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  • colinwdrew

    • 301

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2020 DraftKings FHWC Champion

    • 2021 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    So DK tweeted out millionaire maker ownership here http://playbook.draftkings.com/nfl/millionaire-maker-percent-owned-week-3/ which as of 230pm still includes ownership data for games that have not yet started. IMO this is a big leak and should never happen. It also seems like something that your average analyst should probably not have access too, and able to tell his buddies who is owned and who the best players have. Hey did you know that CSURAM has Randall Cobb going late? Given that they can access the macro results it seems probable they can access specific users during and/or before contests start.

    They definitely should no be sharing it publicly, if they’re going to do it just list the full rosters in the contest and call it a day.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • COMMISH

    @rgyanks said...

    Since you insist, lets try this again. Do you agree with this?

    In an incredibly simplified hypothetical, imagine Brady and Rodgers both have a good matchup. You think it is equally likely that they will play well (to make it simple, you think their possible distribution of points is the same). And their salaries are the same. Now I’m going to tell you Brady will be 20% owned, while Rodgers is 5%. Lets look at the possible outcomes:

    If they match each others production, then ownership does not matter. Everyone that rostered one of them got the same thing, you are all even.

    If Brady (remember, he is higher owned) scores more points than Rodgers, then the 20% that are on Brady have an advantage over the 5% on Rodgers. That is good but they are still tied among themselves, and they consist of 20% of the field. That is a lot of people you still have to beat to do really well.

    If Rodgers outscores Brady, you have done better than 20% of the field, and are tied with just 5% of the field. You now have to do less elsewhere to have a higher finish.

    Yes, your example makes sense, to an extent. All you have done is proven my earlier point about owners looking for what they BELIEVE are under-owned players. What you did above is make a “make all other things being equal” assumption. The public certainly doesn’t BELIEVE that. They believe all other things aren’t equal, which is why they are favoring Brady. Just because you BELIEVE they are equal doesn’t mean they really are. It is not a FACT. In this case, you would bet on Rodgers because you BELIEVE you know better than the public. However, that doesn’t mean you are right.

  • NCRick

    If I want to be able to see what percent have player A,B,C and D(ex. top QB, top RB, top 2 WR)….. I should be able to. DFS is designed to be opaque it seems.

  • tbird05

    @Ryazan said...

    yes, it was a small mistake. It has gotten blown up because of this forum and the people who feel betrayed and cheated even know quite literally, NOTHING has happened, and DK has confirmed this.

    Do you honestly believe what your posting?

  • Chad32676

    It got blown up because this forum?Cmon bro.

  • rainbowtroutman

    @cstcst said...

    rainbow…he’d have been shown the door at just about any other business where sensitive information / data is shared to the outside (intentionally or unintentionally). The word amateur is being kind. These guys have done nada. Will be interesting to see what the Government finds.

    Oh I agree but he still has that cash. I would quit my 50,000 a year job if I could win 10 years worth of salary. I’d simply go get another job somewhere else. Plus,what he is alledged to have done is not illegal just immoral,if it is proven as fact

  • lggarruto

    • 589

      RG Overall Ranking

    @Ryazan said...

    you can’t fire people for small mistakes, otherwise ALL of us would be fired from our jobs within days.

    Your kidding right?? If I commit fraud at my job I would lose my license. This “small mistake” caused big problems for DK and Fanduel. They have paid thier lawyers more than Ethan makes in two years in a week.

  • Zialum

    @Ryazan said...

    I would take the guy that I am feeling is hotter and is more likely to go off, not the guy who i think will be lower owned. Making decisions based on that, its no wonder most people on here are losing and bitter at the winners who DONT CHEAT to win their big money.

    If you think the players are very close in projected point totals but you still choose the guy owned by more people because he’s projected for .1 more points, that is a leak in your game and an unprofitable decision.

    If you pick your lineups by gut decisions and not stats, more power to you, but it’s not what we are talking about.

  • rainbowtroutman

    @tbird05 said...

    Do you honestly believe what your posting?

    Just ignore his posts—-There is no reasoning with him—his blinders are squezzing his brains

  • lggarruto

    • 589

      RG Overall Ranking

    How do we know he has a job still??

  • Njcop2001

    Does anyone else find it odd that the guy that placed 2nd (Mcmagin) in this weeks $1,000,000 tournament has a grand total of 15 entries on Fanduel ???

    I’m not talking about just this tournament, I’m talking about 15 entries in any and all Fanduel contests.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    The fact that Ethan won 2nd place in the Sunday Million simply means he took the right combination of players that got him a high score. That right there is a fact. Nothing else has been proven, and it is all complete allegations from people who are pretty damn jealous of a winner who happens to work for DK. Hell, i tried to work for DK too, i just didn’t get hired. People who are good at DFS like to work for DFS because it’s their passion, so it should not surprise anyone that DFS employees win big sometimes.

  • adamo112

    @frob2424 said...

    This is one of the bad things about taking in so much VC money. The past three companies I worked for all took in a lot of VC money. These VCs have one goal, to get their money out with a healthy return and that means growing the business as fast as possible, hence the media blitz to increase memberships and entries.

    This is basically the entire story. As soon as these companies got into an arms race for mega investments, any hope of “flying under the radar” and maintaining the status quo went right out the window. This is why innovations like more single entry and banning scripts and “more fun” (basically) were never going to happen either. It’s growth, growth, growth. I would encourage everyone to read the 15-part DocuSeries by Steve Brill on Highline (Huff Post longform) if you want to see a detailed, retrospective on how companies can do just horrible and honestly unbelievable (not just morally wrong, but idiotic) things in the name of hitting projections. There is a line about how there weren’t any psychotic people to hit their sales targets, so they would have to sell the drug to others. And the story gets uglier from there, I assure you.

    Anyway, the day that I read of one of these sites (can’t remember which one) raising an investment round in the many hundreds of millions, I pretty much knew this was coming.

    And the lesson here, truly, is you should always try your hardest to avoid taking the large-scale, aggressive-return VC money if you have a product that is already growing and that has customers. And if you DO take it, please for the love, have a CEO in place who has done this many times before – who knows how to scale, who understands market saturation (did any of these dudes at least read an HBS case study? Or even skim an article about Krispie Kreme or Pinkbury and the dangers of scaling too fast?), and perhaps most of all, has a fat rolodex with names like Ted Wang and Brooke Hammerling in it. The crisis management in all this has been mind-boggling.

    I honestly don’t really find the Ethan debate that worthwhile (I can see why people are in a rush to judge; I can see why people think that is a terrible thing to do), I believe the idea of “edge” is so obvious as to be truly inane as a debate, and it seems like everyone agrees there need to be safeguards, etc.

    Really, to me, what all the yelling and emotion about is this: the sites themselves are potentially ruining everything because they seemingly can’t cut their way out of a wet paper bag with scissors in their hands. And when you take that reality and couple it with all the flaunting, it adds up to acute provocation. And so here we are.

  • theseige

    • 2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x2

      2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    @Njcop2001 said...

    Does anyone else find it odd that the guy that placed 2nd (Mcmagin) in this weeks $1,000,000 tournament has a grand total of 15 entries on Fanduel ???

    I’m not talking about just this tournament, I’m talking about 15 entries in any and all Fanduel contests.

    Yea because the DK millionaire maker winners won on their first ever entries in DFS so definitely means something guy has played in 15 contests

  • cstcst

    Proof of lack of a level playing field, leads to false advertising….which leads to a sunset. Moral of the story? Buy some Yahoo stock and brush up on their scoring system.

  • DailyLoser

    @Njcop2001 said...

    Does anyone else find it odd that the guy that placed 2nd (Mcmagin) in this weeks $1,000,000 tournament has a grand total of 15 entries on Fanduel ???

    I’m not talking about just this tournament, I’m talking about 15 entries in any and all Fanduel contests.

    The guy who won the million in week 2…it was his first game! I also listened to an interview from him and it was completely legit. The guy put $25 in for baseball season, didn’t play and forgot it was there, and then played it week 2 and won. His strategy? didnt really seem like he had one. It’s not impossible.

  • budfox6

    @Ryazan said...

    yes, it was a small mistake. It has gotten blown up because of this forum and the people who feel betrayed and cheated even know quite literally, NOTHING has happened, and DK has confirmed this.

    I agree with this, but the perception has changed which means the fish and/or recreation player pool could get smaller. This is what a lot of the pros are worried about, since a lot of your edge comes from having a huge fish/recreation pool.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

    • 585

      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x3

      2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @phillygamecox said...

    Cal – I think the “strong existing protocols/restrictions” you mention were detailed in Ethan’s post from page 1: “I’ve fixed the error and we’ll be putting checks in place to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

    That seems to show that there WEREN’T any existing protocols/restrictions in place…and the lack of detail from DK telling us exactly what their protocols were/are/will be is just helping fuel this fire.

    The error he fixed was displaying ownership percentages from upcoming games that hadn’t started yet.

    To get the report he had to submit a request to a database person. This is what I’ve been told, this is what I believe, this is what makes sense. It was a reckless mistake to give Ethan a report with sensitive information, but it would be way more reckless if they don’t have restrictions in place to keep all but a select few employees from being able to access the database.

    This potential for this becoming an issue has been discussed for over four years in different threads on RotoGrinders. The sites knew to be cautious with sensitive data. That said, they weren’t cautious enough, and I would have made the same mistakes. A week ago I would not have said this, but now it’s crystal clear that no employees should have been able to play on competing sites. Restricting employees is the first step, and now more needs to be done to make the public comfortable that the sensitive data is secure.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    The fact that Ethan won 2nd place in the Sunday Million simply means he took the right combination of players that got him a high score. That right there is a fact. Nothing else has been proven, and it is all complete allegations from people who are pretty damn jealous of a winner who happens to work for DK. Hell, i tried to work for DK too, i just didn’t get hired. People who are good at DFS like to work for DFS because it’s their passion, so it should not surprise anyone that DFS employees win big sometimes.

  • woefulstuff

    @Njcop2001 said...

    Does anyone else find it odd that the guy that placed 2nd (Mcmagin) in this weeks $1,000,000 tournament has a grand total of 15 entries on Fanduel ???

    I’m not talking about just this tournament, I’m talking about 15 entries in any and all Fanduel contests.

    It depends. Was it a single bullet that got lucky or was all 15 off his entries in that one tourney because the latter would stink a little.

  • blackout8

    @Ryazan said...

    I would take the guy that I am feeling is hotter and is more likely to go off, not the guy who i think will be lower owned. Making decisions based on that, its no wonder most people on here are losing and bitter at the winners who DONT CHEAT to win their big money.

    In my original post I gave an example of having to pick between two players you like the same amount. Both have good matchups, hitter friendly ballparks, swinging a hot bat, etc. Imagine they are tied on everything you base your decisions on when picking a player.

    I’m a winning MLB and NFL player btw. Lost at NBA last year as it was my first year playing NBA dfs and first time I had followed the sport in about 5 years.

  • ComicFx

    @Njcop2001 said...

    Does anyone else find it odd that the guy that placed 2nd (Mcmagin) in this weeks $1,000,000 tournament has a grand total of 15 entries on Fanduel ???

    I’m not talking about just this tournament, I’m talking about 15 entries in any and all Fanduel contests.

    No. DFS is a game of skill involving a great deal of luck to take down a top heavy GPP. New guy got lucky and/or a budding superstar is ALL I see here.

  • razorsharp79

    I have said this is going on for over a year…I remember CSUram88 going to work for starstreet, and he was playing on other sites, how much did this help him?

    This article on deadspin is alarming..

    Because DFS is legally classified as skills-based rather than gambling, it doesn’t draw the regulatory scrutiny of, say, online poker, which has had its own share of employee scandals involving insider data. Thus, we have people who work for the biggest two DFS companies having access to information that is ostensibly useless since it only pertains to their own site (which they can’t play). But the information is not innocuous, and it gives those with inside information a decided edge. An anonymous industry employee told Legal Sports Report that “a significant number of the whales at the top DFS sites are employees – often executives – of other sites.” They logically wouldn’t put money in their competitor’s pockets unless it was significantly beneficial to them.

    About those internal controls: the Fantasy Sports Trade Association (FSTA) regulates fantasy sports from within. Two of its board members are the CEOs of our friends FanDuel and DraftKings. So even if you believe that the FSTA has the clout and influence to keep these massive, rapidly expanding companies in check, you’d also have to trust that the two men who stand to make the most from them would have it in their hearts to play along and ensure fairness at every step. In the absence of any sort of official regulatory oversight, we have no way to know how to substantiate the claim that there is no insider trading or collusion.

    End quote…love DFS but matters like this give it a huge black eye…outside regulation needs to be brought in ASAP to ensure quality control of these contests and no one who works in DFS should be allowed to play at all on any site.

    All these pro’s playing for the house BS needs to stop to…you are out there repping a site and expect us to believe you are not getting some sort of incentive? Clean this up before it is to late

  • blackout8

    @Ryazan said...

    I would take the guy that I am feeling is hotter and is more likely to go off, not the guy who i think will be lower owned. Making decisions based on that, its no wonder most people on here are losing and bitter at the winners who DONT CHEAT to win their big money.

    In my original post I gave an example of having to pick between two players you like the same amount. Both have good matchups, hitter friendly ballparks, swinging a hot bat, etc. Imagine they are tied on everything you base your decisions on when picking a player.

    I’m a winning MLB and NFL player btw. Lost at NBA last year as it was my first year playing NBA dfs and first time I had followed the sport in about 5 years.

  • ckamins87

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @lggarruto said...

    Your kidding right?? If I commit fraud at my job I would lose my license. This “small mistake” caused big problems for DK and Fanduel. They have paid thier lawyers more than Ethan makes in two years in a week.

    As of this moment there is literally 0 reason to believe fraud took place. The known mistake was publishing ownership information on players that were yet to start. It was information he accidentally made available to everyone, though. That is not fraud.

    We’ll see if the AG digs up some other dirt, but I think Ethan posting ownership %‘s once time and tweeting it out to all DK followers is not something deserving of losing a job. If he had not won any prizes, and no wrongdoing besides the posting of ownership was done, do you really feel cheated by him?

  • phillygamecox

    @Cal said...

    The error he fixed was displaying ownership percentages from upcoming games that hadn’t started yet.

    To get the report he had to submit a request to a database person. This is what I’ve been told, this is what I believe, this is what makes sense. It was a reckless mistake to give Ethan a report with sensitive information, but it would be way more reckless if they don’t have restrictions in place to keep all but a select few employees from being able to access the database.

    This potential for this becoming an issue has been discussed for over four years in different threads on RotoGrinders. The sites knew to be cautious with sensitive data. That said, not enough was done. A week ago I would not have said this, but now it’s crystal clear that no employees should have been able to play on competing sites. Restricting employees is the first step, and now more needs to be done to make the public comfortable that the sensitive data is secure.

    thanks cal for clarifying; and really good message here

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