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  • colinwdrew

    • 230

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #41

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    • 2020 DraftKings FHWC Champion

    • 2018 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    So DK tweeted out millionaire maker ownership here http://playbook.draftkings.com/nfl/millionaire-maker-percent-owned-week-3/ which as of 230pm still includes ownership data for games that have not yet started. IMO this is a big leak and should never happen. It also seems like something that your average analyst should probably not have access too, and able to tell his buddies who is owned and who the best players have. Hey did you know that CSURAM has Randall Cobb going late? Given that they can access the macro results it seems probable they can access specific users during and/or before contests start.

    They definitely should no be sharing it publicly, if they’re going to do it just list the full rosters in the contest and call it a day.

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    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • walterg55

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    Who said he can see private ownership percentages? You do not know that. He helps build the salaries for Fanduel to build their future contests. Where does it say anywhere that he can see ownership percentages prior to lineup lock? I think a lot of people are just jumping to conclusions. We do not know what employees have access to what information.

    i don’t know that he did. But based on a number of incidents and odd coincidences coupled with an erosion of belief in site integrity; the very real possibility that he or others do is there along with other types of unfairness, I hope I am wrong., I enjoy playing DFS and play small stakes with mild profitability but mainly for the competition with $ as validation .

  • hammer74

    Well said hokie!

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @hokie2009 said...

    I agree there is rampant speculation at this point … and nobody can say for sure … but really to me, the stink is there, I think this is an area that DK and FD decided wasn’t worth spending money on until they were forced to. I mean from a sheer business perspective with no ethics – there is/was absolutely no reason to spend money regulating something that there is nobody there to tell you you have to regulate it. Virtually every business operates this way, for better or worse. They spend money on “safety” stuff when they are FORCED to, usually by government regulations.

    So, nobody knows for sure what employees have access to what, and when. But I think it’s fair to say, if the guy writing the DK playbook article got data he shouldn’t have had … it truly is a pandora’s box. I am fairly confident that the guy who is working on fanduel daily salaries … has access to pretty much anything he wants, and they put in the rule that he can’t play on fanduel, and called it a day.

    I’m surely playing devil’s advocate a little bit … but I think from that last statement it’s clear that they basically have “policies” saying “you can’t do this, and you can’t do that” and maybe some very basic protections against employees registering on the site and MAYBE household members – but beyond that, …. I’d be SHOCKED.

    So, we could wait and see, but I am also confident that we will never truly know. An entity does not exist that can present unbiased information on this topic.

    So in the interim, I guess you could call it speculation or jumping to conclusions, but I think all we’ve got available to us is to follow some logical progressions and try to fill in the blanks on what we DO know – and the picture is NOT pretty. It is downright horrible.

    I think it’s very reasonable to come to that conclusion.

    This is a very good and reasonable post. I can’t say I disagree with any of it, even if I don’t end up at the same conclusions. The only thing I will say is that from what I understand, Ethan did not get data he should not have had. He gets this data every week after lineup lock to write his article for the DK Playbook. The “error” occurred when he posted that article while there was still potential for late swaps on the site.

  • einars

    @mrchuffy said...

    Funny now you can’t find petrgibbions profile on RG…

    https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/petrgibbons

    took me less time to find it than it would have taken you to actually write your post

  • Redskins4

    Imagine if dfs gets regulated because of this Ethan will go down in history because of his brain fart posting that article.

  • mchin1027

    @hokie2009 said...

    has access to pretty much anything he wants, and they put in the rule that he can’t play on fanduel, and called it a day.

    Great point. The sites themselves are basically saying “you work here, you potentially have access to certain information that gives you an unfair advantage, so you can’t play here”

    But please, feel free to take that advantage to other sites.

    Ridiculous.

    There are DK playbook writers who do play on DK. Adam Levitan? Clearly DK is drawing a distinction between Adam and Ethan, and it would be naive to think it’s limited to ownership %.

  • LarryLegend33

    @mrchuffy said...

    Funny now you can’t find petrgibbions profile on RG…

    It’s still there

    https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/petrgibbons

  • Priptonite

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    The only thing I will say is that from what I understand, Ethan did not get data he should not have had. He gets this data every week after lineup lock to write his article for the DK Playbook. The “error” occurred when he posted that article while there was still potential for late swaps on the site.

    He absolutely got data he should not have had. I’m not questioning Ethan’s character or attacking him, but it’s entirely possible that he could share that data with a friend who plays on DK.

  • einars

    please all of you go listen to dan back’s podcast….pleeeeeeeeeease

  • dude_abides7

    @milktruck said...

    It’s all fun and games until that joke gets you sued.

    Seriously…the guy referenced posted a forum thread dedicated, sarcastically as a hub for “Tin Foil Hat” banter. If he can have fun with this, so can others who fall on the other side of the argument.

  • hokie2009

    stew, I agree

    as I have stated earlier I think the whole ethan / playbook article is really … … … I hesitate to say “nothing” but it’s damn close to it.

    What it did do is raise awareness that these sites really truly do have zero protections against data leaks, I would guess except for maybe some policies saying you can’t do it – but if you’ve made mid-six, low-seven figures playing DFS, what are they going to do, fire you?

    I mean, it might not even be against the rules as they are now!

    So yeah the ethan thing – just raises some bigger issues.

    I wonder how much him posting that playbook article early will end up costing DK long-term, after they spend a bunch of money implementing fixes (hopefully)? Not that the playbook article was that significant – but like I said it’s raised the issue, and that’s important. And the fixes needed will have to go beyond making sure articles aren’t posted before all games have locked, obviously. Way way beyond that.

    What I would give to have access to that database of contest info and be able to query it … AND to have access to the W/L and profit/loss data for high-volume players? That … my gosh … you could really catapult yourself from being a good player to being an elite player almost over night with that kind of info. Anyone who says it wouldn’t be an advantage is not understanding it properly.

    The fact that there’s a fanduel employee who has done basically exactly that … … … lets just hope they put a stop to it now. These sites really do seem quite amateurish in almost every aspect of their operation. I hope some of the smart people who invested big money in these sites get involved and force them to become professionals, so that everybody doesn’t lose their stake in this game.

  • CaptainKirk12

    • x2

      2016 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2016 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    As a fairly high volume player this makes me sick to my stomache. The general statements provided by FD & DK aren’t making me feel any better either.

    Ethan’s comment in the thread stating that he is the only employee with access to the data is extremely worrisome and contradicts the DK statement that there are “internal controls”. How could there be a checks and balance system if Ethan is the only person with access to the data?

    This is not good, not good at all.

  • einars

    @dude_abides7 said...

    Yes, he goes by the user “einars” on RG and can be found on this thread.

    Full discloser: Probably not true, but sure fooled me.

    haha i am honored :D seriously tho…listen to dan back’s podcast…sums up the logical issues and completely insane non issues with this thread

  • mrchuffy

    @einars said...

    haha i am honored :D seriously tho…listen to dan back’s podcast…sums up the logical issues and completely insane non issues with this thread

    I didn’t hear him address the petrgibbons issue at all.

  • einars

    @mrchuffy said...

    I didn’t hear him address the petrgibbons issue at all.

    he talked about employees of one site playing on other sites

  • stevietpfl

    Morning Grind co-host, Lead NASCAR Analyst

    • 925

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

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    @CaptainKirk12 said...

    As a fairly high volume player this makes me sick to my stomache. The general statements provided by FD & DK aren’t making me feel any better either.

    Ethan’s comment in the thread stating that he is the only employee with access to the data is extremely worrisome and contradicts the DK statement that there are “internal controls”. How could there be a checks and balance system if Ethan is the only person with access to the data?

    This is not good, not good at all.

    I think Ethan meant he was the only one sent the data to do the article. I could be wrong, thats just how I read it.

  • mrchuffy

    @stevietpfl said...

    I think Ethan meant he was the only one sent the data to do the article. I could be wrong, thats just how I read it.

    Still seems crazy that writing an article would give him access to that data.

  • bedwards

    I just listened to Dan’s podcast. I’m just a small stakes player but after really listening to Dan and reading this thread I’m done playing. I cancelled my incentives membership and after the NFL contests finish I’ll withdrawal from the sites.

    Thank you Dan.

  • einars

    @mrchuffy said...

    Still seems crazy that writing an article would give him access to that data.

    the article was on ownership percentages. why wouldnt he get ownership percentage numbers to write an article on ownership percentages?

  • kbn121

    @CaptainKirk12 said...

    As a fairly high volume player this makes me sick to my stomache. The general statements provided by FD & DK aren’t making me feel any better either.

    Ethan’s comment in the thread stating that he is the only employee with access to the data is extremely worrisome and contradicts the DK statement that there are “internal controls”. How could there be a checks and balance system if Ethan is the only person with access to the data?

    This is not good, not good at all.

    Well said

  • mrchuffy

    @einars said...

    the article was on ownership percentages. why wouldnt he get ownership percentage numbers to write an article on ownership percentages?

    Yeah he can get it on Tuesday when the contest is done like everyone else, why should he be able to get it any earlier. Obviously they don’t have the proper controls in place.

  • LuDawgs

    I don’t think it’s an Ethan thing at all. I just think he brought the control deficiency in to light. It’s clear to me that the sites need very strong operational risk management teams in place and it’s not a requirement that they know anything about daily fantasy sports. One sector I’d look to in order to fill that type of team would be the Financial sector – as most Banks are really just large technology companies at this point (or are moving that direction) and many of the key risks inherent to their processes would translate well into DFS (for many reasons).

    I also think what’s very important is that people realize that regulation doesn’t mean control breakdowns won’t occur. Bank of America – one of the most regulated and risk controlled companies on earth – has control breakdowns that occur regularly when it comes to operational risk (people, process, systems and external events). So for people to scream “regulation” as the key control for the remediation of people related risk is not very smart. What would be smart is for the sites to:

    1. Proactively begin to build operational risk management teams.
    2. Begin documenting the functions within their company, the processes within each individual function, the risks inherent to those processes, and the controls for those risks.
    3. Document any gaps or control deficiencies that don’t effectively manage their key risks
    4. Document remediation plans, inclusive of milestones and dates for the completion of each milestone for their key risks

    Documentation seem like a key theme here? It should.

    This would represent a response that regulators would look for if they showed up today in Boston – and regulatory oversight aside – providing that response as their course of action would make everyone feel better than the response provided thus far.

    -Adam

  • dude_abides7

    @einars said...

    the article was on ownership percentages. why wouldnt he get ownership percentage numbers to write an article on ownership percentages?

    Because no one, especially people that are allowed to play DFS, should be given that information. Period. End of story.

    I think we all would get along fine, our lives intact, without his article as a consequence.

  • buoya20

    • 2017 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2018 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    .

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    • Last Updated 4 years ago
  • walterg55

    @LuDawgs said...

    I don’t think it’s an Ethan thing at all. I just think he brought the control deficiency in to light. It’s clear to me that the sites need very strong operational risk management teams in place and it’s not a requirement that they know anything about daily fantasy sports. One sector I’d look to in order to fill that type of team would be the Financial sector – as most Banks are really just large technology companies at this point (or are moving that direction) and many of the key risks inherent to their processes would translate well into DFS (for many reasons).

    I also think what’s very important is that people realize that regulation doesn’t mean control breakdowns won’t occur. Bank of America – one of the most regulated and risk controlled companies on earth – has control breakdowns that occur regularly when it comes to operational risk (people, process, systems and external events). So for people to scream “regulation” as the key control for the remediation of people related risk is not very smart. What would be smart is for the sites to:

    1. Proactively begin to build operational risk management teams.
    2. Begin documenting the functions within their company, the processes within each individual function, the risks inherent to those processes, and the controls for those risks.
    3. Document any gaps or control deficiencies that don’t effectively manage their key risks
    4. Document remediation plans, inclusive of milestones and dates for the completion of each milestone for their key risks

    Documentation seem like a key theme here? It should.

    This would represent a response that regulators would look for if they showed up today in Boston – and regulatory oversight aside – providing that response as their course of action would make everyone feel better than the response provided thus far.

    -Adam

    Well said. I would add that hiring an outside PR firm would be useful

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