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  • colinwdrew

    • 299

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2020 DraftKings FHWC Champion

    • 2021 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    So DK tweeted out millionaire maker ownership here http://playbook.draftkings.com/nfl/millionaire-maker-percent-owned-week-3/ which as of 230pm still includes ownership data for games that have not yet started. IMO this is a big leak and should never happen. It also seems like something that your average analyst should probably not have access too, and able to tell his buddies who is owned and who the best players have. Hey did you know that CSURAM has Randall Cobb going late? Given that they can access the macro results it seems probable they can access specific users during and/or before contests start.

    They definitely should no be sharing it publicly, if they’re going to do it just list the full rosters in the contest and call it a day.

    • Link
    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • mooseHAMMER78

    • Moderator

    @buoya20 said...

    this can honestly be the beginning of the end for DFS. Could you imagine if someone in the media caught light of this? You could be looking at a major news story in light of the barrage of advertisements and generally negative image that DFS garners among the main stream, not to mention the potential criminal investigations launched into the sites owners/employees. In my opinion this is no different than insider training. Fanduel and Draftkings should have taken a page from the professional sports leagues and banned all employees from playing. It defies logic to believe that the employees playing across site do not have access to similar if not even more useful data. Who is to say employees are not snatching up head to head games with newbs by seeing their players pre-lock? Does anyone even doubt that is happening at this point?

    My bank knows my account number…..whats to say an employee wont steal money from me?

  • Buffalo66

    @einars said...

    please all of you go listen to dan back’s podcast….pleeeeeeeeeease

    Just a reminder that it’s titled “RotoGrinders Daily Fantasy Fix Podcast, sponsored by FAN DUEL

    I listened and Dan says nothing about PetrGibbons situation.

  • LSRDustin

    Quoted from above: “Could you imagine if someone in the media caught light of this?”

    I can tell you that we know at least a couple of major news outlets will be writing about the subject this week.

  • buoya20

    • 2017 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2018 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    .

    • Link
    • Last Updated 4 years ago
  • MikeMineo

    @einars said...

    haha i am honored :D seriously tho…listen to dan back’s podcast…sums up the logical issues and completely insane non issues with this thread

    some good points, but the podcast’s initial delivery tends to provide the illusion that the majority in this thread are accusing Ethan of cheating or being insincere. Dan’s first 8 minutes of his podcast was criticizing maybe 1% of people in this thread.

    it’s just not correct. the majority of people in this thread take umbrage with the lack of regulations and the sheer number of DK players using data that’s not publicly available, not Ethan himself.

    Dan’s section where he blasts people who criticize DFS doesn’t make sense; in an industry that isn’t regulated, it’s UP to the consumers to criticize the industry and make some semblance of a legitimate self-regulation. “the haters of DFS” wouldn’t exist if the major companies’ greed wasn’t so rampant.

    it’s not so black and white between ignorant DFS haters and apologists; there are many people who love the concept of DFS and see it as a potentially wonderful industry to grow, but recognize that this growth is NOT possible without letting their voices be heard. and they would rather have no industry than one ripe with corruption and unfairness. can you really blame them?

    I guess the general RG staff sentiment that the consumers are over-reacting is just getting under my skin, especially when the financial alignment is so obvious. of course Dan “trusts” DK/FD… but to assume the majority of the community feels the same way is wrong (he makes this point at around 21 min in).

    this backlash is occurring because this isn’t the first highly questionable behavior these sites exhibited, with a canned PR response that does nothing. they have no incentive to do anything more.

    I appreciate that Dan admits that not everything is fine and dandy in DFS land, but I am of the personal belief that he is significantly under-estimating small groups of DFS players having access to data, whether it’s ownership % or knowing what Max’s core is for the week, that puts them at a significant edge for GPPs.

    it’s simple enough to offer a “plea” to the sites to fix things, as Dan did at the end of a podcast, but I and many others know full well that “pleas” and “playing nice” does not inspire change when change would involve removing a form of profit for many who are highly influential in the industry.

  • Unico10

    • 492

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #94

      RG Tiered Ranking

    As a player that only started a bit more than a year ago and really love sports and the challenge of DFS, I have been critical in the past.

    I think DK (I play primarily there) and FD have tremendous opportunity and that they are on their way to waste it.

    I am going to try to keep this post on point and relatively brief.

    DK and FD are spending “shiploads of money” in advertising to quote an infamous commercial.

    One would have assume they are doing this to attract AND RETAIN new players, and they took some steps to help retaining those players (DK limiting to 200 the multi entry in most GPPs for example), however without more transparency or a 3rd party agency monitoring and auditing contests the greed of few will eventually destroy this business as no amount of advertising will draw enough new players in to support it.

    We all saw things that made us raise one or two eyebrows in the past year or so.
    But there is no denying that something has radically changed in the large contests during the past few months. If I had to pick a date, I would pick the “”(player-popup)Channing Frye”:/players/channing-frye-1484 tournament”

    We do not know exactly what kind of activities, illegal or unethical or shady are going on.
    All I am saying is that when someone is too good to be true… he is often proven to be cheating.
    Just like a Barry Bonds or a ARod or a Lance Armstrong.

    All I know is that I will not be playing today or this week.
    Will play NFL Sunday and will reassess after next Sunday if this is fun or not for me anymore.

    An hiring from FD and DK of an independent auditor, a change from usernames to real names and a code of ethics for employees publicly available for all to see would definitely be something that would change my mind.

  • einars

    @Buffalo66 said...

    Just a reminder that it’s titled “RotoGrinders Daily Fantasy Fix Podcast, sponsored by FAN DUEL

    I listened and Dan says nothing about PetrGibbons situation.

    he doesnt call him out by name but he does talk about players of one site playing on other sites

  • Neiderman

    • 2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Well boys it’s been a fun ride … But after tonight’s MNF game I will be canceling my RG incentives and pulling all remaining dollars from all my active DFS accounts.
    I will not play unless my $$$ lost for the NFL season to this point are returned to me and the site get over site and or employees are no longer permitted to play. Your move DK and FD.

  • mrchuffy

    @Mooseman78 said...

    My bank knows my account number…..whats to say an employee wont steal money from me?

    Banks have controls in place so this can’t happen and if it did the employee would be terminated and prosecuted as well as your money being refunded.

  • buoya20

    • 2017 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2018 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    ..

    • Link
    • Last Updated 4 years ago
  • TeamSwish412

    What’s funny is everyone’s complaining, but is that going to stop you from playing? You can hem and haw (some of which I think people are just crying for the sake of being a troll)…But ultimately, you are all going to be playing this coming weekend

  • AndThisGuyPeedOnIt

    @einars said...

    the article was on ownership percentages. why wouldnt he get ownership percentage numbers to write an article on ownership percentages?

    I’m really struggling to convince myself that you aren’t astroturfing this forum on behalf of DK, FD, or both. Literally every post you make is an attempt to defend the indefensible, pretend that everything is a “conspiracy theory” until it is proven to be true, and then claim it doesn’t matter anyway.

  • dude_abides7

    @TeamSwish412 said...

    What’s funny is everyone’s complaining, but is that going to stop you from playing? You can hem and haw (some of which I think people are just crying for the sake of being a troll)…But ultimately, you are all going to be playing this coming weekend

    People can still complain about potholes in the road and still drive their car to work can’t they? I don’t get the argument that these two things are mutually exclusive.

  • lilscrapnike

    bad for the industry

  • hokie2009

    http://zachtrexler.blogspot.com/2015/10/fantasy-sports-and-sensitive-data.html

    Pretty good concise blog on the situation and a simple solution from an IT professional ….

  • walterg55

    @Unico10 said...

    As a player that only started a bit more than a year ago and really love sports and the challenge of DFS, I have been critical in the past and sometimes my criticism has been misunderstood.

    I think DK (I play primarily there) and FD have tremendous opportunity and that they are on their way to waste it.

    I am going to try to keep this post on point and relatively brief.

    DK and FD are spending “shiploads of money” to quote an infamous commercial in advertising.

    One would have assume they are doing this to attract AND RETAIN new players, and they took some steps to help retaining those players (DK limiting to 200 the multi entry in most GPPs for example), however without more transparency or a 3rd party agency monitoring and auditing contests the greed of few will eventually destroy this business as no amount of advertising will draw enough new players in to support it.

    We all saw things that made us raise one or two eyebrows in the past year or so.
    But there is no denying that something has radically changed in the large contests during the past few months. If I had to pick a date, I would pick the “”(player-popup)Channing Frye”:/players/channing-frye-1484 tournament”

    We do not know exactly what kind of activities, illegal or unethical or shady are going on.
    All I am saying is that when someone is too good to be true… he is often proven to be cheating.
    Just like a Barry Bonds or a ARod or a Lance Armstrong.

    All I know is that I will not be playing today or this week.
    Will play NFL Sunday and will reassess after next Sunday if this is fun or not for me anymore.

    An hiring from FD and DK of an independent auditor, a change from usernames to real names and a code of ethics for employees publicly available for all to see would definitely be something that would change my mind.

    Very well said and echoes my sentiments.

  • TwoSHAE

    @Cal said...

    I can see why people are going a little on the conspiracy theory side with this issue. We dont know anything that DK or FD dont tell us directly, so how can we trust it?

    However, I think people need to realize the real issue here isn’t the person & event that happened last weekend that brought this issue to light. The real issues are 1) Who has access to lineups/ownership percentages/player win loss records, 2) When do they have access to this information (pre-lock, post lock, after contests end), and 3) Should players with access to this information be allowed to play DFS on any site?

    Without definitive answers to those questions & neutral oversight/regulation, the accusations by conspiracy theorists will continue because nothing they say can actually be dis-proven.

    +1’ing this but wanted to add something.

    There are two huge issues at play.
    1) global ownership percentages in a certain contest, which would give a large advantage in choosing your exposure to certain players in both cash and GPP
    2) access to specific people’s lineups (ie, if an employee could see all of maxdalury’s lineups, that would not be okay)

    We need to know exactly who has exactly what information, and when they have it. The sites then need to put controls in place so no one has this information before lock.

  • dp47

    • 2012 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

    • 2012 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @Mooseman78 said...

    My bank knows my account number…..whats to say an employee wont steal money from me?

    Nowhere in this thread does anyone claim a draft kings employee took money directly out of someone’s account. Keep flooding this thread with nonsense and maybe it will go away.

  • buoya20

    • 2017 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2018 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @dp47 said...

    Nowhere in this thread does anyone claim an draft kings employee took money directly out of someone’s account. Keep flooding this thread with nonsense and maybe it will go away.

    ….

    • Link
    • Last Updated 4 years ago
  • Dleepi01

    What bothers me most is the half ass lawyer response from Fanduel and Draftkings. I want to hear from Robbins or Birnbach or Kalish or even Nigel. This problem is now a week old and the only person we are hearing from is Cal who is going “been in contact” with Kalish. This isn’t Cal’s problem. I pay a ton of rake to these sites and I want to hear from the people in charge. This fire is getting out of control and these guys are doing very little to put it out. It is time to quit hiding guys.

  • mooseHAMMER78

    • Moderator

    @dp47 said...

    Nowhere in this thread does anyone claim an draft kings employee took money directly out of someone’s account. Keep flooding this thread with nonsense and maybe it will go away.

    To be clear, I was not implying that at all. It was a direct response to the “Who is to say employees are not snatching up head to head games with newbs by seeing their players pre-lock?” in the quoted post.

    Sorry I was not more clear about that earlier.

  • dp47

    • 2012 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

    • 2012 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @buoya20 said...

    He was being sarcastic in response to my legitimate suspicion that employees might be using even more data to their advantage.

    No he wasn’t. He was hitting you with a tin foil hat meme. And it was that kind of bullshit that went around the first time this topic was brought up in an effort to make it go away with no real solution put in place.

  • ssbledsoe

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    This has turned into a complete and utter shitshow. Everyone in the DFS industry should be on their toes for ANYTHING that resembles impropriety. It seems like FD and DK are doing their best to beg for the government to step in and provide some good old fashioned DC level regulation…

  • Gsulaw16

    @Dleepi01 said...

    What bothers me most is the half ass lawyer response from Fanduel and Draftkings. I want to hear from Robbins or Birnbach or Kalish or even Nigel. This problem is now a week old and the only person we are hearing from is Cal who is going “been in contact” with Kalish. This isn’t Cal’s problem. I pay a ton of rake to these sites and I want to hear from the people in charge. This fire is getting out of control and these guys are doing very little to put it out. It is time to quit hiding guys.

    Agreed we need to hear from them, but no lawyer (or at least no good one) wrote that statement. That was a PR person. The lawyers will write the “rules going forward” while being careful not to tell you anything about what they were in the past.

  • realdeals

    I recall playing on a free NFL.com contests that had real time players %. I’d rather not do that, but we’d all know…and then submit our cash lu 30 secs before lock. Hah

    After further thought this is a bad idea for those that do scripting with hundreds of Lus. Make it that much easier for them.

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