PGA FORUM

Comments

  • RangerC

    Last 4 $3/4 big golf tourneys on DK:

    Safeway Open: filled 76K of 78K (DK only got 11% rake on this one, but still 28K in profit)

    CIMB Classic: filled early at 39.2K (understandable to cut it down as this is a crappy no-cut event out of the country, but half the size??)

    WGC in China: filled way early (around a day, I think) at 39.2K (again, no-cut out of the country, still too small)

    Shriners Open: posted contest is a 29.4K entry $4 tourney (joke)

    Then we have the consistent killing of the Euro product – Lyoness Open filled a 10K entry tourney with the worst field ever in DFS golf – ever since then we’ve had tourneys of 8K, 5K, and even 3.5K entries (EURO golf has always filled at 10K or less, and has often been shrunk the week after filling – only overlay happened when running larger tourneys (which might have filled if DK hadn’t killed off interest in the product earlier). Race to Dubai finals start next week…. with a 4.7K entry $3.

    Want to know why DK is a failing business? Just look at how they handled their golf product. They’re sacrificing BOTH short-term (the non-filling Safeway Open $3 made $10k more rake than the Shriners will when it fills) and long-term profit (running big contests like the MM legitimized Fantasy Golf and created a market for the game – went from a niche game to filling 150K $3 tourneys for mediocre events) for what seems to be no reason other than insane risk aversion.

  • walkoff9

    They did the exact same thing last year. There is just no logical explanation for it. Even during the summer contests were filling 12 hours before lock and they would not increase them.

    They may start getting to a point where the contests stop filling because they are too small. Who is going to do research on the euro events and enter a bunch of lineups when first place is not even $1k.

    It’s just bad decision after bad decision, not listening to what customers say and the evidence that is right in front of them. How about the olympic week….why not send a survey out and ask people if they would rather play the olympic slate or the regular pga even….would have gotten overwelming feedback in favor of pga event.

  • jjwd

    When the big guys merge, maybe Aces will get more traffic and become the truly responsive, customer friendly site. There’s certainly a market for it.

  • clint08911

    I agree here, I’m not a huge golf fan, but I think it converts well to fantasy and find it to be one of the most fun games to play. I wonder why they don’t have any 50/50 contests, it seems like there is very little risk in that for them

  • billholler

    They have done the same thing with Nascar which still fills but with a lot fewer entries. Doesn’t make any sense. I have sent multiple emails about both Nascar and PGA and have NEVER received a response. I find that odd when you can usually send a random question about anything and get a canned crap response.

  • joonyari22

    • Blogger of the Month

    Any chance this is because we are in the heart of NFL and the start of NBA season so that is the main focus for DK? I only play PGA once NFL is over…don’t have the time to research 3 sports. Is there any data out there that shows the size of PGA contests during and after NFL season? It would be interesting to see that.

  • billholler

    @joonyari22 said...

    Any chance this is because we are in the heart of NFL and the start of NBA season so that is the main focus for DK?

    Both started this garbage in late July. PGA had a few exceptions thrown in for a week or 2. I quit playing PGA at the end of the season and haven’t played Nascar in almost 2 months. Two months ago I was a max entry player in both sports and played a significant number of cash games.

  • DomTwan

    They are leaving money on the table, and it doesn’t make much sense.

    The only theory I have is that the merger with FD will eliminate DFS Golf as we know it.

  • ohiostate241

    • 2014 FAFC Finalist

    • 2015 FAWBC Finalist

    @DomTwan said...

    They are leaving money on the table, and it doesn’t make much sense.

    The only theory I have is that the merger with FD will eliminate DFS Golf as we know it.

    FanDuel sent out a golf survey a few weeks ago, so they are definitely exploring it.

  • baggerly

    So you fill 2 limited field, no cut events, $100k birdies ($3 entry) located in China that start at 9PM Eastern on Wednesday, so instead of at least bumping it up a little for an actual PGA event ,you actually decrease the size of the event with the $4 entry???? I don’t know about you all but I was expecting a $200k birdie and dogleg. Instead we get a $100k fore and $100k dogleg.

  • baggerly

    @RangerC said...

    Last 4 $3/4 big golf tourneys on DK:

    Safeway Open: filled 76K of 78K (DK only got 11% rake on this one, but still 28K in profit)

    CIMB Classic: filled early at 39.2K (understandable to cut it down as this is a crappy no-cut event out of the country, but half the size??)

    WGC in China: filled way early (around a day, I think) at 39.2K (again, no-cut out of the country, still too small)

    Shriners Open: posted contest is a 29.4K entry $4 tourney (joke)

    Then we have the consistent killing of the Euro product – Lyoness Open filled a 10K entry tourney with the worst field ever in DFS golf – ever since then we’ve had tourneys of 8K, 5K, and even 3.5K entries (EURO golf has always filled at 10K or less, and has often been shrunk the week after filling – only overlay happened when running larger tourneys (which might have filled if DK hadn’t killed off interest in the product earlier). Race to Dubai finals start next week…. with a 4.7K entry $3.

    Want to know why DK is a failing business? Just look at how they handled their golf product. They’re sacrificing BOTH short-term (the non-filling Safeway Open $3 made $10k more rake than the Shriners will when it fills) and long-term profit (running big contests like the MM legitimized Fantasy Golf and created a market for the game – went from a niche game to filling 150K $3 tourneys for mediocre events) for what seems to be no reason other than insane risk aversion.

    I used a lot of this post and sent to support. I wish someone would actually explain why they are so bad with their golf (and NASCAR for that) product but I’m sure we will get some canned response.

  • billholler

    @baggerly said...

    I used a lot of this post and sent to support. I wish someone would actually explain why they are so bad with their golf (and NASCAR for that) product but I’m sure we will get some canned response.

    I know there are at least 2 DK reps that are members here and they will sometimes pop in with a canned response which means they actually read the threads.

  • 2ndincome

    They have absolutely ruined NASCAR for no reason. All big contests filled and they keep killing prize pools

  • 7thdaymoneytime

    Fanduel has been very risk averse with regards to golf, mma, nascar (they don’t offer it). DK could be trying to phase these out before merger.

  • DomTwan

    @baggerly said...

    So you fill 2 limited field, no cut events, $100k birdies ($3 entry) located in China that start at 9PM Eastern on Wednesday, so instead of at least bumping it up a little for an actual PGA event ,you actually decrease the size of the event with the $4 entry???? I don’t know about you all but I was expecting a $200k birdie and dogleg. Instead we get a $100k fore and $100k dogleg.

    Just not sure of the reasoning behind this from DK.

    Someone needs to be fired, because they are ultimately costing their company additional revenue.

  • billholler

    @DomTwan said...

    Someone needs to be fired, because they are ultimately costing their company additional revenue.

    I imagine there is a group of people responsible for this decision which leads me to believe that a majority of the employees at DK are complete fools. Maybe they don’t realize the purpose of being in business is to make a profit.

  • baggerly

    @DomTwan said...

    Just not sure of the reasoning behind this from DK.

    Someone needs to be fired, because they are ultimately costing their company additional revenue.

    I totally understand being cautious but there is a big difference in cautious and just dumb. I don’t remember one contest (other than the EURO week where there was no PGA and maybe the milly makers) in the past year where DK actually lost money on any GOLF contest. Maybe not filled to reach the 15% rake or whatever number they were at at that point but at least covered the prize fees. What’s going to end up happening is these contests are going to get smaller and smaller because they aren’t going to fill and they will think there isn’t interest, when there is a ton of interest for GOLF, NASCAR, NHL, and MMA but they are doing a piss poor job sizing their tournaments and payout structure.

  • DomTwan

    I am just going to take my PGA action elsewhere.

    Oh wait there is no other PGA action elsewhere.

    I wont even consider Aces a viable alternative unless I am playing penny stakes not looking to make a full time income.

  • futureoffantasy

    They can’t break down PGA into five different slates so they get less rake, so they try to phase it out during NFL. That’s my guess. It also ties up funds over four days, including NFL Sundays.

    I would also guess they are basing this all off some Report or Spreadsheet that tells them how to maximize rake and site profit, but doesn’t take into account user retention, brand loyalty, etc.

    There is only so much you can ignore customer wants before they turn on you. Based on the threads in here and Twitter talk, it’s really reached that point. People don’t want to stand up and defend DK’s actions anymore, me included, which is sad because just a year ago I wanted to shout it on the mountain top just how great DraftKings was.

  • Frustrated

    I’m definitely not the biggest high roller in the world but typically I would throw down a good 20 entries in golf in a typical week but with the garbage they’ve been putting out lately I’ve significantly scaled back. Just this past week I made just two entries a cash and a GPP and that’s it. I’ve completely quit playing the Euro Tour which sucks because I was all in when they introduced it and played week in and week out throwing down a number of entries but I haven’t even touched a Euro Tour contest in what has been probably a couple of months now.

    I also echo Bill’s statement earlier in regards to NASCAR. I played NASCAR week in and week out with about 5 to 7 entries every week but I haven’t played in 3 of the last 4 weeks and again won’t be playing this week (only played at ‘Dega two weeks ago due to that just being a crapshoot with research not really being a requirement.) DraftKings has really screwed the pooch and they only have themselves to blame for their poor decision making. They have a player base that is starving to play but for whatever reason DK isn’t giving them a reason to play. Kind of odd that a business doesn’t like making money.

  • baggerly

    @futureoffantasy said...

    They can’t break down PGA into five different slates so they get less rake, so they try to phase it out during NFL. That’s my guess. It also ties up funds over four days, including NFL Sundays.

    I would also guess they are basing this all off some Report or Spreadsheet that tells them how to maximize rake and site profit, but doesn’t take into account user retention, brand loyalty, etc.

    There is only so much you can ignore customer wants before they turn on you. Based on the threads in here and Twitter talk, it’s really reached that point. People don’t want to stand up and defend DK’s actions anymore, me included, which is sad because just a year ago I wanted to shout it on the mountain top just how great DraftKings was.

    The bad thing is I was defending DK these past 2 weeks. Both events were limited fields, no cut events that had crazy start times. But to turn around and make the tournament even smaller than it was the past 2 weeks (both filled well before lock) is ludicrous. If you want to make it the $4 entry that’s fine but make it at least a $200k tourney with at least $15-20k to the winner and it would have no problem filling by Thursday morning. I would max enter a $200k tournament with $20k to the winner every week. It’s a little harder for me to max enter when the top prize is $5k and you are paying 27%.

  • billholler

    @futureoffantasy said...

    That’s my guess. It also ties up funds over four days, including NFL Sundays

    Ok that is the first legit answer I have seen but that still doesn’t explain why it started with PGA and Nascar in July.

  • Nosuckoutplz

    Since Matt Kalish supposedly reads threads here, I’m telling you right now, and I haven’t even read this thread only skimmed the title and first paragraph: he’s right. You’re doing this to yourself.

    I consistently put in 30-50 $3 lineups every week last season. I’ve put in exactly 0 in the last month or two. I’ll be dammed if I use my “one time” on one of these baby sized 1st place tourneys. It seems to me golf has always filled, regardless how big you make it.

    Cutting these down 400% and more kills your action. Not NFL, not the season, not whatever else you think. There is a direct correlation between what you offer and participation/engagement.

  • Bighouse55

    @billholler said...

    I imagine there is a group of people responsible for this decision which leads me to believe that a majority of the employees at DK are complete fools. Maybe they don’t realize the purpose of being in business is to make a profit.

    Sadly this is 100% true.

  • rsigler65

    I’m ready for WNBA myself.

  • Duck911

    @rsigler65 said...

    I’m ready for WNBA myself.

    I’ll see you there!

    Except, it’s multi-entry and the sharks (both of them) collude and fill up the large 20 entry GPPs pretty quick,

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