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  • colinwdrew

    • 117

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    • Ranked #77

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings NFL KOTB Finalist

    So DK tweeted out millionaire maker ownership here http://playbook.draftkings.com/nfl/millionaire-maker-percent-owned-week-3/ which as of 230pm still includes ownership data for games that have not yet started. IMO this is a big leak and should never happen. It also seems like something that your average analyst should probably not have access too, and able to tell his buddies who is owned and who the best players have. Hey did you know that CSURAM has Randall Cobb going late? Given that they can access the macro results it seems probable they can access specific users during and/or before contests start.

    They definitely should no be sharing it publicly, if they’re going to do it just list the full rosters in the contest and call it a day.

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    • Last Updated 1 year ago
  • slcseas

    @cb35 said...

    The main problem here is the sites now want to administer the games and also get into the tout / analysis game. This is where potential issues arise. Ethan is writing an article for DK that shouldn’t be on that site.

    Best point made in this thread so far. It’s a far cry from giving beginner tutorials to keep the pond stocked, which is all DK Playbook should be.

  • xandamere

    The shame here is that no matter what the truth is, some people won’t believe it.

    Yes, Rotogrinders and the “big name” DFS personalities don’t seem to think this is a big deal. I suppose you could consider that evidence of some vast conspiracy, but it’s far more likely that it’s just the people with the most knowledge of the issue and the people involved actually don’t think it’s anything sketchy.

    There was a clear mistake made around publishing data early. Draftkings is going to fix that. But the whole paranoia about seeing ownership data early and using it to make lineups on other sites is just that: paranoia without any evidence whatsoever to support it.

    Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there is a conspiracy. But can’t we at least wait until we have some sort of proof before doing what the Internet normally does and going into a rage about it?

  • walterg55

    I would agree with you @Xandamere if the sites had been transparent and open in the past but they have not been.

  • Wombat

    He had to have gotten the ownership percentages after lock because they wouldn’t even be able to measure the ownership percentages before all the entries are put into the tourney. Unless they can take the ownership rates of the current entries before the contest is even full? Even then a lot of those lineups are probably being changed constantly. I don’t think you could measure that.

    Am I missing something? If there was late swap on FD it would be an problem but without it I don’t see why this is an issue.

  • Unc420us

    I hope DK posts their answer to this on their website and not in the thread like they did with the script issue. Most small time players prob don’t even think this is an issue and don’t read sites like Rotogrinders. This issue needs to come full circle so people know the types of things they are really up against, (supercomputers, inside info) so they can decide if its even worth playing a single entry into a tourney with a stacked deck against them, a question i find myself asking more and more.

  • fadein34

    This has nothing to do with FD. Nobody should have access to any data for a game that hasn’t started.

    This also has nothing to do personally with the person that had the access… ANYone with access to this data prior to games locking is a huge problem because they could pass that info on to other players or even “non-employees”.

    Would it be out of line to request a copy of phone records?

    Again, nothing personal just business.

  • dp47

    • 2012 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

    • 2012 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Anyone else remember the original defense against the possibility of foul play?

    “Site owners have so much at stake, this could possibly be a hundred million dollar industry, they wouldn’t dream of cheating in a $25,000 GPP”.

    Did that rationalization fly out the window when the first GPP hit six figures or when the first twelve dollar per hour CS rep was hired?

    Fanduel doesn’t even offer players a hard copy of everyone’s lineup at lock (if you took the under in the “how long would it take DP to bring up csv export?”, you win, again).

  • IAMLorde

    @fadein34 said...

    ANYone with access to this data prior to games locking is a huge problem because they could pass that info on to other players or even “non-employees”.

    For this reason, the solution cannot be to prohibit industry employees from playing in the industry. If the stated goal of prohibiting DFS employees from playing anywhere is “to prevent [situations like this] from happening,” taking this action clearly falls short of achieving the stated goal. One might be inclined to argue that it’s the “best step” the sites can take to achieve the goal, but I don’t think it is, because implementing this sort of rule would make it more difficult to expose the incidents of true fuckery (they’ll be better-disguised and less obvious). You just cannot eliminate it, period. No matter what systems these big sites put into place, someone will eventually decide it’s worth it to them to roll the dice and try beating it. It seems obvious, but I think the best way to disincentivize cheating is to (1) demonstrate the ability to catch cheaters with virtual certainty, and (2) punish relentlessly.

    In the instant case, if they discover he was cheating, punish to the extent allowable.

  • narniak

    I believe below is Ethan’s LU that won the $350,000 last week. All pretty reasonable looking plays IMO. What difference would it make if you knew the % owned from another site? You still have to pick the players that go off, and get the right combinations and stacks in your LU. That is far more important than ownership %.

    fanduel.com/games/13067/contests/13067-15194936/entries/227527336/scoring?entry=227527336

  • IAMLorde

    @narniak said...

    I believe below is Ethan’s LU that won the $350,000 last week. All pretty reasonable looking plays IMO. What difference would it make if you knew the % owned from another site? You still have to pick the players that go off, and get the right combinations and stacks in your LU. That is far more important than ownership %.

    fanduel.com/games/13067/contests/13067-15194936/entries/227527336/scoring?entry=227527336

    This misses the point. The result may be the reason we identified the potential problem, but the result, itself, is not the problem. If true, I’d take exception to what he’s been accused of if he failed to cash with any of the line-ups.

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    This issue is so much larger than this single incident. We need data control standards.

    With that in mind, given that RG has the largest data set of past user performance I think they should seize the moment to offer up how they control this data.

    Debunking what happened at DK on Sunday and when is of little consequence in the big picture. Although I think answers should be given, we must seek to solve the problem and not just play gotcha.

    FCK

  • deactivated59241

    • 450

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2015 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FCFWC Finalist

    @CrazyGabey said...

    @stevietpfl said…

    These are definitely questions we all want clear answers to. It can’t stop there though.

    All those questions become non-questions if site employees are not allowed to play DFS elsewhere. That is the true solution to this.

    Absolutely. The only solution that would make all players happy is for site employees to not be allowed to play DFS anywhere.

  • CrazyGabey

    @pokerrob1970 said...

    Not really. If the information is available to employees to see there will always be issues. They can easily pass that info along to friends to use on other sites or even on the site they work for and take a cut. Either limit the info to a site owner that has no reason to share it or just accept that this happens and there is nothing that can be done

    Well of course you can’t eliminate fraud completely. That’s true in every area of life. Just because you can’t stop an undesirable behavior completely doesn’t mean you can’t take steps to curb it. If employees were forced to adopt clandestine methods in order to play DFS, that will take away a huge incentive. The incentive being that as of right now there is no downside.

  • CrazyGabey

    @Cal said...

    Spoke with Matt Kalish, one of the founders of DraftKings. There is a statement coming Monday that will outline all of the procedures in place to protect this data. It sounds like there will be a couple of new policies that will completely prevent this from being an issue in the future.

    Decisions are made but they recognize this as an important issue so they are being deliberate as they prepare the statement.

    Thank you DraftKings for responding to this quickly.

  • Unico10

    • 448

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    • Ranked #70

      RG Tiered Ranking

    Is it possible to have a list of winners (or high finishers….) in large contests such as the DK Millionaire makers by State?

    You know how many % from TX, how many % from OH… How many from Massachusetts?

  • CoronaLime

    @Cal said...

    Kalish told me the statement Monday will detail how this information is currently protected from employees. It will also detail new policies for employess playing on other sites that will make everyone much more comfortable.

    Thanks Cal. I look forward to hearing what they have to say.

    Also, thank you for allowing this type of discussion to take place here, even though it would probably be in your best short-term financial interests, if negative topics about your affiliates were not openly discussed. This makes this a venue that people can look to, for open and honest discussions, without fear of censorship. In the end, that is even more important for your business… for people to trust YOU.

  • smutpeddlers

    • 253

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    • Ranked #27

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    It just seems like a really big issue, even if he didn’t cheat or use the information, that this information is able to be quiered by employees. Let’s say he asked the business analyst or whatever before 2 would he have gotten that information? I am not trying to crucify this guy just saying ….

    I also have another question maybe someone can answer. If someone cashed out money on FD after a big win and was found to be cheating later, what regulations are in place to recover that money and how is that reconciled? Just curious.

  • crazypaul

    @britdevine said...

    generally have to trust the process IMO.

    Brit, I dont think anyone can “trust the process” if there are no checks & balances. That is why regulation for these sites would be a good thing.

  • smutpeddlers

    • 253

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    • Ranked #27

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    Yeah I feel like it’s kind of a wild wild west atmosphere out there right now……. The stock market of the 80’s. There definitely is a Gordan Gekko somewhere we just don’t know him yet.

  • waffles2003

    @CrazyGabey said...

    Thank you DraftKings for responding to this quickly.

    Gabey, I hope this is sarcasm…I am kind of sick of sites addressing the problems “after” the fact and taking days to respond to different allegations.

    I understand that these sites are growing super fast but they are ran by super smart people so issues like these should never happen and should be addressed internally before anything can ever happen.

  • poonwhipped1

    I wonder how much air time Gabey will get now..

    On a serious note.

    Props to Cal in using his connections to get an answer.

  • MMathison04

    I’m not sure I understand what the pro argument is for a site employee to be able to play on another site. I understand the sites need some employees who know and understand DFS. I also know that those employees are valuable. Compensate them at a rate that they are willing to forego the opportunity to play on other sites. In addition, it seems like strange business practice anyway. I doubt coca-cola would be thrilled if an employee won a “Pepsi Challenge.”

  • hotpants

    I don’t care where he is playing..

    Why should anyone have access to ownership percentages before all contests including those players have locked, and everyone can see them?

    F his “article”.. Wait until the info is available to all, then analyse it, then write your article. If it’s that easy for him to make a mistake, and post percentages to the whole world, how hard would it be for him to email that info to other players/friends (that do play on DK), and give them a huge advantage over users that don’t have this information?

    Nobody really needs access to this information ahead of time. Seems like it can only cause problems

  • sntw

    @IAMLorde said...

    I think the best way to disincentivize cheating is to (1) demonstrate the ability to catch cheaters with virtual certainty, and (2) punish relentlessly.

    The sites have already shown with the scripting issue that they are not capable of catching cheaters (Or don’t care too catch them,) and instead of “punish relentlessly” they will change the rules to benefit certain users who are caught by the general public.

    Anyone with half a brain knows where there is large sums of money available, there is always cheating and or corruption. In this case I don’t believe Ethan was using the info for personal gain, but I do believe info like this has been leaked before and will be leaked again. It is up to the players to decide if the edge they lose to the small % of insiders makes the game unbeatable or not.

  • Unico10

    • 448

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    • Ranked #70

      RG Tiered Ranking

    “Anyone with half a brain knows where there is large sums of money available, there is always cheating and or corruption. In this case I don’t believe Ethan was using the info for personal gain, but I do believe info like this has been leaked before and will be leaked again.”

    Exactly.
    Looking forward to the next brand new player from Massachussets placing in the top 10 with his improbable single bullet lineup.

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