NBA FORUM

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  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    Hi everyone — NBA Late Swap has been a passionate topic of discussion within the DFS player community over the past few years.

    Because the status of injured and inactive players in the NBA is often unknown until minutes before tip-off, our users have shared a strong desire to swap players out of a lineup(s), so long as the listed start time of player’s game has not passed.

    We also recognize there are pros/cons with enabling late swap versus no late swap feature. On one hand, offering late swap could help a user avoid a “zero” scoring player on their lineup(s). On the other hand, no late swap feature, allows a user to set their lineups without the need for last minute lineup adjustments after breaking news.

    Therefore, throughout each sport season we survey active players about their playing experience and request product feedback. From 2015-2017, NBA user survey results indicated our users were split ~50%/50% when asked if DraftKings should offer late swap.

    During the 2017-2018 we saw a slight shift in sentiment, now strongly in favor of bringing back NBA Late Swap: – The return of NBA Late Swap was the #1 contest enhancement request. – 75% of players surveyed said they would be either “very interested” or “somewhat interested” in the return of Late Swap.

    Given the increase in customer demand for this feature, our main offering for NBA will offer the Late Swap feature on Classic and Tiers game formats for the 2018-2019 season. Late Swap is not necessary for Showdown Captain Mode game formats.

    As the game and community demand evolves, so does DraftKings. The NBA contest managers will be looking at Late Swap utilization and entry trends at the start of the season, and may adjust as the needs and demands of our players evolve.

    Steven & Christie, DraftKings Community Team

  • AxeGrinder

    I really have no idea why you changed it but I am quite happy that late swap is back.

  • Njsum1

    @Cooper08 said...

    Perhaps DK community can provide the numbers (doubtful as it wouldn’t be in there best interest) from the last nba season that had late swap. Many will be surprised at how many people didn’t swap and how many swapped but only one player. Those numbers far outweigh the people who swapped multiple players and swapped players that were not ruled out.

    I had my best NBA seasons without late swap. I’m your prototypical casual low limit player who enjoys DFS especially NBA. Late swap benefits people willing to monitor news and reoptimize lineups all night long. As well as those who fill out dummy lineups then reoptimize as news breaks. It especially benefits those with advanced programming/computer skills.

    I’m for late swap as long as it’s a 1 for 1 swap. I’d love late swap for NBA if DK can figure out a way to only unlock the scratched player. Full on late swap, is too time consuming. I can compete when lineups lock at 7, not when I’m redoing lineups up until 1030…full on late swap, no thanks. Research also matters less, it’s now about reacting to news.

    For those casuals jumping for joy, careful what you wish for, cause you just got it.

  • Trappist1

    @Njsum1 said...

    I had my best NBA seasons without late swap. I’m your prototypical casual low limit player who enjoys DFS especially NBA. Late swap benefits people willing to monitor news and reoptimize lineups all night long. As well as those who fill out dummy lineups then reoptimize as news breaks. It especially benefits those with advanced programming/computer skills.

    I’m for late swap as long as it’s a 1 for 1 swap. I’d love late swap for NBA if DK can figure out a way to only unlock the scratched player. Full on late swap, is too time consuming. I can compete when lineups lock at 7, not when I’m redoing lineups up until 1030…full on late swap, no thanks. Research also matters less, it’s now about reacting to news.

    For those casuals jumping for joy, careful what you wish for, cause you just got it.

    I actually got turned off by NBA DFS due to the daily amateurish nonsense of will they play or will they sit and coaches playing silly mind games. The issue is not so much late swap or no late swap, it is NBA the league not enforcing team reporting rules which all teams have to follow. All other sports follow rules on team news reporting, in soccer and NFL you get an hour before the games. In MLB/NHL team news are announced in a timely fashion. I can understand DK’s predicament when it comes to NBA. I will truly jump for joy if NBA enforced teams news reporting rules on all the teams. Late swap is not going to save us from scratches that happen a minuter after games lock which is a norm in NBA.

  • Jvanspro

    I’ll just continue to play on FD so I can have my evening. Also I’m sure the games will be easier now on FD.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Jvanspro said...

    I’ll just continue to play on FD so I can have my evening. Also I’m sure the games will be easier now on FD.

    Same.. if they don’t change as well. As I said to someone else on twitter, my wife is VERY supportive of DFS, until lineup lock. Then it’s the occasional look at scores and away from my PC, where I do all my work.

    If FD switches as well, I will be playing much less NBA this season.

    Njsum1 said it very well. Most casuals simply do not understand the advantage this gives the hard core players/pro’s. They just think of the times they get burnt (completely ignoring how many times it benefited them when a player gets scratched not in their lineups).

    BUT, the numbers have spoken.

  • noddy

    @bhdevault said...

    Same.. if they don’t change as well. As I said to someone else on twitter, my wife is VERY supportive of DFS, until lineup lock. Then it’s the occasional look at scores and away from my PC, where I do all my work.

    If FD switches as well, I will be playing much less NBA this season.

    Njsum1 said it very well. Most casuals simply do not understand the advantage this gives the hard core players/pro’s. They just think of the times they get burnt (completely ignoring how many times it benefited them when a player gets scratched not in their lineups).

    BUT, the numbers have spoken.

    can the pros play in the cash games under $5?

  • jrob2517

    I’m with you, has everyone forgotten the joy of editing lineups on DraftKings with the page loading issues? I can’t imagine crunch time during NBA until this gets addressed. If it gets fixed great, if not there will be many frustrated players who can’t make their late swaps.

  • Jvanspro

    Whether you are for or against late swap I encourage everyone to watch this video. Fast Eddie does an excellent job explaining how it’s a massive disadvantage for the casual player. Whether you are for it or against it, it doesn’t matter. Just understand unless you’re reoptimizing multiple times a night you are losing and have the disadvantage.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAcpVepMumA

  • damionismyname

    @Jvanspro said...

    Whether you are for or against late swap I encourage everyone to watch this video. Fast Eddie does an excellent job explaining how it’s a massive disadvantage for the casual player. Whether you are for it or against it, it doesn’t matter. Just understand unless you’re reoptimizing multiple times a night you are losing and have the disadvantage.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAcpVepMumA

    for most casuals I don’t see how this is an issue since for them it’s “casual”, meaning you just play to just have some action or because its fun. If casuals get upset then they are more than casual players and they will still have the express, turbo, and late slates for you to play. If all the other sports have it then there is no reason the sport that needs it the most not to have it. I would rather not take a 0 and have the opportunity to late swap then lose my entry fee. I have also never looked back and saw how it has benefited me because it mostly hasn’t and if so it wasn’t for large amount of money. Having late swap gives me a shot without having to hedge my bets on 40 different lineup combos because half the Pelicans have the flu and are questionable.

  • Cooper08

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Cooper08 said...

    Hopefully your utilization and trends will eventually lead you to allowing only being able to swap for a player that has been ruled out after lock and not multiple changes. In addition hopefully it will lead to not being able to make any swaps unless a player is ruled out. While many are excited for late swap I don’t think they understand how detrimental this is to the casual player.

    Finally, we have some people that understand what I said hours ago…..Thanks!

  • Jvanspro

    @damionismyname said...

    for most casuals I don’t see how this is an issue since for them it’s “casual”, meaning you just play to just have some action or because its fun. If casuals get upset then they are more than casual players and they will still have the express, turbo, and late slates for you to play. If all the other sports have it then there is no reason the sport that needs it the most not to have it. I would rather not take a 0 and have the opportunity to late swap then lose my entry fee. I have also never looked back and saw how it has benefited me because it mostly hasn’t and if so it wasn’t for large amount of money. Having late swap gives me a shot without having to hedge my bets on 40 different lineup combos because half the Pelicans have the flu and are questionable.

    That’s exactly what you’re missing though. It does affect you much more then you realize. Late swap was never and has never been about swapping one guy cause he’s out. If you are using it this way, you’re doing it wrong and are a fish.

  • Jvanspro

    @Cooper08 said...

    Finally, we have some people that understand what I said hours ago…..Thanks!

    Bingo. All for this..

  • KindGuy

    Late swap or not, I’m still gonna kick all your asses.

    Good luck this season!

  • damionismyname

    @Jvanspro said...

    That’s exactly what you’re missing though. It does affect you much more then you realize. Late swap was never and has never been about swapping one guy cause he’s out. If you are using it this way, you’re doing it wrong and are a fish.

    I use it multiple ways, I use it when ppl get scratched and I use it to see the future. Meaning i know there are only a few outcomes in specific games so I leave my utility to make a swap to any position I need to gain an edge with the late games and if you’re not using it that way as well then you should just play another dfs sport or play the other slates. Ppl do the same thing with football every Sunday or for the Thurs-Mon slates. I guarantee tomorrow some ppl will only play the one player they think is going to ball out and fill in the rest of their lineup accordingly on Sunday morning to gain an edge. Again I would rather be able to use it to my advantage and try to salvage my night than take a 0 and let the guy who max entered and hedged with 25 other lineups win outright because he could afford to lose a few entries. You guys don’t seem to see that part of the equation.

  • damionismyname

    @elementasrat said...

    Late swap or not, I’m still gonna kick all your asses.

    Good luck this season!


  • Pandamonious

    • 809

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #90

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • Moderator

    • 2020 Blogger of the Month

    This is all getting blown out of proportion. NBA players getting late scratched isn’t some nightly occasion. The NBA has also made some changes since late swap last existed. They’ve spread the season out a couple weeks longer so teams had more off days during the season and also have started punishing teams for resting players without notice. There were very few late scratches last year. Usually you know who will be sitting or at least might be sitting before lock. Saying it’s a disadvantage to the casual player is being a bit short sighted.

    Yes, if Steph Curry gets ruled out after lock, pros are smart enough to leave their utility spot open and another spot or two before lock in their line up open for switching as the night goes and get off say, Devin Booker, switch to Durant, and make other suitable changes that reflect the overall impact of the late games with that news. That’s one obvious example.

    The casual player may just flip Curry to another PG/SG player and that’s it. At least though they can now switch. Still have a chance to cash and not get angry that they were screwed over by late news and want to give up on DFS because their most expensive player got them 0.

  • dbullsfan

    • Ranked #86

      RG Tiered Ranking

    If you are worried about the pros and their mme strategies and advantages using late swap just play single entry or 3 entry max. There is no rule that says you have to play the big gpps

  • damionismyname

    @Pandamonious said...

    This is all getting blown out of proportion. NBA players getting late scratched isn’t some nightly occasion. The NBA has also made some changes since late swap last existed. They’ve spread the season out a couple weeks longer so teams had more off days during the season and also have started punishing teams for resting players without notice. There were very few late scratches last year. Usually you know who will be sitting or at least might be sitting before lock. Saying it’s a disadvantage to the casual player is being a bit short sighted.

    Yes, if Steph Curry gets ruled out after lock, pros are smart enough to leave their utility spot open and another spot or two before lock in their line up open for switching as the night goes and get off say, Devin Booker, switch to Durant, and make other suitable changes that reflect the overall impact of the late games with that news. That’s one obvious example.

    The casual player may just flip Curry to another PG/SG player and that’s it. At least though they can now switch. Still have a chance to cash and not get angry that they were screwed over by late news and want to give up on DFS because their most expensive player got them 0.

  • mtdurham

    @bsize30 said...

    Having a player in your lineup get 0 sucks but at least thats an even playing field, professionals being able to re-optimize their entire lineups around breaking news absolutely crushes the already small chance casual players have to win. It’s surprising so few seem to realize this.

    Yep, this is a giant loss for the ‘casual’ player and a giant win for the professional/hardcore player.

    I don’t want to be out at dinner with my wife checking my phone constantly and supplementing with my tablet following 400 NBA sources on twitter to see if Dante Exum has decided to “give it a go” in Utah that night. When I sneak away to the bathroom at dinner I’m trying to buy time to text the girl I work with, flirt with the waitress, or partake in extracurricular activities my wife doesnt approve of. Not to find out if there’s anyone under $3,800 with Small Forward eligibility playing for the Phoenix Suns. At home I don’t want to shuffle 75 lineups around on my computer when I’m basically computer illiterate when it comes to that sort of thing. I also don’t want to shuffle 75 lineups around that are off to a bad/good start to optimize my chances of profiting based on projected ownership and the depth of my necessary comeback or the size of the cushion of my lead.

    Now you might say, but mtdurham you’re not married, you never go out to dinner, and you never play Dante Exum.

    And you’d be right.

    But in theory, I am right.

    “Set it and Forget it”

  • KindGuy

    @Jvanspro said...

    Whether you are for or against late swap I encourage everyone to watch this video. Fast Eddie does an excellent job explaining how it’s a massive disadvantage for the casual player. Whether you are for it or against it, it doesn’t matter. Just understand unless you’re reoptimizing multiple times a night you are losing and have the disadvantage.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAcpVepMumA

    I’m surprised this wasn’t deleted as Eddie now works for a competitor. Lol.

  • mtdurham

    @damionismyname said...

    its not an even field when the pros have max entered and have every other possible combo to replace that guy who may or may not play. If I’m playing $10 in entries and the slate locks and someone gets late scratched in the west coast game I would be done without late swap. At least now I know my money isn’t just wasted. Good move on their part and for those who don’t like it, like I said, there are express and late night slates that you can comfortably play and you can always still set it and forget it.

    This is an example of classic “Protectionist” faulty line of thinking.

    When we subsidize the sugar industry it’s easy to see the 4,500 American jobs we saved but it’s harder to see the $0.02/lb artificial tax we create on sugar that gets passed on to the consumer as well as industries that rely on sugar as an ingredient.

    It’s even harder to see the LOSS of productivity that’s created by the misallocation of resources when those workers could find a job that is actually beneficial to the economy as a whole instead.

    You see the “late swap” as a way to avoid a Zero a few times a year…. guess what….most of those entries are dog doodoo anyway… and we’re still going to finish out of the money….sometimes you’ll get lucky and mincash…congratulations…thats what we all got into this for, right? To win $1.50 by substituting Marcus Morris in for Michael Kidd Gilchrist!

    What you don’t see is that one of these days you were slated to score big and win $4,000…. but the pros mass entry late swaps reduced your win to a mere $120….because they covered up every freaking angle you had to victory… they played the blockers, the consistent scorers, and the longshots…

    Ultimately, this will concentrate the winnings amongst the select few who are equipped to benefit from it… and it will ultimately reduce the prize pools, the re-deposits, and the rake generated….

    The late swap helped level the playing field and protect you from getting railroaded like a flapper girl from Jackson, Mississippi every night The fact that people can’t see that is beyond absurd to me.

    People are just so freaking good at overestimating their abilities and underestimating their liabilities…

  • Pandamonious

    • 809

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #90

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • Moderator

    • 2020 Blogger of the Month

    @elementasrat said...

    I’m surprised this wasn’t deleted as Eddie now works for a competitor. Lol.

    They’re all in it together conspiring against us.

  • damionismyname

    @mtdurham said...

    Yep, this is a giant loss for the ‘casual’ player and a giant win for the professional/hardcore player.

    I don’t want to be out at dinner with my wife checking my phone constantly and supplementing with my tablet following 400 NBA sources on twitter to see if Dante Exum has decided to “give it a go” in Utah that night. When I sneak away to the bathroom I’m trying to buy time to text the girl I work with or partake in extracurricular activities. Not to find out if there’s anyone under $3,800 with Small Forward eligibility playing for the Phoenix Suns. At home I don’t want to shuffle 75 lineups around on my computer when I’m basically computer illiterate when it comes to that sort of thing. I also don’t want to shuffle 75 lineups around that are off to a bad/good start to optimize my chances of profiting based on projected ownership and the depth of my necessary comeback or the size of the cushion of my lead.

    Now you might say, but mtdurham you’re not married, you never go out to dinner, and you never play Dante Exum.

    And you’d be right.

    But in theory, I am right.

    “Set it and Forget it”

    if you’re playing 75 lineups then you are not a “casual player” and as such you should be more invested in those lineups. If not and you are so flippant about said lineups then keep setting and forgetting and hope you’ve cashed in the morning. Nobody is making you check you phone while you are doing drugs or sexting in the bathroom stall.

  • tbird05

    Late swap is a necessary evil.

    I don’t think having late swap/no late swap moves the needle for the “Casual” players win rate. I would have to see the data. I think the pros are winning the same regardless. I think some people aren’t considering with no late-swap, it’s the pros that are more likely to take a chance on a guy who’s has a “Questionable” tag. They aren’t worried about their night being ruined by possibly getting a “0” in one of their spots. When a questionable Devin Booker is 3%, it’s most likely the pros taking advantage in large field tournaments.

  • mtdurham

    @bhdevault said...

    Same.. if they don’t change as well. As I said to someone else on twitter, my wife is VERY supportive of DFS, until lineup lock. Then it’s the occasional look at scores and away from my PC, where I do all my work.

    If FD switches as well, I will be playing much less NBA this season.

    Njsum1 said it very well. Most casuals simply do not understand the advantage this gives the hard core players/pro’s. They just think of the times they get burnt (completely ignoring how many times it benefited them when a player gets scratched not in their lineups).

    BUT, the numbers have spoken.

    The numbers may have temporarily spoken, but when they go broke people will vote with their feet/wallet by no longer playing.

    I for one am totally out when it comes to 20 max and 150 max NBA contests. That’s just lighting money on fire without the requisite computer programming skills, time to burn, and no life away from the DFS landscape.

    Single Entry, 3-max? Eh Ill take my chances… The advantage is greatly mitigated and if late breaking news comes out I have the ability to change a handful of lineups.

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