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  • colinwdrew

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    So DK tweeted out millionaire maker ownership here http://playbook.draftkings.com/nfl/millionaire-maker-percent-owned-week-3/ which as of 230pm still includes ownership data for games that have not yet started. IMO this is a big leak and should never happen. It also seems like something that your average analyst should probably not have access too, and able to tell his buddies who is owned and who the best players have. Hey did you know that CSURAM has Randall Cobb going late? Given that they can access the macro results it seems probable they can access specific users during and/or before contests start.

    They definitely should no be sharing it publicly, if they’re going to do it just list the full rosters in the contest and call it a day.

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  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

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    @punisherjck said...

    Cal, you can’t just keep saying “according to DraftKings” anymore. They have had plenty of time to do more than just say what they allege to be true. It isn’t hard to verify who has access to what and the procedures for how to access various data should also be documented. I am not saying to release that information to the public, but an independent auditor could easily verify that.

    I definitely understand your sentiment, but I think it’s important to keep saying it like this as I’m fighting against speculation being presented as fact.

  • deez1233

    I guess the blog hasn’t posted yet? Not sure how that works. Sorry, was premature with the link above I guess.

  • electrichaz3

    @kb32dawgs said...

    Lets make one thing clear, we aint friends bro. You defend this kind of playing all you want, but in the long run if players like me leave and there’s a shit ton of us, the DFS goes too.

    go and take mike mineo and fantasy girl with you. I see a cloud outside you can all yell at . hurry on now

  • COMMISH

    @realdeals said...

    For the record I haven’t made any crazy allegations, but this is an issue if it’s true that employees that play on other sites had % prior to game lock. For you math challenged guys here is a copy and paste from another poster back on page 55.

    #1. This is a major issue. For those of you who are trying to minimize the edge of this data having been accessible … shame on you for even trying. You are embarrassing yourself. Lots of DFS players are very intelligent. Many are technically skills in STEM fields. So, pls stop it before you put your foot further into your mouth. For novices or poets, pls go present the situation to someone (e.g., your college math professor) and have her/him explain why this insider information means not a “small” edge but extreme advantage. DFS is purely math when such data is exposed. I’m lazy too to a degree so I do not want to explain it in granular detail here. Again, ask your former math professor or a friend with a deep understanding of math. One simple way to describe it in that you would take the highest owned low salaried players and then join those with the lowest owned high salaried players. And, you largely ignore the low owned, low salaried. Then, you do the same in tiers and in reverse … mid owned low salaries with high owned high salaries. Then, high owned low salaries with mid owned high salaries. It’s a variant of using permutation calculations and adhering to the fundamental counting principle. And doing so while limiting it via some game/player analysis (yes, there is always an element of non-math based skills mainly to narrow the multi event math). However, having this ownership data reduces that chance element and heightens the probability of using pure math to score very high. Now, do I believe Ethan did all of this. Of course not. But I’m sitting here writing this long diatribe so anything is possible is you just_try_hard_enough_to_believe_it.

    This is all fine and dandy, IF YOU KNEW THE OUTCOME OF THE GAMES BEFORE THEY WERE PLAYED.

    Let me show you how worthless this ownership information is.

    Let’s say you happen to obtain the ownership information before the games are played. You notice that Andy Dalton is owned by 10% of the players. Immediately, alarm bells go off in your head because you THINK he should be owned by 30% of the owners. The dumb public doesn’t like Dalton as much as you do. Basically, you THINK you are smarter than the rest of the public. So, you jump on the Dalton bandwagon and you load your lineups with him because the prize pool is working in your favor. At the same time, this means you are NOT loading your lineups with other QBs, meaning those prize pools will have a lower ownership without you, which works in the public’s favor. This is the UNSEEN that most are overlooking. At any rate, NONE of this is going to change the actual outcome of the games, or more specifically, what Dalton does on the field. For some reason, some seem to think it would.

    Now, let’s look at a couple outcomes. Let’s say Dalton lights it up (4 TD passes). You do benefit due to the smaller than anticipated Dalton ownership. However, let’s look at the other side of the coin. Let’s say Dalton sprains his ankle on the first play of the game and goes scoreless. Your valuable inside ownership info is now working against you and to the benefit of everyone else. In this case, the majority of the public who thought Dalton should only be 10% owner was right and you were wrong. Without you, their prize pool is larger than it would have been with you.

    The ownership info would be incredibly valuable after the games are done. Then, you could go back and pick the players that were under owned.

    The bottomline is that all this ownership info shows is what the public thinks. It doesn’t tell if they (or you) are right or wrong. You make your decisions based upon what you think about the public’s decisions. You THINK you know better, which is why you would act on the info. If you didn’t think you knew better than the public, then you shouldn’t be playing these games. However, just because you think you know better doesn’t mean you actually do. In the end, only time will tell if you are right or wrong.

  • MikeMineo

    @electrichaz3 said...

    go and take mike mineo and fantasy girl with you. I see a cloud outside you can all yell at . hurry on now

    you’re right.

    let’s just all sit still and pretend nothing is awry, despite there being no safeguard or laws in place to prevent data selling/sharing by FD/DK employees making an avg salary.

    must be fun. as an employee you could potentially send someone a list of players maxdalury and/or rayofhope has 20%+ exposure to across his 500 heavily researched lineups for $10k. and there’s no laws against it? great; why not do it? that’s 1/10 of an employee’s salary for copying and pasting some player names, even if their salary is great. I’d do it; I have bills to pay. see the issue?

    as the world shows, corporations always fix themselves for the better of their consumers without any third-party intervention at all. yup, that’s always what happens. public outcry never has any effect. /s

    have you read the news in the past few years? or perhaps heard of the Volkswagen scandal, Martin Shkreli scandal, etc. would be wonderful for those two if the public just didn’t care and just took the corp’s word at face value. profits would just keep coming at the expense of others :)

  • Njcop2001

    NJ congressman was already on DFS so this isn’t going to help:

    http://blogs.rollcall.com/218/pallone-wants-congressional-hearing-on-fantasy-football/

  • KaiBang

    • 2015 DraftKings FCFWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    How many users has RG gained from this EPIC thread? We are all sheep! BAHHHH!!!!!

  • gje627

    @mellofellowsu said...

    I guess we’ll see. Let’s meet back up in a week and see if the congressional hearings have kicked off by then.

    Congress sets hearings months in advance (unless its for an emergency like a natural disaster or issues concerning national security). This is primarily due to conflicting schedules of executives from industry who need to attend and the reality that congressional schedules are busy, even if many of you may believe they do nothing useful with their time. NPR has confirmed that hearings will likely occur within the next 4-8 weeks.

  • CaptainKirk12

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    @Cal said...

    Mike, many of your posts are crossing a line.

    You just casually said in a post “Two guys with similar access to FD/DK data.” You have no idea what access to data they have. According to DraftKings, Ethan had to submit a request to get the player ownership report for his article and could not access anything sensitive on his own.

    If there was a request for the data, DK should really post the log/record of it. Would help clear some things up.

  • devobrain

    @Njcop2001 said...

    NJ congressman was already on DFS so this isn’t going to help:

    http://blogs.rollcall.com/218/pallone-wants-congressional-hearing-on-fantasy-football/

    You do realize that this guy isn’t Anti DFS per se. He’s a big proponent to legalizing sports gambling in his state. He’s just trying to drum up support for his cause with this hearing. He basically sees DFS as similar to sports gambling, which HE THINKS SHOULD BE LEGAL. So he wants to know what the big differences are. That’s all.

  • Frickman81

    @MikeMineo said...

    you’re right.

    let’s just all sit still and pretend nothing is awry, despite there being no safeguard or laws in place to prevent data selling/sharing.

    as the world shows, corporations always fix themselves for the better of their consumers without any third-party intervention at all. yup, that’s always what happens. public outcry never has any effect. /s

    have you read the news in the past few years? or perhaps heard of the Volkswagen scandal, Martin Shkreli scandal, etc. would be wonderful for those two if the public just didn’t care and just took the corp’s word at face value. profits would just keep coming at the expense of others :)

    You keep posting the same shit over and over again. We get it man. Let’s see how it plays out

  • ebsteelers

    @COMMISH said...

    The bottomline is that all this ownership info shows is what the public thinks. It doesn’t tell if they (or you) are right or wrong. You make your decisions based upon what you think about the public’s decisions. You THINK you know better, which is why you would act on the info. If you didn’t think you knew better than the public, then you shouldn’t be playing these games. However, just because you think you know better doesn’t mean you actually do. In the end, only time will tell if you are right or wrong.

    kind of like sports gambling you can know what the sharks are on pre game and know the public numbers before hand doesnt mean anything will come of it though

  • Cal

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    @CaptainKirk12 said...

    If there was a request for the data, DK should really post the log/record of it. Would help clear some things up.

    Agree that would be helpful to many.

  • JJdaily

    This is all so oobvious dose anyone look at some of these TOP players Records They are unreal completely impossible to do. This is totally inside jobs and its not fair to the people who have fun doing the preparation and research…..its just a Hobby for me hopefully they can figure something out

  • rgyanks

    @COMMISH said...

    At any rate, NONE of this is going to change the actual outcome of the games, or more specifically, what Dalton does on the field. For some reason, some seem to think it would.

    No one thinks this, saying that is building a strawman. Do you agree with this? (from another thread last night):

    In an incredibly simplified hypothetical, imagine Brady and Rodgers both have a good matchup. You think it is equally likely that they will play well (to make it simple, you think their possible distribution of points is the same). And their salaries are the same. Now I’m going to tell you Brady will be 20% owned, while Rodgers is 5%. Lets look at the possible outcomes:

    If they match each others production, then ownership does not matter. Everyone that rostered one of them got the same thing, you are all even.

    If Brady (remember, he is higher owned) scores more points than Rodgers, then the 20% that are on Brady have an advantage over the 5% on Rodgers. That is good but they are still tied among themselves, and they consist of 20% of the field. That is a lot of people you still have to beat to do really well.

    If Rodgers outscores Brady, you have done better than 20% of the field, and are tied with just 5% of the field. You now have to do less elsewhere to have a higher finish.

  • MikeMineo

    @Frickman81 said...

    You keep posting the same shit over and over again. We get it man. Let’s see how it plays out

    in all fairness EVERYONE keeps posting the same shit over and over again lol

    it’s just hard to resist replying when someone tells me directly I should just assume DK has our best interests at heart, though. there are SO many issues to consider – from employees selling data, to using this private data in manufacturing cross-platform scripts and models that provide an advantage – that it’s hard to quit.

    my Yanks are on now though so I’ll see ya tomorrow. if they lose then I’ll be more bitter about that haha

  • Frickman81

    @MikeMineo said...

    in all fairness EVERYONE keeps posting the same shit over and over again lol

    it’s just hard to resist replying when someone tells me directly I should just assume DK has our best interests at heart, though.

    You’re right they need to relax too, but please guys don’t direct nothing to mike he needs to get some sleep

  • walterg55

    Cal: Hard to understand why this thread is not locked. The issues are covered and Everyone has had a say at least 4 times over. Lock it and come back with a new thread when appropriate

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

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    @JJdaily said...

    This is all so oobvious dose anyone look at some of these TOP players Records They are unreal completely impossible to do. This is totally inside jobs and its not fair to the people who have fun doing the preparation and research…..its just a Hobby for me hopefully they can figure something out

    This guy is one of those top players who you say his results are unreal. He and his partner are professionals. They’ve won $1,000,000 prizes in two separate DFS events. They play a ton of volume and treat their business like a “trading desk.” His is also asking for regulation:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/i-won-millions-in-daily-fantasyand-even-i-want-changes-1444171886

    These top players are very real and very skillful.

  • Priptonite

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Cal said...

    Agree that would be helpful to many.

    Any idea what the hold up on more info is, Cal?

  • MikeMineo

    @Frickman81 said...

    You’re right they need to relax too, but please guys don’t direct nothing to mike he needs to get some sleep

    lol nah I just need to watch my under-performing baseball team try and hit Dallas Keuchel :/

  • devobrain

    “This is all so oobvious dose anyone look at some of these TOP players Records They are unreal completely impossible to do. This is totally inside jobs and its not fair to the people who have fun doing the preparation and research…..its just a Hobby for me hopefully they can figure something out”

    And you know this HOW? Please enlighten us with the obvious details that this was an ‘inside job’. Or better yet…don’t, because the misinformation in this thread is already mind boggling. We don’t need another claim based on complete conjecture to feed the media what it would like.

  • rgyanks

    Cal have you been in contact with anyone at DK today? Any idea on when something, anything will happen?

  • scsa1998

    @MikeMineo said...

    lol nah I just need to watch my under-performing baseball team try and hit Dallas Keuchel :/

    Good luck with that(and I’m a Yankees fan who is hoping we get our heads out of our asses)

  • realdeals

    @shark61350 said...

    Really impressed with rayofhope.

    Agree, wish the majority of high rollers were like him and his partner. Loved the comment how the big $ pros shouldn’t be flooding the $1 games.

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