INDUSTRY FORUM

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  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Remember that PPD a week ago for the WSH vs BAL game where they cancelled it despite no rain? i begged them for my money back cuz i had players from that game and they gave it back to me, 200 bucks. how fair is that to everyone else?

    i wasnt going to say anything, but i am seeing the recent posts about DK and ive had enough of the “integrity” team, which is total garbage.

  • Cpjttogether

    I can’t paste sht. My lap top is in the sacramento river.

  • tomac

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    You really believe that some higher volume players know before a slate starts that they can play high risk weather games and that DraftKings will refund them if the game is postponed? If you do believe that, you should close your DraftKings account right now and stop playing.

    Even Ryazan said he contacted them an hour after the game was postponed and “begged” for a refund. He had no idea he would get a refund and we have no idea the “story” he told DraftKings. Even if they did choose to refund him in some way, they reserve the right to do that on a case by case basis for many reasons.

    Well, I believe that if a high volume player is refunded in one instance due to weather, said high volume player is likely to request a refund the next time it happens. And if it truly is about keeping the high volume players happy, I believe that it is conceivable that they could be refunded again, yes.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @tomac said...

    Well, I believe that if a high volume player is refunded in one instance due to weather, said high volume player is likely to request a refund the next time it happens. And if it truly is about keeping the high volume players happy, I believe that it is conceivable that they could be refunded again, yes.

    Not just refunded, but be allowed to get away with certain things (scripting, collusion, knowing ownership %), nothing is off the table if DK gets to pick and choose on behalf of certain customers

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 187

      RG Overall Ranking

    @tomac said...

    Well, I believe that if a high volume player is refunded in one instance due to weather, said high volume player is likely to request a refund the next time it happens. And if it truly is about keeping the high volume players happy, I believe that it is conceivable that they could be refunded again, yes.

    And what if Ryazan isnt a high volume player anymore? His entries actually look a lot like yours over the past month so what does that do to your theory? You can’t honestly believe dk is refunding entries for the actual high volume players(10k+ a night in entries) on ppd games right? If anything, the examples given in this thread should show dk going out of its way to help out some little guys

  • jokerswild22

    @Ryazan said...

    As a stand alone, its no big deal that DK refunded me. But it clicked in my head that all of these issues are related….the Ethan thing from 2 years ago, the big players using scripts for the longest time, the possible collusion to override entry limits, ect ect – theres just something wrong with the overall picture eith DK, and no, i did not think like this before. And now they have an “integrity” team running around trying to make it seem like they are on top of everything

    P.S. draftkings also let me skirt around the monthly deposit limit by allowing me to wire thousands directly.from my bank. And no i actually broke even in DK so i didnt lose that money, but they also spot in the face of the MA regulation.

    I wish I could live in a bubble as delusional as yours.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 855

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    This thread reads to me as a ploy to rile up the crowd that criticizes the sites and industry no matter what. You guys should harness that energy for the real issues. If you complain about everything we’ll end up with more polarization and less constructive conversation. You may get 15 likes on your post from the same 15 people that are in every industry thread, but don’t confuse that with social proofing that will bring about positive change.

    Someone in DK customer service, either a rep or manager, made a decision here. DK has 100s of employees. The person that made this decision has nothing to do with the Game Integrity team. The person needs to be empowered to make decisions like this, and the framework for making those decisions should be regularly reviewed with his or her boss(es). Maybe their refund policy is fine, maybe they should change it. Maybe it is a work in progress. Whatever it is, I don’t think it should cross Matt Kalish’s desk and be included in Game Integrity conversations. I’d prefer those guys to be working on improving the ecosystem.

  • Jameson12

    @JustDFSin said...

    Your right on what you just said but it goes a little deeper than that. If someone has the knowledge beforehand that they will get there money back if a game is ppd that changes competitive edge. You have to keep in mind you are competing against other players. if you know a site will refund your money in the case of a ppd. It allows you to take chances on ppd without no risk. That is where the problem lies. That creates an advantage regardless of bankroll.

    This is the 100 percent truth and it does give them an advantage and thus where the problem arises. You have guys putting lineups in thinking they are on a freeroll while others are treating it like a normal paid contest where they could lose players to a PPD. If true, it is a garbage move.

  • Cpjttogether

    Ya cal is right I think on this one. I dont know if its that big a deal either. If I’m gonna pick my battles to complain this one isn’t really it and I’m down 6 grand .

  • tomac

    @Cal said...

    This thread reads to me as a ploy to rile up the crowd that criticizes the sites and industry no matter what. You guys should harness that energy for the real issues. If you complain about everything we’ll end up with more polarization and less constructive conversation. You may get 15 likes on your post from the same 15 people that are in every industry thread, but don’t confuse that with social proofing that will bring about positive change.

    Someone in DK customer service, either a rep or manager, made a decision here. DK has 100s of employees. The person that made this decision has nothing to do with the Game Integrity team. The person needs to be empowered to make decisions like this, and the framework for making those decisions should be regularly reviewed with his or her boss(es). Maybe their refund policy is fine, maybe they should change it. Maybe it is a work in progress. Whatever it is, I don’t think it should cross Matt Kalish’s desk and be included in Game Integrity conversations. I’d prefer those guys to be working on improving the ecosystem.

    It also got the crowd who defends the industry no matter what to quickly get to work. You can’t have polarization without two sides.

  • ndogg78

    @Jameson12 said...

    This is the 100 percent truth and it does give them an advantage and thus where the problem arises. You have guys putting lineups in thinking they are on a freeroll while others are treating it like a normal paid contest where they could lose players to a PPD. If true, it is a garbage move.

    Pretty incredible to watch this thread go from Ryazan getting a $200 refund to now all high volume players are getting entry fees back.

  • BmoreClutch

    @blackout8 said...

    I just finished going through something similar yesterday and this morning about the whole cancelled early slate deal. I had a lineup in the $33 entry fastball that would have been really really good. I’m not sure if it would have came in 1st place but I would be shocked if it wouldn’t have placed in the top 10 and that was just my best lineup. I had few more in the $33 and $4 max 20 that probably would have cashed decent as well.

    So when I wake up yesterday morning and go back to review my lineups I’m obviously pretty heated because I realize how good they would have been so I email support and express my frustration. I get an email back within about 15-20 minutes and the CS rep gives me the customary “We’re sorry. We know you’re frustrated…” etc, etc. But he also asks how much I had in entry fees for the contests. I email him back with the total (It was a little under $300) and a few minutes later he emails me back saying he credited my account with that amount in bonus funds.

    So I message back and say thanks but I really feel like the amount I would have won was much greater than the amount of those bonus funds. We go back a forth throughout the day as I make my case and mostly vent about how terrible DK handled the situation. I also had proof of my lineup (screenshots, csv file that I uploaded and so on) and they obviously knew I was telling the truth because they could still look at what my lineups were even though they “had no way to tell how the contests would have played out” since they were cancelled. Eventually, they gave me a free ticket to the $444 entry grand slam for tonight.

    I feel like I definitely would have won a lot more than the total of the bonus funds and the value of the free ticket but I guess it’s better than nothing. I’m still extremely pissed off at how DK handled the whole situation but I must say the customer support rep I went back and forth with was EXCELLENT. I don’t think I waited longer than 20-30 minutes for a response and most of them were within 5-10. I don’t consider myself a high volume player by any means. I probably average $200-$300 in entry fees a night for MLB (my favorite and best sport) but like Stewburtx8 I have played pretty much every day for the past 5 years on the big 3 sports (MLB, NFL and NBA).

    I talked to a DK rep after reading this post. I had at most $40 in play on the slate that was cancelled. At first he wasn’t willing to do anything. I explained to him that I felt my LU would have won some solid money (compared to my entry fees). Which I really do believe considering my LU had guys like Pinder, Frazier, Suarez, Harrison, Dickerson, Mesoraco, Scherzer, Nova.

    Once I explained that he offered me 2 $1 tickets. I didn’t respond right away and he threw in another $3 ticket because I missed the free roll. Obviously nowhere near what I could have potentially won. I wasn’t expecting a grand slam ticket, but I thought I should have at least gotten tickets to match my entry amount of around $40.

    So yes DK will help you out if your force the issue and you’re honest.

    With all that said it’s a completely different situation than what Ryazan posted (again if true).

  • kb32dawgs

    @BmoreClutch said...

    Some of the comparisons being thrown around in this thread are absurd. A site giving you and your family tickets to an actual sports game is not comparable to a high level player getting a refund because 1 game was postponed on a slate. That game being postponed affected a lot of people. If 1 person got a refund then everyone who rostered players from that game should get a refund.

    The DFS industry could light a box of puppies on fire and some people would still defend them. They’re afraid of anything remotely negative that could affect their precious DFS.

    Spot the F$%K on! Most of the people defending this action are high rollers themselves and would get the same treatment. These sites just continue to kick their own selves in the ass.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @tomac said...

    It also got the crowd who defends the industry no matter what to quickly get to work. You can’t have polarization without two sides.

    I’ve criticized DraftKings quite a bit over the years, especially when it comes to optics and their inability to be proactive before situations arise. They are not even good at being reactive. DraftKings has done a lot wrong over the years.

    But this is not a situation to criticize. It’s crazy to me that it is being spun in that direction. High volume players are not being refunded every time they play someone in a game that is postponed. Actually it is really shitty of Ryazan, after DraftKings did him a favor/was generous when they did nothing wrong, to run here and post about this as a negative. If anything, it would give DraftKings incentive to help people out less if they do not even get any goodwill from those they have helped/tried to make whole over the years. That is not a good thing for anyone.

  • kb32dawgs

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    I’ve criticized DraftKings quite a bit over the years, especially when it comes to optics and their inability to be proactive before situations arise. They are not even good at being reactive. DraftKings has done a lot wrong over the years.

    But this is not a situation to criticize. It’s crazy to me that it is being spun in that direction. High volume players are not being refunded every time they play someone in a game that is postponed. Actually it is really shitty of Ryazan, after DraftKings did him a favor/was generous when they did nothing wrong, to run here and post about this as a negative. If anything, it would give DraftKings incentive to help people out less if they do not even get any goodwill from those they have helped/tried to make whole over the years. That is not a good thing for anyone.

    Its just another example of how DK bends its own rules to make high rollers happy. If this was a casino and the casino gives freebies and paybacks to keep a player coming back then that’s one thing but when we are playing against each other and not the house, this is a huge slap in the face to the casual player. What if I asked for my money back due to the game being PPD and DK said no but refunded a high roller when they asked. In what world do you see that as fair play?

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 187

      RG Overall Ranking

    @kb32dawgs said...

    Its just another example of how DK bends its own rules to make high rollers happy. If this was a casino and the casino gives freebies and paybacks to keep a player coming back then that’s one thing but when we are playing against each other and not the house, this is a huge slap in the face to the casual player. What if I asked for my money back due to the game being PPD and DK said no but refunded a high roller when they asked. In what world do you see that as fair play?

    as I stated earlier Ryazan doesn’t appear to be a high roller anymore. He’s mostly playing the $3 contests from his profile logs. He had $200 in play that day. This isn’t papagates getting refunded 50k he had in play on a slate. If dk refunded every high roller for even a single slate with a ppd it would probably knock off a good percentage of their monthly profit this time of year. It’s not happening. It’s never happened. It never will.

  • ndogg78

    @kb32dawgs said...

    Its just another example of how DK bends its own rules to make high rollers happy.

    I’m not sure this statement is accurate considering that there is an earlier post where someone received a couple of $1 tickets and a $3 ticket on about $40 of entry fees.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @kb32dawgs said...

    Its just another example of how DK bends its own rules to make high rollers happy. If this was a casino and the casino gives freebies and paybacks to keep a player coming back then that’s one thing but when we are playing against each other and not the house, this is a huge slap in the face to the casual player. What if I asked for my money back due to the game being PPD and DK said no but refunded a high roller when they asked. In what world do you see that as fair play?

    It’s how all business works. Bigger, higher volume customers get better prices/deals. Hell, new customers often do as well. DraftKings is no different. Whether you are playing against someone who entered using their own money or a “free” ticket from DraftKings, it should make no difference. What if someone used FPP’s to purchase a ticket to enter a contest? Do you have a problem with that? Higher volume players earn A LOT more FPP’s than the casual player so they are able to buy a lot more contest tickets from the VIP store.

    I am not a high volume player. More of a consistent, mid/lower stakes player across multiple sports. I have maybe emailed DraftKings 15-20 times over the last 5 years due to a variety of issues/questions. Several times I have received nothing but a quick response and apology for my experience. A couple times I received tickets/bonuses that were less than my buy-ins. A couple times I have received tickets and/or bonuses that were greater than my initial buy-in or closer to my potential winnings. I see nothing wrong with this. DraftKings should look at every support ticket/complaint on a case by case basis. I’ve heard of many small time/casual players being given $1-3 tickets as well.

    We also have no idea what “story” Ryazan told DraftKings. I still find it hard to believe he just emailed them saying he had players in a PPD game and wanted a refund and they simply said, we have refunded every dollar you had in play.

  • kb32dawgs

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    It’s how all business works. Bigger, higher volume customers get better prices/deals. Hell, new customers often do as well. DraftKings is no different. Whether you are playing against someone who entered using their own money or a “free” ticket from DraftKings, it should make no difference. What if someone used FPP’s to purchase a ticket to enter a contest? Do you have a problem with that? Higher volume players earn A LOT more FPP’s than the casual player so they are able to buy a lot more contest tickets from the VIP store.

    I am not a high volume player. More of a consistent, mid/lower stakes player across multiple sports. I have maybe emailed DraftKings 15-20 times over the last 5 years due to a variety of issues/questions. Several times I have received nothing but a quick response and apology for my experience. A couple times I received tickets/bonuses that were less than my buy-ins. A couple times I have received tickets and/or bonuses that were greater than my initial buy-in or closer to my potential winnings. I see nothing wrong with this. DraftKings should look at every support ticket/complaint on a case by case basis. I’ve heard of many small time/casual players being given $1-3 tickets as well.

    We also have no idea what “story” Ryazan told DraftKings. I still find it hard to believe he just emailed them saying he had players in a PPD game and wanted a refund and they simply said, we have refunded every dollar you had in play.

    Just so I’m clear, I lost money that day due to the PPD and Ryazan lost but got his money back? And that’s ok?

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @kb32dawgs said...

    Just so I’m clear, I lost money that day due to the PPD and Ryazan lost but got his money back? And that’s ok?

    Yes, it is OK. But I will believe it if I see that he actually got a full refund for his contest entries and it did not come in the form of tickets/bonuses for his inconvenience. I’ve never seen DraftKings give a full cash refund unless there was an issue on their end.

    But did you email DraftKings about your “issue” that day? Do you feel you deserved a refund for any reason on that date? Should they refund every entry that is affected anytime a game gets postponed? Like I said, maybe he came up with a good story about how he tried to edit his lineup before the game started but had an issue with the app or website. But again, I have no issue with DraftKings occasionally giving perks to better customers or even newer customers (unless it would somehow create an unfair advantage for someone else playing in the same contests).

  • fighton2016

    This is hilarious. “This is just how business is done” “It’s like a casino”

    Other companies give their biggest clients better deals because THERE ARE SUBSTITUTES. Casinos pay for the rooms of their biggest spenders because if they didnt, they could walk 5 steps to the right and spend the same amount of money at another casino.

    Draftkings and Fanduel have what a 95% market share in the industry? AND THEY ARE MERGING. If they did not give top players perks, what would happen? NOTHING. Are the top volume players going to switch from playing DK to FantasyDraft? NO. There are only 2 real sites that can support a high volume player’s salary and most of the high stakes players need to play on both.

    All the top players on here are defending DK because they receive the kickbacks. This is discouraging to know and since im the average joe playing, it makes me want to play less knowing that no matter if i make a better lineup one night, the pockets of the top players continue to get filled.

  • ndogg78

    @kb32dawgs said...

    Just so I’m clear, I lost money that day due to the PPD and Ryazan lost but got his money back? And that’s ok?

    It’s not like Draftkings just decided to reimburse Ryazan for no reason. He “begged” and received his money back.

  • DefinitelyMiami

    @tomac said...

    It also got the crowd who defends the industry no matter what to quickly get to work. You can’t have polarization without two sides.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    To be clear, they just put the money back into my account, no tickets or FPP’s

  • mambaland

    OH MY a company giving its customers a refund when they are big consumers..they often do this as well as other items. not a big deal. Play more get more.

  • kb32dawgs

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    Yes, it is OK. But I will believe it if I see that he actually got a full refund for his contest entries and it did not come in the form of tickets/bonuses for his inconvenience. I’ve never seen DraftKings give a full cash refund unless there was an issue on their end.

    But did you email DraftKings about your “issue” that day? Do you feel you deserved a refund for any reason on that date? Should they refund every entry that is affected anytime a game gets postponed? Like I said, maybe he came up with a good story about how he tried to edit his lineup before the game started but had an issue with the app or website. But again, I have no issue with DraftKings giving perks to better customers or even newer customers (unless it would somehow create an unfair advantage for someone else playing in the same contests). It’s the way business works.

    Hell no I do not deserve a refund. I knew there was a risk of PPD although it was unlikely. But NO ONE deserves a refund for that slate. After lock if a game is PPD, then that’s the risk we took, plain and simple.

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