• colinwdrew

    • 299

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2020 DraftKings FHWC Champion

    • 2021 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    So DK tweeted out millionaire maker ownership here which as of 230pm still includes ownership data for games that have not yet started. IMO this is a big leak and should never happen. It also seems like something that your average analyst should probably not have access too, and able to tell his buddies who is owned and who the best players have. Hey did you know that CSURAM has Randall Cobb going late? Given that they can access the macro results it seems probable they can access specific users during and/or before contests start.

    They definitely should no be sharing it publicly, if they’re going to do it just list the full rosters in the contest and call it a day.

    • Link
    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • TuscaloosaJohnny

    @dp47 said...

    Anyone else remember the original defense against the possibility of foul play?

    “Site owners have so much at stake, this could possibly be a hundred million dollar industry, they wouldn’t dream of cheating in a $25,000 GPP”.

    Did that rationalization fly out the window when the first GPP hit six figures or when the first twelve dollar per hour CS rep was hired?

    Fanduel doesn’t even offer players a hard copy of everyone’s lineup at lock (if you took the under in the “how long would it take DP to bring up csv export?”, you win, again).

    Same defense we heard with online poker, but that theory was debunked years later following several cheating scandals.

  • easternmh

    • x3

      Blogger of the Month

    Unfortunately, these type of incidents and lack of transparency lead to government intervention….

    DK should let a 3rd party in (w/no affiliation ala an audit) and let them conduct an investigation. Only way for full transparency and de-bunk accusations, etc. Company statements will not keep the pitchforks at bay on something like this IMO

  • FkCoolers

    Anyone who works for a DFS site should not be allowed to play DFS, period. It’s a big conflict of interest since none of us know what access they do or do not have and none of us should ever trust some forum post from the actual person who is being doubted.

    Some of his friends in the DFS community “vouch” for him? Congrats. That’s called being biased. I don’t think any of them are covering up for him but I do think none of them will say a single word unless irrefutable evidence surfaces, much the same way most of us would side with our friends until it becomes too apparent that we should no longer side with them.

    I do not for one second think that people who work for DFS sites aren’t using what should be confidential data for personal gain, either by leveraging it to play on other sites themselves or by providing that information to others.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise is extremely naive.

    All I can say is that everyone should really hope that stories like these don’t reach broader audiences and open the possibility for shops to be shut down.

  • milktruck

    While it’s entirely possible he had no intent to be unethical, the mere fact this perception exists is proof enough something has to be done. At some point there’s going to be government regulation when this much money is involved. When that day comes and they look under the mattress, I hope DK and FD don’t have anything under there for the feds to find.

  • dude_abides7

    @Cal said...

    I know Ethan well. His first job in the industry was with RotoGrinders and he actually worked out of the office with us in Nashville before moving back to Boston and taking a job with DK. I believe him, and his story follows logic, so I will stand by it.

    The conspiracy theory minded crowd will probably take that as even more alarming evidence of an RG cover up, so not sure that information helps.

    Cal – I’m thankful that RG is here so we can all discuss matters like this. I for one am frustrated with the lack of transparency from these industry pillars and how it always seems that they cleaning up after the bed is soiled as supposed to having checks and balances in place to prevent issues from occurring in the first place.

    I understand that in your position as RG head you need to be level minded when addressing situations like this. However, in regards to Ethan, simply saying “you believe him” isn’t gonna be enough for many here to file this issue away. Nor should it be. I don’t think the camp that believes something smells fishy are conspiracy theorists. They probably are just looking for a better level of proof than simply taking someone at their word, because he’s known to many as a “good guy”.

  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    The fact that RG has connections to Ethan is going to make people even more skeptical. I get that. Also, I have to admit that if ownership percentages were provided to me, I would certainly use it to my advantage. However, that’s not much different than the Thursday field reports that several sites are publishing now.

    The key to the future is ensuring that this data is not available to anyone pre-lock. 99% of us would “take a peek” if it was provided to us. The fact that it’s going to be hard for the sites to prove this is going to make people naturally skeptical.

    There are no fantastic answers here outside of regulation, and like Yukerboy said on the last page, that doesn’t sit well with me, either.

  • smutpeddlers

    Yup this is a total mess………..

  • FkCoolers

    @Cal said...

    Spoke with Matt Kalish, one of the founders of DraftKings. There is a statement coming Monday that will outline all of the procedures in place to protect this data. It sounds like there will be a couple of new policies that will completely prevent this from being an issue in the future.

    Decisions are made but they recognize this as an important issue so they are being deliberate as they prepare the statement.

    Oh good – more reactionary statements from companies regarding things that should have already had procedures in place for such basic risk control and error prevention.

    Good stuff.

  • jkokbaker

    I agree with the people saying if you work for a DFS site you should not be able to play DFS on any site. I am surprised to hear this was not commonplace already. Just having the possibility of cheating makes both of he sites look bad, and puts the public eye on more possible impropriety. There has to be rules put in place NOW that prevent any employee from any site from playing on any DFS site. Short of this will probably not be enough. If playing is really important to any employees of these sites then i guess they need to decide if a job is more important than playing.

  • Unico10

    • 492

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #94

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @nymjjb said...

    I have little doubt that “insider trading” occurs

    Without accusing anyone… We need to realize that the structure of the game itself and the exponential growth makes UNAVOIDABLE that “stuff” happened, is happening and will happen.

    Temptation must be a daily occurrence.
    Think about many of us with people asking for advice, or as someone posted, people asking to buy lineups

    Now think of a young person fresh out of college, with student loan debt and many friends also fresh out of college with student loan debts…. “You got a job at a DFS site? Wait, how about….”

  • midway13

    Not sure i even understand this but cant you see percentages during games? Would this impact a live event or are rosters locked at those? I am a small timer so out of my league


    @Unico10 said...

    Now think of a young person fresh out of college, with student loan debt and many friends also fresh out of college with student loan debts…. “You got a job at a DFS site? Wait, how about….”

    All of the people that work at these sites are stand up, this would never happen!

  • smutpeddlers

    All of this has started to make me think about what type of systems they have in place to protect our social security numbers, credit card information, ensure that people are able to hack into the system and change lineups mid-slate. I think this is a huge issue. In playing at DK, you put your trust in the business that they are doing their due diligence to run a well planned and ethical business.

    If this much lack of planning has occurred up to now, how many other issues are there? The issues that they are runNing into, to say the least, have probably been encountered in other business ventures. It’s hard to believe that when you raise this much investment, that they are having such fundamental, ethical and technological core business issues. It’s actually kind of baffling. This is not tin hat conspiracy here, these are straight up facts. These are the types of issues that are going to bring this industry down……. I think this is really bad for DK. This has nothing to do with that CSURams guy either. He just was the accidental whistle-blower in this case.

  • Warriv

    I’m glad this is being discussed now as I do think it is a big issue. I found it disturbing that this thread was initially locked so that we could not discuss it.


    @Warriv said...

    I found it disturbing that this thread was initially locked so that we could not discuss it.

    This is not a public domain, this is owned by RG and private. Consider the amount of money RG makes off of DK, then ask yourself what you would do if it was your call.

    I wouldn’t just lock the thread, I would delete it!

  • Avgplayer

    Well it looks like Fanduel may get caught into DraftKings leaks.

    Summary, A employee from FanDuel is rated in the top 50 after playing only on DraftKings in the past 6 Months.

  • chrispm



  • Indybakeman

    Cards- No disrespect here as I agree with most of what you are saying. Listen, i really enjoy the useful content and insight you provide @ RG, but really, you think 99% would “take a peek”? I know I can say without a doubt I would not .. Label me an idiot..whatever..That would def. mess with my morals, integrity or whatever….. Was just surprised to read that you “would certainly use it to your advantage”. Out of curiosity, why would you use the ownership numbers? because you wanted to win or because you thought 99% other DFSer were too?

    Bottom Line is when money is involved some people get real funny.

    Why cant there be some Independent Internal Information Technology Audit or something like a SOX compliant Audit group for these companies? IDK…I just saw this today and it just bummed me out. Sorry Cards if I came across the wrong way.

  • chrispm



  • chrispm



  • intimadator2007

    This is getting major traction and it’s not going to end well. .

  • waffles2003

    @intimadator2007 said...

    This is getting major traction and it’s not going to end well. .

    This is why I think DraftKings should have said something right away. They are hurting themselves even more by waiting until tomorrow…

  • Putz

    @traction said...

    I would love to see the dfs sites take ownership of this and come out with systems and procedures to prevent this. While the data leak is a concern the bigger issue is employees having insight into the data and using that inside information to their benefit on the other sites where they can play as a player.

    I am surprised that this is allowed in the first place. As protective about player data that Pokerstars is I wonder if they have those same systems in place for Starsdraft. I would venture to guess they do but I’m not sure. Draftkings clearly doesn’t but has the opportunity here to put in place a system that does not allow employees to see player lineups and use that info for their own personal gain at other sites such as FD or Starsdraft or wherever.

    Though this is not on the scale of the UB superuser keep in mind that was only discovered by a data leak of an employee. I hope this data leak turns out to be a good change and creates widespread industry change. If it doesn’t it will end badly and guarantee regulation and governmental scrutiny after someone gets hurt. No nio nio please.

    Agreed. No single employee should have access to this data until contests complete. End of story. Checks and balances, along with technical controls, should be in place to ensure this.

    Can anyone give me one reason why someone should have these stats before contests complete, unless fully transparent to the general public and made available to all users?

  • jonathan627

    This really is a wake up call for the industry IMO, unfortunately it might be too late. I am definitely no conspiracy theorist, but put me in the group that finds this HIGHLY disturbing. Even if Ethan “did no wrong” in a sense, what about all the other people that have had access to similar information in the past that didn’t become public knowledge?! The more and more I think about this, the more and more upset I get. I don’t like the feeling I have right now, I feel very uneasy knowing that contests I’ve previously been in could have been compromised with an unfair advantage provided (intentionally or unintentionally it doesn’t matter) for other players.

    What also sucks is that you can’t just say “oh well I’m taking my money off DK to go elsewhere now”, because these same players play on the other sites too and that kind of information is still relevant on other sites in terms of data like ownership %‘s. I am also disappointed in some of the RG staff coming on here and trying to play the subject down in a sense. As a face of the DFS community, RG should be front and center demanding answers with no bias just like some of the members on this message board. And before anyone chimes in here and calls me a “sore loser” or anything like that, I have played DK almost exclusively this year and am up for the year so that has nothing to do with my personal opinion on this. I am just very disappointed in pretty much all parties involved here and can’t help but think about what has happened in the past. Ughh, alright I’m done venting…this is just gross.

  • Putz

    @britdevine said...

    There is ALWAYS someone at every site that can access anything they want at any time. Generally the head programming guys.

    It is what it is.

    Obviously this was a mistake to publish them early, or give any employee access to these early that isnt the head guy in charge, but you generally have to trust the process IMO.

    100 % WRONG. There are checks and balances in IT security that apply here to prevent a malicious insider from deleting/stealing data or insider collusion. To circumvent this, you would need 2-3 people to be in cahoots, many of which are highly usually highly paid employees.

    You never want the Database users to be Database admins (editing it) and you never want the database admins to be be able to edit the system logs that track every database action, both database read and edit (only system admins). This is called the principle of least privilege and separation of roles/duties. This allows one of the other admin entities to verify if/when Ethan, or any other employee, read or edited the database. IF a site is giving one person all of these roles it should/would be an immediate red flag, and the integrity of contests should be questioned because you can do anything you want and subsequently delete the logs to remove evidence of activity. I hope this is not the case.

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