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  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    On behalf of DraftKings, we are proud to announce our newly created Community team. Our group was formed to listen, engage, and advocate for the player community at large while championing our industry leading commitment to a world class game experience. We are here to represent your feedback inside the walls of DraftKings, because your ideas can help us deliver an increasingly better experience for all players. You can read our introductory post here: https://rotogrinders.com/threads/draftkings-cm-is-now-on-rotogrinders-2496208

    Now it’s your chance – what would you like to know? Do you have a suggestion you would like to share? We will do our best to answer all honest and respectful questions you post in this thread, in turn we hope to help players like you have a better understanding of how the world’s largest fantasy sports ecosystem works. Please allow us some time before responding to your questions and comments, you deserve well thought out answers – and that takes time.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • whoisjohngalt420

    @TheRealJosh5 said...

    You guys don’t really offer much for low, mid stakes tbh

    This exactly. Agree 1000%.

  • TheRealJosh5

    If you look at the lobby on dk, what is there offered at mid stakes, low stakes? It’s like 3-4 GPP’s, mostly all 20 max, outside of the mini max the next 150… It’s 2019 offer more. The whole NBA lobby is Satellites, double ups and triple up/winner take alls. We act like contest are not going to fill but we continue to get nothing. I’m not asking for a $1 150 max for 250k guar. but at least get some contest in there..

  • whoisjohngalt420

    @TheRealJosh5 said...

    If you look at the lobby on dk, what is there offered at mid stakes, low stakes? It’s like 3-4 GPP’s, mostly all 20 max, outside of the mini max the next 150… It’s 2019 offer more. The whole NBA lobby is Satellites, double ups and triple up/winner take alls. We act like contest are not going to fill but we continue to get nothing. I’m not asking for a $1 150 max for 250k guar. but at least get some contest in there..

    I have a feeling what they are going to say about this is that they are ‘managing the ecosystem’.. notice they never refer to it as an economy.. or some other term. At least they are being quite honest. What happens in an ecosystem? Predators consume prey. Organisms consume other organisms.

    If they offered the multi entry contests we are asking for that would reduce the volume that gets slammed into the 10 cent and 25 cent satellites that they want us in. That volume instead would get shifted into a decent GPP that a skilled MME micro player could use to build up actual cash that the player could then use to ‘level up’ and enter larger contests that THEY want to, not that the site wants/needs to fill. Once they lose a micro player thats slamming volume into those.. they need to find a way to replace that volume.

    If skilled microplayers move up too fast that would create a problem at the bottom of the ‘food chain’. You will see very few options at micro to actually profit in real money.. yet sometimes on an NBA slate you’ll see 5 or so sats to a Tennis GPP or an EL GPP. Or stuff like the $44 Spin Move where maybe a micro player can get a single dart or two into a high dollar MME event that is just awful EV with a single dart. This helps keep some of those other larger tourneys filled with a little more ‘dead money’ to make sure the elite players are as happy and profitable as possible.

    Having a 150 max at 10 cents or 25 cents every day gives micro players wayyyy to much chance to practice and hone skills at that format and move up faster. The larger 150 max GPPs are much more limited in total entry size. Too many more people being able to get into those and max them at 150 entries would be a problem for the site and for the top players. IMO.

    Cannot blame the site at all. They are being incredibly smart managing things to keep their business profitable and growing.

  • Jeddy3

    First off, thank you very much for the PGA achievements. I think they are very fair and achievable! With that said, is there any chance you guys are going to add Showdown achievements for PGA or is this all she wrote?

  • Southie777

    Could you PLEASE do something about your NHL contest offerings? Everyone in the daily forum always says what a great payout structure the Forecheck is or when you do the $3 contest (the name escapes me, at the moment) for a good sized prize pool. They’re 20 Max Entry, first place is usually a nice chunk of change (but 10% or less of the total prize pool), etc. But, too often this season, you’ve been running the $8 contest, which has a 150 Max Entry, tonight 1st place got 25% ($20,000) of the $80,000 prize pool, 10th place got $200. And you’re up against 11,000 other entries. Those are just GROSS odds. If you ran a good-sized Forecheck every night, it would fill. The contest offerings for each slate have just been SOOOO inconsistent. Thanks for your time!

  • DefinitelyMiami

    Start NASCAR Achievements please

  • MotownGreek

    @DefinitelyMiami said...

    Start NASCAR Achievements please

    I think they said a week or two ago that they were not doing NASCAR achievements this year

  • hautalak

    • x2

      2021 Blogger of the Month

    @Southie777 said...

    Could you PLEASE do something about your NHL contest offerings? Everyone in the daily forum always says what a great payout structure the Forecheck is or when you do the $3 contest (the name escapes me, at the moment) for a good sized prize pool. They’re 20 Max Entry, first place is usually a nice chunk of change (but 10% or less of the total prize pool), etc. But, too often this season, you’ve been running the $8 contest, which has a 150 Max Entry, tonight 1st place got 25% ($20,000) of the $80,000 prize pool, 10th place got $200. And you’re up against 11,000 other entries. Those are just GROSS odds. If you ran a good-sized Forecheck every night, it would fill. The contest offerings for each slate have just been SOOOO inconsistent. Thanks for your time!

    To echo this, I will admit DK has been much better about NHL than they have in the past but there is still a lot to be desired.

    I’ve been following along and realize the reasons you do the things you do but we just ask for a little more consistency one way or another. That could mean a variety of things. The best case for me would be to have some sort of “standard” prize pool (20K+ would be a good start but like Zieg has harped we could fill a 40K pretty consistently) for when you do run a $4 Forecheck. I would like the $3 Sniper to be at least 10K a night and that could be one that always runs. I see no reason why that couldn’t happen. I guess the bottomline is it would be nice to get some larger 20 max contests on occasion rather than this $8 all the time. And if you want the $8 to be the featured that is fine, just give us better options below that are actually worthwhile to play (I guess something where we can win at least 1K would be nice). That’s where the mini comes in but that is “special”. Last but not least this is probably taboo but get rid of 1.5K quarter jukebox structure as I avoid that contest like the plague and I know others do as well!!! I get it’s “micro” stakes but c’mon 3.33% up top is laughable.

    In the end I have been happy how the NHL product has grown but we are just looking to keep improving by offering suggestions. And I’m sure you are aware but many play on FD because of their “low” stakes ($3-$5) larger prize pool contests. We need better consistent low dollar ($3-$5) contests. I know the $8 contest fills but it is well known to be a losing proposal and I think you could make a larger contest if you just flattened it out a bit. I know most say 10% but if you want the “big” money make it 15% or something, which should be good enough for both sides of the argument. And as always thanks for taking the time to hear what the players have to say!

  • Zieg30

    • 530

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @hautalak said...

    To echo this, I will admit DK has been much better about NHL than they have in the past but there is still a lot to be desired.

    I’ve been following along and realize the reasons you do the things you do but we just ask for a little more consistency one way or another. That could mean a variety of things. The best case for me would be to have some sort of “standard” prize pool (20K+ would be a good start but like Zieg has harped we could fill a 40K pretty consistently) for when you do run a $4 Forecheck. I would like the $3 Sniper to be at least 10K a night and that could be one that always runs. I see no reason why that couldn’t happen. I guess the bottomline is it would be nice to get some larger 20 max contests on occasion rather than this $8 all the time. And if you want the $8 to be the featured that is fine, just give us better options below that are actually worthwhile to play (I guess something where we can win at least 1K would be nice). That’s where the mini comes in but that is “special”. Last but not least this is probably taboo but get rid of 1.5K quarter jukebox structure as I avoid that contest like the plague and I know others do as well!!! I get it’s “micro” stakes but c’mon 3.33% up top is laughable.

    In the end I have been happy how the NHL product has grown but we are just looking to keep improving by offering suggestions. And I’m sure you are aware but many play on FD because of their “low” stakes ($3-$5) larger prize pool contests. We need better consistent low dollar ($3-$5) contests. I know the $8 contest fills but it is well known to be a losing proposal and I think you could make a larger contest if you just flattened it out a bit. I know most say 10% but if you want the “big” money make it 15% or something, which should be good enough for both sides of the argument. And as always thanks for taking the time to hear what the players have to say!

    I agree wholeheartedly with Hautalak.

    Having the $8 as the standard “main” GPP size is fine if that’s what DK has deemed to be the best price point to get the largest NHL tournaments on a regular basis. That said, DK hasn’t offered a $3 or $4 GPP as the “main” NHL GPP of the night in a long time, and many are clamoring for it.

    I believe we could fill a $4 Forecheck at $35-40K if it wasn’t up against a $20, 33, or 40, bigger GPP, as it always is. Having a 20-max be the largest NHL GPP of the night would be a nice change of pace for those of us who want to max enter a GPP without breaking the bank and/or not max enter, but not face others with 150 lineups who clutter up the leaderboards consistently in large part because of their max entry.

    A 15% prize to first place would be fine for a $4 $40k, etc.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    Hey Draftkings will DK at some point in the future introduce horse races for betting?

    We don’t comment on our future plans. We can say that we always evaluate all opportunities to bring new sports to our customers.

    I get the QA to stay at the 20 max, but maybe throw us a bone with a mini mini max or something that is .25 with 150. I believe it ran once mid season last year and it filled 5 times before lock.

    You have our commitment to consider all options for the MLB season. Every season we test congruent pricing to determine the optimal mix of entry fees exposure, we intend to do this for the $.25 entry fee price point just as we have done in the past.

    What does all this mean? If tests perform positively, we change plans mid-course to embrace changes in the ecosystem.

    Last year we launched with a $.25 mini-MAX which filled multiple times before the lock, that is true. It’s also true that the $.25 mini-MAX affected the entry liquidity of the $.25 and $.50 20 max entry contests that were run adjacently. We never intended to offer a $.25 mini-MAX for long, it was intended to promote the launch of our Player First Initiative because the entry fee price point conflicted with our MLB Achievements at the time. We did learn a lot from that experience due to the cannibalization of adjacent contests – which is why we don’t offer mini-MAX at an entry fee price point if there is a competing contest that it may hurt.

    First off, thank you very much for the PGA achievements. I think they are very fair and achievable! With that said, is there any chance you guys are going to add Showdown achievements for PGA or is this all she wrote?

    We are glad your happy with our PGA Achievements, they allow us to give back even more to our most loyal players. We think you’re looking for the Clean 18 Achievement:

    Start NASCAR Achievements please

    It’s not that simple, yet we are committed to reviewing every sport for opportunities to expand our achievements program.

    That volume instead would get shifted into a decent GPP that a skilled MME micro player could use to build up actual cash that the player could then use to ‘level up’ and enter larger contests that THEY want to, not that the site wants/needs to fill. Once they lose a micro player thats slamming volume into those.. they need to find a way to replace that volume. If skilled microplayers move up too fast that would create a problem at the bottom of the ‘food chain’.

    We agree with everything whoisjohngalt420 said, except this. It is very good for our ecosystem for players to rise up and player higher stakes – we want this to happen, and we fully embrace it when it occurs.

    you’ve been running the $8 contest, which has a 150 Max Entry, tonight 1st place got 25% ($20,000) of the $80,000 prize pool, 10th place got $200. And you’re up against 11,000 other entries. Those are just GROSS odds.

    The probability of winning first place is directly proportional to the total number of entries required to guarantee the prize pool.

    Tonight’s $4 Forecheck has a prize pool of $25,000, and requires 7,431 entries to fill.
    In order for us to create a Forecheck with a $50,000 prize pool, it would require more than 14,000 entries and of course the 1st place prize would be significantly lower.

    We just ask for a little more consistency one way or another.

    For clarity, consistency is what we aim to avoid. We understand that the reasons why are counter intuitive, the evidence shows us that consistency results in contests that are less likely to fill over time. That would in turn result in smaller guarantees – something most of our customers hope does not occur.

    Having the $8 as the standard “main” GPP size is fine if that’s what DK has deemed to be the best price point to get the largest NHLtournaments on a regular basis. That said, DK hasn’t offered a $3 or $4 GPP as the “main” NHL GPP of the night in a long time, and many are clamoring for it.

    We listen carefully to the feedback we get from players across all data sources. Customer support is one of the biggest sources of feedback from unique customers. We also review sentiment across social media, forums like RG, and countless other sources. We then correlate this qualitative learnings from these sources with the quantitative information we get from player entries. We mix in our secret sauce, consult the prediction algorithm, perform tests, and eventually settle on a price point that the market determines is ideal. Our job is to listen to the market and adjust, sometimes the feedback in forums matches the market, other times the market goes in a totally different direction from the sentiment we find in the forums. In this instance with NHL, the market and RG do not see eye to eye.

    PS: Since Feb 15th (not so coincidentally after the NBA All-Star break) we have posted ten $5 headliners during the main set for NHL, most of which have performed very well . That is a good sign that we will continue to test the market’s responsiveness to a $5 entry fee 150 max entry contest rather than put all of our eggs in the $8 basket.

    - DraftKings

  • Zieg30

    • 530

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    PS: Since Feb 15th (not so coincidentally after the NBA All-Star break) we have posted ten $5 headliners during the main set for NHL, most of which have performed very well . That is a good sign that we will continue to test the market’s responsiveness to a $5 entry fee 150 max entry contest rather than put all of our eggs in the $8 basket.

    Thanks for the response, as always.

    I would very much welcome a shift to $5 GPPs over $8, as $8 has always seemed just a bit too high for my liking. That said, to reiterate, a $3 or $4 “main” NHL GPP of the night even just every other week would be very welcome!

    Tonight the $4 didn’t fill, but it was paired with a much larger $20 AND the $4 had a tiny top-end payout to first. A normal $3-4 buy-in 20-max for $35k with $4 or $5k to first and $400 to 10th, without another big GPP below the $333 price point, would be grand!

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    Last but not least this is probably taboo but get rid of 1.5K quarter jukebox structure as I avoid that contest like the plague and I know others do as well!!! I get it’s “micro” stakes but c’mon 3.33% up top is laughable.

    We want you to know that your $0.25 quarter jukebox feedback was heard loud and clear, our operations team have moved to an improved payout structure. We agreed that what you called out was not optimal, our co-workers rushed to fix it asap. Here is the improved structure that we are using today:

    1st $150.00
    2nd $100.00
    3rd $50.00
    4th $25.00
    5th – 6th $10.00
    7th – 10th $7.50

    Thank you for keeping us accountable hautalak, we appreciate it!

    Tonight the $4 didn’t fill, but it was paired with a much larger $20 AND the $4 had a tiny top-end payout to first.

    The $4 featured contest had an intentionally flat payout structure that does not compete with entry liquidity for the $20 entry fee featured contest. This is a good example of why we have a wide diversity of contest payout structures (we call them curves internally), and each curve used has an intended purpose to help us provide balance within the ecosystem across the selected sport, as well as competing sports that may “steal” entry liquidity. Yesterday we explained that consistency is what we aim to avoid, this is a good example of our philosophy and why we are intentionally unpredictable. We admit we are not perfect, occasionally we miss (see above for a good example) and when we do our coworkers rush to fix the problem. The majority of the time the unpredictability helps us to accomplish our goal of delivering the biggest GPPs possible across the ecosystem.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • hautalak

    • x2

      2021 Blogger of the Month

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    For clarity, consistency is what we aim to avoid.

    Understood now. I am fine with that, I just don’t want to feel like I am being “priced out”, which doesn’t happen often but there are times when I feel the low stakes aren’t what I am looking for so I just throw one entry into whatever “Hip Check” is that day and call it a day.

    Also thank you on the 1.5K quarter jukebox!!! Now when I see that I will not immediately look elsewhere but will enter it.

  • Zieg30

    • 530

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    At long last! A 4$ NHL GPP as the main NHL GPP of the night! Thanks for offering it.

    Edit: but wait, it’s a 150-max? That’s not great.

  • Southie777

    @Zieg30 said...

    At long last! A 4$ NHL GPP as the main NHL GPP of the night! Thanks for offering it.

    Edit: but wait, it’s a 150-max? That’s not great.

    Yep, was happy about that until I saw the 150 Max.

  • Zieg30

    • 530

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @Southie777 said...

    Yep, was happy about that until I saw the 150 Max.

    I was very pleased and then momentarily concerned, as I figured there was no way a 20-max would fill an $80k, and thus DK would take away from this that few people want the 20-maxes. But they could have run a great $4 20-max as a $40k or $45k GPP and seen what happened. That would have been fantastic tonight.

  • Supersharpie

    CM, would love it if you guys added a tier between Diamond and Black. The gap between 25k crowns and 125k crowns is massive.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    At long last! A 4$ NHL GPP as the main NHL GPP of the night! Thanks for offering it.
    Edit: but wait, it’s a 150-max? That’s not great.

    I was very pleased and then momentarily concerned, as I figured there was no way a 20-max would fill an $80k, and thus DK would take away from this that few people want the 20-maxes. But they could have run a great $4 20-max as a $40k or $45k GPP and seen what happened. That would have been fantastic tonight.

    the NHL $80K Forecheck mini-MAX Championship [$10K to 1st, 150 Entry Max] (link) is our long planned featured contest for champ week, it is a special experience just for today – it is not planned as a regularly occurring contest. A 150 max entry mini-MAX allows us to build the big prize pool NHL players have been asking us for.

    It’s important to note that we have not been able to fill a $4 20max gpp at guarantees above $25K so far this season, that makes it less likely that we would offer a $4/$40K 20 max GPP – the risk vs reward ratio would be imbalanced.

    This is a good time to post a helpful reminder that each entry increases your overall exposure, yet the odds of winning for each individual entry remains the same (adjusted by the skillfulness of your roster creation of course).

    CM, would love it if you guys added a tier between Diamond and Black. The gap between 25k crowns and 125k crowns is massive.

    We have shared your feedback with the heads of our rewards team. You have our commitment to continuously review the data obtained through the rewards program usage to look for opportunities to refine and improve all facets of our rewards – including status tiers.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • Zieg30

    • 530

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    It’s important to note that we have not been able to fill a $4 20max gpp at guarantees above $25K so far this season, that makes it less likely that we would offer a $4/$40K 20 max GPP – the risk vs reward ratio would be imbalanced.

    This is a good time to post a helpful reminder that each entry increases your overall exposure, yet the odds of winning for each individual entry remains the same (adjusted by the skillfulness of your roster creation of course).

    Thanks for the response, as always.

    To your first point, how many times have you offered a large $4 20-max that wasn’t also paired with a “main” GPP of the night that’s a $20, $33, or $40, and is comparatively much smaller? It doesn’t seem to be an accurate test when it isn’t the actual “main” GPP of the night. I rarely play your $4 GPPs when there’s a $20 going, etc.

    To your second point, it’s the overall exposure that matters, at least to me. I get that each individual entry technically has the same chance to win (adjusted to skill), but that doesn’t make it any more enjoyable when I see the same names at the top of the leaderboards every tournament thanks in large part to their maxing out the entries (I am not suggesting that max enterers only do well because of the number of entries, as it still takes a large amount of skill for most sports, but in the NHL where there are not too many viable combinations, max entry has an undeniably disproportionate affect on results).

  • fcbjakub

    When will the payout structure change for tournaments!!!!! the drop off in payouts is crazy!!!!

  • tonedefrob

    Did someone at DK have an aneurysm? The MLB opening day payouts for single entry/3 max, specifically at $3, $5 and $12, are….perfect.

    Seriously, are you being held captive for ripping off in NFL/NHL/NBA/PGA? Why the change of heart? Is this going to stick or will the top heavy grifting start a week into the season? I’m happily perplexed.

  • tonedefrob

    @tonedefrob said...

    Did someone at DK have an aneurysm? The MLB opening day payouts for single entry/3 max, specifically at $3, $5 and $12, are….perfect.

    Seriously, are you being held captive for ripping off in NFL/NHL/NBA/PGA? Why the change of heart? Is this going to stick or will the top heavy grifting start a week into the season? I’m happily perplexed.

    Your NHL payouts at same levels are great tomorrow night. I’m shocked.

    Hit or miss on NBA…$3 and $20 are great but $5 and $12 suck balls.

    Be. Consistent. Either suck or don’t. If you don’t regular players will be much happier.

  • ttucowboy84

    Hey DK, I’d like a reasonable explanation as to why y’all keep whiffing on the supply vs demand for the MMA Cards. Y’all had to know the UFC hookin on with ESPN would be good, right? I’m not even mad, just genuinely curious as to how y’all keep f’n that up.

  • ttucowboy84

    @tonedefrob said...

    Seriously, are you being held captive for ripping off in NFL/NHL/NBA/PGA? Why the change of heart? Is this going to stick or will the top heavy grifting start a week into the season? I’m happily perplexed.

    Great job at being counter intuitive. Smh. Its folks like this that remind me I was never cutout for customer service.

  • tonedefrob

    @ttucowboy84 said...

    Great job at being counter intuitive. Smh. Its folks like this that remind me I was never cutout for customer service.

    Same with me for people who use “y’all” and “smh”.

    Get a sense of humor.

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