free will. We haven’t given up on CFL, we are still performing tests each week to find the right balance between contest size, and the amount of guarantee we need to risk to attract the players to participate in CFL contests. A guarantee is a risk we take each week.

    To use an example, let’s say you owned a widget factory that sells widgets once a week, for just a few months out of the year. Each widget has a lifespan of just 4 days, so you cannot repurpose unsold widgets that you do not sell. You open that widget factory with 25,000 widgets to sell, you have a cost of goods you need to meet to break even, but you sell far less than your goal. What would you do the following week? Reduce the number of widgets you manufacture is the logical answer. And you would keep reducing the number of widgets each week until you figured out how many widgets the market is assured to buy each week – that is your equilibrium spot. At that point you continue to tweak and balance, hoping that someday you get to sell more widgets. This is the DFS business, simplified – we want to sell more widgets, but we need customers to buy those widgets each week. If they do not show up to buy the widgets, we need to manufacture fewer widgets next week.

    We hope this explanation is helpful. CFL has a future at DraftKings, and we are willing to take risks to promote the sport – but if we keep missing our numbers week after week our ability to take those risks decreases.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    6/16: $10/$20K 2 Game Classic. This contest filled only 69%. Since it was the launch of CFL we really swung for the fences, but the players did not arrive to support it. Result: Large overlay, which we view as an investment in CFL to help kick-start the season.
    6/22: $8/$4K 2 Game Classic. This game filled – YAY!
    6/28: $8/$15K 4 Game Classic. We adjusted from week one by lowering the entry fee to $8, which also lowers the guarantee accordingly. This contest filled only 89%, once again a big miss.
    6/29: $8/$3K 2 Game Classic. Our focus was on promoting the big $15K guarantee the prior evening because the two contests will share in the same player liquidity (aka there are a limited number of players interested in CFL contests). Despite adjusting our expectations to compensate for 6/28 by lowering the guarantee, the contest filled only 75%.
    7/5: $8/$10K 4 Game Classic. Our only filled contest was an $8 entry fee, so we continue down that path but we needed to lower the guarantee because we have only filled the contest one time, all others have cost us money to support. This contest filled only 88%.
    7/7: $8/$1.5K 2 Game Classic. The pattern developing is clear, the $8/$3K contest did not fill so we cut the guarantee in half, which in turn means fewer customers needed to fill the contest. We are happy to say this contest filled.

    In total, only 33.33% of the CFL featured contests offered have filled. Did we overlay during this period? Yes. Each time there is an overlay we are investing in the sport to provide extra value to our customers.

    The 4 game classic slates (which is the full slate of CFL contests each week) have NOT overlayed the last 3 weeks yet have continued to substantially decrease in size. They did not fill but that is very different than overlay. Overlay is when DraftKings loses money. Getting 3-5% rake instead of 15% rake is NOT overlay.

    Using overlapping 2 game slates as any part of this discussion is the typical DraftKings move of using selectively biased analytics. For example, It’s like when you say the $100k non-late swap contest filled but the $3k late swap contest did not. DraftKings conclusion: Players do not want late swap. But the overlapping 2 game slates should have nothing to do with what I am discussing. A sport like CFL clearly does not support multiple overlapping game slates. Not to mention, 1-2 game slates require less skill and have less options for constructing lineups = players enter less lineups.

    I am talking about the main full slate 3-4 game contest the last few weeks. It has decreased by 50% and then again by 40% despite having ZERO overlay. That just frustrates players and pushes them away. Will continue to disagree with DraftKings strategy on “trying” to grow or even sustain the non-big 3 or 4 sports (which goes back to college basketball and college football, then soccer, seen it with Nascar, and obviously CFL). When focusing only on maximizing rake percentage, you are doing a disservice to your players and also your own company long-term.

  • Hawkeye1992

    DK CM – again thanks for listening to all the feedback. Regarding MMA, loved that you had a TUF contest last week. Any thoughts on adding Bellator slates to your MMA offerings in the future?

  • thegeneral391

    Did they ever run .50 MiniMax’s for MLB?

  • cjs5555

    @SkateFiend said...

    But you can’t play studs in every spot at FD and Yahoo while also playing aces. At the top of my head, you can’t even do that at fantasy draft.

    I had a Max and Stripling lineup at Yahoo, meaning I had 10-11 dollars per position left to spend on offense. Stud players at yahoo cost 20-25 bucks, so I would have to punt like 4 spots to make room for two of them. But both yahoo and FD have serviceable players at reasonable prices. Yonder Alonso is $14 at Yahoo and 2,900 at FD. That’s not soft, that’s the right price for players of his caliber. But he’s 4,300 at DK. If I spend 4,300 on 9 position players there, I have little room for pitching if at all.

    I personally don’t think Tommy Pham at 3,900 is fair. Or Miguel Sano (inactive) at 4,000. Or Taylor Motter at 3,900. They had Chase Utley at 3,000 yesterday. These are some examples, and in my view DK include some marginal players at 4,000-4,500 range. If you don’t think so, then we can just agree to disagree. Gauging player value is subjective.

    Most sites allow you to pay for pitching and make judicious picks on offense. I don’t see anything unfair about it. Even if I get 60 combined points from my two aces, there are no guarantees my offense will cough up 90 plus points on top of that to make serous cash. Stacks go wrong more often that not. But over a long season you’ll probably have a better chance at cashing more consistently if you could field a decent offense coupled with pitching.

    DK can very easily price players like Hernan Perez and Neil Walker at around 2,700-2,800 and offer some salary relief. Those prices (effectively) appear to be industry standard. Most users would have no problem with it. Given that min cash threshold is something like 125 points at DK, it won’t afford that much of an edge. Ronald Guzman is a steal at 2,400 on FD. That’s a bit generous, and 2,700 is probably more fair. But he’s already 4,000 at DK. You notice these things when you play multiple sites.

    so i don’t actually care if DK wants to make Hernan Perez $5,000 or whatever. it comes down to strategy for me. a couple years ago, DK had lots of players that would make the starting lineups that were priced in the low $2ks. and in a tough pitching matchup, maybe trout was $4600 or something. i liked the strategy this involved. because the cheaper pricing was an impetus to someone to play that guy for one reason or another to fit the other players they wanted. now the pricing is very tight and almost never changes. that might be fair for the players’ skill levels, but i think it takes away from the game strategy.

  • bigez952

    @cjs5555 said...

    so i don’t actually care if DK wants to make Hernan Perez $5,000 or whatever. it comes down to strategy for me. a couple years ago, DK had lots of players that would make the starting lineups that were priced in the low $2ks. and in a tough pitching matchup, maybe trout was $4600 or something. i liked the strategy this involved. because the cheaper pricing was an impetus to someone to play that guy for one reason or another to fit the other players they wanted. now the pricing is very tight and almost never changes. that might be fair for the players’ skill levels, but i think it takes away from the game strategy.

    How does that take away from strategy? Many guys still get priced down when against Aces and if they don’t you can’t still use the game theory strategy and play them knowing it will be a reduced ownership situation. Every single night there are a handful of cheap players that are viable that make everything work. Last night it was Wei Chen at $4800 for me who put up 20+ points and allowed me to get every big bat I wanted.

    It goes both ways if the pricing it not being wildly changed everyday based on matchups instead of targeting elite players in bad matchups that are priced downed now you can target average/ weak players in elite matchups that are stil dirt cheap.

    Pricing in no way takes away from game strategy as no matter what it is it will be the same for everyone and there is always going to some level of game strategy to help win. I will agree if you have a canned approach and feel there is only 1 way to build a lineup you could have trouble on a day to day basis as many times the slate dictates what the best approach is.

  • cjs5555

    @bigez952 said...

    How does that take away from strategy? Many guys still get priced down when against Aces and if they don’t you can’t still use the game theory strategy and play them knowing it will be a reduced ownership situation. Every single night there are a handful of cheap players that are viable that make everything work. Last night it was Wei Chen at $4800 for me who put up 20+ points and allowed me to get every big bat I wanted.

    It goes both ways if the pricing it not being wildly changed everyday based on matchups instead of targeting elite players in bad matchups that are priced downed now you can target average/ weak players in elite matchups that are stil dirt cheap.

    Pricing in no way takes away from game strategy as no matter what it is it will be the same for everyone and there is always going to some level of game strategy to help win. I will agree if you have a canned approach and feel there is only 1 way to build a lineup you could have trouble on a day to day basis as many times the slate dictates what the best approach is.

    my experience from years past (and maybe the data doesn’t back this up, but this is my recollection) is that if you have guys like trout, betts, etc. at a discount, more of the field will play them. this gives you a leg up on the field when they’re in more difficult spots and you can fade them. when they’re $6k EVERY night, people just fade them except for the good matchups.

    i also liked the $2k punt plays, because it gave you an additional decision to make….“if i want that BOS stack with Sale, I have to throw in a $2k OF” and some of that opportunity has been taken away with the tighter pricing, because now sometimes if you want Sale plus the BOS stack, you have $1800 left over, so it’s not possible.

  • cjs5555

    @cjs5555 said...

    my experience from years past (and maybe the data doesn’t back this up, but this is my recollection) is that if you have guys like trout, betts, etc. at a discount, more of the field will play them. this gives you a leg up on the field when they’re in more difficult spots and you can fade them. when they’re $6k EVERY night, people just fade them except for the good matchups.

    i also liked the $2k punt plays, because it gave you an additional decision to make….“if i want that BOS stack with Sale, I have to throw in a $2k OF” and some of that opportunity has been taken away with the tighter pricing, because now sometimes if you want Sale plus the BOS stack, you have $1800 left over, so it’s not possible.

    and in a funny coincidence, trout is $4800 today on DK!

  • eperson911

    I was wondering, how does DK decide which contests to create satellites for? I like to play $3 – $5 per entry. I am a big fan of the satellites for the $3 PGA Birdie. Why not have sats into $3 – $5 contests in other sports?

    Also, I really miss the $3 MLB 3 Entry Max contests for main slates. I would be really happy if those were brought back. $2 3 entry max would be cool too. I guess what I am saying is I’d love to see more 3 max contests!

    Thanks.

  • bigez952

    @cjs5555 said...

    my experience from years past (and maybe the data doesn’t back this up, but this is my recollection) is that if you have guys like trout, betts, etc. at a discount, more of the field will play them. this gives you a leg up on the field when they’re in more difficult spots and you can fade them. when they’re $6k EVERY night, people just fade them except for the good matchups.

    That has to be the most comical reasoning as to why someone lost their edge that I have ever heard. So your saying Trout, JD, & Betts should always be under $5,000 so you can fade them and win more? Those guys are elite and can hit anyone in any matchup so that doesn’t sound like a very sound strategy to win more of asking Draftkings to make them cheap so everyone but you can play them.

    There still is 2K punt plays most nights. I just played Logan Forsythe a few days ago batting 5th for $2400 to fit in an extra Coors bat. He got me 7 but the Rockies scored 19 runs and went off so I still did ok.

    Your last comments is exactly why in my opinion I hate soft pricing as you should never be able to take the best pitcher in baseball and stack them with the best offense on the board with only having to take 1 punt play. You should have to take multiple punts or choose between the two.

    Someone must be listening to you guys as pricing was extremely soft today with everyone priced way down so it was way too easy to build star studded lineups today. I am not even playing tonight because of it since it is way too easy to just stack Coors which means everyone will do it and there will be 85% of the lineups in play that are very similar and only a bat or two different. Hopefully this is just a weekend thing for the causal players and they get back to tighter pricing after the All Star Break.

  • TPSC

    Are the lines at your sportsbook going to be as hilariously bad as the ones FanDuel is dealing at Meadowlands?

    Are the two companies competing together to be the most incompetent oligopoly in the history of the world?

    Is it your intention to be a gigantic, years-long troll designed just to show how much venture capital money can be bilked by grease-bros who have no idea what they’re doing?

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