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  • colinwdrew

    • 499

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2020 DraftKings FHWC Champion

    • 2021 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    So DK tweeted out millionaire maker ownership here http://playbook.draftkings.com/nfl/millionaire-maker-percent-owned-week-3/ which as of 230pm still includes ownership data for games that have not yet started. IMO this is a big leak and should never happen. It also seems like something that your average analyst should probably not have access too, and able to tell his buddies who is owned and who the best players have. Hey did you know that CSURAM has Randall Cobb going late? Given that they can access the macro results it seems probable they can access specific users during and/or before contests start.

    They definitely should no be sharing it publicly, if they’re going to do it just list the full rosters in the contest and call it a day.

    • Link
    • Last Updated 4 years ago
  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @coqburn said...

    So naive its amazing.

    DK coming out and saying something means nothing to me. “I did not have sexual relations with that woman” comes to mind, the most powerful man on earth lying to the world.

    The fact that you do not think ownership % matter really boggles my mind as you are a successful player. The advantage in MLB would be tremendous (much larger than NFL).

    Also your claim to if you entered 500 LUs every day in the slam you would win. They why haven’t you if its that easy? Do not tell me time. I would spend all the time in the world for guaranteed money.

    Also your heater is much much different than his, like most pros coming to his aid in terms of their heaters during the year. Crushing the smaller field size GPPs (monster, the 1k ones, etc…) versus crushing the slam is different.

    its not easy to enter 500 lineups for me. I don’t have the energy for it. I top out at like 30. And for something like the Slam, I know 30 won’t give me a chance. But i did win the Monster about 4-5 times in a span of a month, and came in the top 10 about another dozen times.

    I have never ONCE thought about ownership % of players, i think that is something people keep telling themselves matters, but listen, about 95% of low owned players will not play well, so knowing WHICH players are low owned, is NOT an edge in winning. How in the world is one supposed to use that info to choose between Ameer Abdullah vs Seattle and Roy Helu Jr vs Chicago – both super low owned i bet, but HOW is knowing each of those guys owenership percentages is an actual advantage???

  • coqburn

    @Ryazan said...

    what DATA? A % of a player being owned is not DATA that will help someone win money. I could cheat and see that Calvin Johnson is 2% owned last night, is that somehow data that will help me win anything?

    YOU COULD CHEAT??

    Are you saying you work for FD or DK?

    Are you saying you have the opportunity to cheat?

    Why are you being so naive in terms of the effect the information could have? Are you just trolling now?

  • budfox6

    DailyMVP ceo on CNBC now

  • hendry

    @einars said...

    very little imo. most people that are coming up with the absurd theories either dont play already anyway and are just trying to stir up trouble, or, if they do play, are unwilling to put their money where their mouth is and not play.

    im genuinely shocked that people weren’t operating under the assumption that employees of sites could see lineups. as a software engineer i can tell you i’ve had pretty much access to everything at all my jobs.

    ill keep playing and ill keep winning.

  • srolleDFS

    Evidence ethan didnt cheat.

    here’s a tournament ethan won. its the “proof” he cheated, according to some.

    https://www.fanduel.com/games/12768/contests/12768-14080975/entries/202921697/scoring?entry=202830364 (ht @rotokevin)

    start at the bottom, and go thru his lineups, losers first. he had some really terrible lineups in this puppy. some people think ethan cheated by looking at the players that sharps played dk. he then used that info on fanduel to win tournaments in august like this one.

    but he didnt play a core group of players the sharps on dk we’re playing… or whatever people think he did. he just played everyone.

    worst performing 5 lineups

    NYM 4 stack.
    COL 4 stack
    SEA 4 stack
    LOS 4 stack
    SDP 4 stack

    thats only the lineups that finished 4409th/5747th and lower in the gpp he also got first in. he also played 4 different pitchers in those 5 lineups.

    does that sound like a cheater with hot picks? it looks like a guy playing literally nearly every batter and pitching taking the field that night.

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 205

      RG Overall Ranking

    @Ryazan said...

    can the logical people please realize that quite literally, NOTHING bad has happened. No one was doing insider trading. A DK employee made a mistake in publishing what seems to be his weekly article, and he knew player % owned of later games in the slate, but he should have published that later instead of before 4PM. And now, everyone who has ever lost money in DFS is saying that Ethan, and most pros, probably cheat.

    1. Employees have access ownership data prior to lock
    2. Employees allowed to play on other sites
    3 scripts allowed which make it possible to mass enter lineups on last minute ownership data
    4. How do you not see how this is a major issue, especially for MLB?

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @Ryazan said...

    its not easy to enter 500 lineups for me. I don’t have the energy for it. I top out at like 30. And for something like the Slam, I know 30 won’t give me a chance. But i did win the Monster about 4-5 times in a span of a month, and came in the top 10 about another dozen times.

    I have never ONCE thought about ownership % of players, i think that is something people keep telling themselves matters, but listen, about 95% of low owned players will not play well, so knowing WHICH players are low owned, is NOT an edge in winning. How in the world is one supposed to use that info to choose between Ameer Abdullah vs Seattle and Roy Helu Jr vs Chicago – both super low owned i bet, but HOW is knowing each of those guys owenership percentages is an actual advantage???

    and this is all on the assumption that DK knew this ahead of time, which I already said has been proven false anyway, but im humoring the masses

  • coqburn

    @Ryazan said...

    and this is all on the assumption that DK knew this ahead of time, which I already said has been proven false anyway, but im humoring the masses

    No it has not been proven. We have a statement from DK which means nothing.

  • y2mulder

    100 PAGES. This thread is now bigger then most Playboy issues.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @reztes757 said...

    1. Employees have access ownership data prior to lock
    2. Employees allowed to play on other sites
    3 scripts allowed which make it possible to mass enter lineups on last minute ownership data
    4. How do you not see how this is a major issue, especially for MLB?

    Dk said they knew the data AFTER lock, so that data cannot be used on fanduel. anything else said after that are just accusations without merit

  • kdsdawg

    the only reason it is an issue, it is in the news, was on Good Morning America today and it draws attention to the legislators that call it gambling, which of curse it is, and they want it either outlawed or a piece of the pie.

  • ckamins87

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @pmsimkins said...

    Luckily I’m an engineer whose math and stats background goes way beyond anything applicable to DFS, so I really don’t need to ask a math or random guy fro. page 55 who knows exactly how to win but doesn’t.

    Arguing about LU theory is beside my point. Put as much importance on ownership as you want. The point is that there are no meaningful suprises on ownership come Sunday on FD You can pay to know by entering Thursday, or just go crazy and use common sense

    PREACH! The 2nd paragraph goes in one ear and out the other though for everyone still arguing.

  • budfox6

    Edward Norton was fired…I’m speculating…

  • jakeupjohnson

    The fact that an industry making this much money allowed their employees to create this much risk by playing on other sites is beyond me. This is how GAMBLERS behave, real actual “I have to gamble I just can’t help it” type gamblers. I am dumbfounded that something like this would even be possible. If I was running DK, the headlines would be “former employee leaked ownership %” and I would let Fan Duel take the heat for not having in their terms that employees of other dfs companies can’t play on their site. FD and DK can both more than afford to pay people to work there while requiring them not to play dfs anywhere. Again, dumbfounded. It isn’t about the integrity of the person who did this, it’s about the long history of humans misusing information for their own benefit. I am not going to take someone’s self serving word that they are not cheating or that there is not cheating going happening on their site. I’m done with FD and DK, at least for the foreseeable future.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @coqburn said...

    YOU COULD CHEAT??

    Are you saying you work for FD or DK?

    Are you saying you have the opportunity to cheat?

    Why are you being so naive in terms of the effect the information could have? Are you just trolling now?

    I am saying it’s not cheating in the first place, because a) DK has confirmed that the data was revealed to Ethan after 1pm, and b) EVEN KNOWING the data wont help anyone win any more than they could already win

  • INSPYR

    @crazypaul said...

    I was against the heavy moderation going on the first few days this thread was alive because I felt some very good, well thought out posts were being deleted. However, after today, I wouldnt be against the whole forum being locked. Some of the things I have read today, especially from newly registered users, has blown my mind.

    I agree with you guys. I have been reading every single post for the last basically 100 pages in utter shock.

    I for one will continue to play because when I started this I already knew I had a chance to lose all my bankroll.

    Having been quiet this entire time, I just want to leave with a song quote:
    “Crazy how you gotta wait until it’s dark out to see who really with you”

  • y2mulder

    @Ryazan said...

    Dk said they knew the data AFTER lock, so that data cannot be used on fanduel. anything else said after that are just accusations without merit

    And if they type anything less then that, they are bankrupt in 6 hours.

    So basically, something you have to type to save your business fails the credibility test.

  • chaseharrell

    @Ryazan said...

    its not easy to enter 500 lineups for me. I don’t have the energy for it. I top out at like 30. And for something like the Slam, I know 30 won’t give me a chance. But i did win the Monster about 4-5 times in a span of a month, and came in the top 10 about another dozen times.

    I have never ONCE thought about ownership % of players, i think that is something people keep telling themselves matters, but listen, about 95% of low owned players will not play well, so knowing WHICH players are low owned, is NOT an edge in winning. How in the world is one supposed to use that info to choose between Ameer Abdullah vs Seattle and Roy Helu Jr vs Chicago – both super low owned i bet, but HOW is knowing each of those guys owenership percentages is an actual advantage???

    Please stop trying to downplay knowing ownership percentages you know damn well you would kill to have that info. Congrats that you are “successful”, but by the looks of everything happening I would suggest you update your resume.

  • Neiderman

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @pmsimkins said...

    Not that I’m sure it hasn’t already been pointed out in the last 95 pages, but for $30 you can have the ownership percentages on every relavent player on FD. It’s called the Thursday slate.

    Everything in the media I’ve seen has been idiotic, basically.

    I know with all of the speculation and complaints that certain concerns and complaints get lost….
    I can’t speak for everyone else… But personally my issue isn’t with Draftkings versus Fan Duel ownership percentages. There is some correlation between the ownership percentages between the sites but it’s still a guess and yes most of us have been using the Thursday info from Fan Duel.
    The issue is the fact that Ethan tweeted out the DK ownership percentages in his article before all of the DK games had been played. So anyone one with a brain that saw the info could have used late swap on their lines to improve there position in the tourneys. Did I place lower in DK tourneys because of that mistake… Maybe…maybe not. That has me upset though as I can tell you people spend a lot of time trying to calculate who you have left to play to make sure that can either block you or if they need to gain on you they can switch to a different player.
    The issue that is bigger than this is why in the hell is anyone looking at ownership percentages. Those should be considered confidential until the games for the week are over.

  • realdeals

    @pmsimkins said...

    Luckily I’m an engineer whose math and stats background goes way beyond anything applicable to DFS, so I really don’t need to ask a math or random guy fro. page 55 who knows exactly how to win but doesn’t.

    Arguing about LU theory is beside my point. Put as much importance on ownership as you want. The point is that there are noeaningful suprises on ownership come Sunday on FD You can pay to know by entering Thursday, or just go crazy and use common sense.

    I’ve said this a few times in this thread, I’ll say it one last time. s change from Thurs to Sun. What was Black Unicorns % on Thursday compare to Sunday after Cutler was announced as the starter. I actually expected his % to be in around 25 and not the 14.5. I’m sure you and Ryan had him at 15%.

    And lastly, this isn’t just about football.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @coqburn said...

    No it has not been proven. We have a statement from DK which means nothing.

    I am going to believe an official statement from DK over believing random accusations of cheating.

  • MikeMineo

    @Ryazan said...

    How in the world is one supposed to use that info to choose between Ameer Abdullah vs Seattle and Roy Helu Jr vs Chicago – both super low owned i bet, but HOW is knowing each of those guys owenership percentages is an actual advantage???

    it’s not too useful in NFL (especially since we have the whole week to decide and Thurs FD contests provide indication of ownership for week), but certainly for MLB when you have a “Player A vs. Player B” dilemma and you’re playing in a GPP and you generally project A and B similarly. you don’t see the advantage of having ownership data in a game like MLB where everyone’s ceiling and floor is theoretically identical, and you’re between choosing a handful of players? a good GPP player is going with the lower owned player every time, or at least what they PROJECT to be the lowest owned player, in a scenario of deciding between two similarly perceived players at a similar price.

    when you take the element of projecting out of ownership, there’s an inside edge. the pre-lock ownership data either needs to be available to 100% of users or 0%.

  • sutogame

    https://www.draftkings.com/lp/football-world-championship

    see results———————doesnt show the standings anymore ??????????????????????

  • budfox6

    @jakeupjohnson said...

    The fact that an industry making this much money allowed their employees to create this much risk by playing on other sites is beyond me. This is how GAMBLERS behave, real actual “I have to gamble I just can’t help it” type gamblers. I am dumbfounded that something like this would even be possible. If I was running DK, the headlines would be “former employee leaked ownership %” and I would let Fan Duel take the heat for not having in their terms that employees of other dfs companies can’t play on their site. FD and DK can both more than afford to pay people to work there while requiring them not to play dfs anywhere. Again, dumbfounded. It isn’t about the integrity of the person who did this, it’s about the long history of humans misusing information for their own benefit. I am not going to take someone’s self serving word that they are not cheating or that there is not cheating going happening on their site. I’m done with FD and DK, at least for the foreseeable future.

    +1 if I have inside information, no offense, but I’m using it to the MAX. No pun intended.

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 205

      RG Overall Ranking

    @Ryazan said...

    Dk said they knew the data AFTER lock, so that data cannot be used on fanduel. anything else said after that are just accusations without merit

    If they can view ownership on games that haven’t started mid slate can’t we assume they can view ownership before a slate starts?

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