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  • colinwdrew

    • 299

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2020 DraftKings FHWC Champion

    • 2021 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    So DK tweeted out millionaire maker ownership here http://playbook.draftkings.com/nfl/millionaire-maker-percent-owned-week-3/ which as of 230pm still includes ownership data for games that have not yet started. IMO this is a big leak and should never happen. It also seems like something that your average analyst should probably not have access too, and able to tell his buddies who is owned and who the best players have. Hey did you know that CSURAM has Randall Cobb going late? Given that they can access the macro results it seems probable they can access specific users during and/or before contests start.

    They definitely should no be sharing it publicly, if they’re going to do it just list the full rosters in the contest and call it a day.

    • Link
    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @phillygamecox said...

    Again, totally agree this whole thread is way out of hand. But there isn’t any argument to be made that Ethan did nothing wrong. Maybe it’s semantics and we can call it a “mistake.” But, I don’t think anybody can say Ethan is in the clear here—it’s that post that started this discussion in the first place.

    I totally don’t believe Ethan is in the clear here , but I also don’t have enough facts to call him a cheater or anything else. This was a problem with the system that needs to be fixed. But , the continuous bombardment of negativity from grinders isn’t helping the problem of public perception for DFS.

  • hambazaza

    RG Blog Program Manager, 2014 RG Party Beer Pong Champion

    • Blogger of the Month

    • Beer Pong Champion

    @mchin1027 said...

    Before anybody takes this thread the wrong way, I 100% am not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing. I know there is a huge thread about the ownership leak, but I wanted to start a separate discussion focusing on people other than Ethan.

    Adam Levitan hosts a DK podcast, with CSURAM and AlSmizzle (who join once a week). Adam is also a regular contributor on Playbook.

    In a podcast last week, Adam also pointed out the the winner of the listener league, a DK tournament for listeners of the podcast, was won by another writer on Playbook.

    We know now that Ethan has access to information not available to the public. His job description on Linkedin is “Managing editors and overall goals/vision of the DraftKings Playbook – the written content provider of DraftKings.com’

    Is it not absurd, that Draftkings has a policy in place which prevents employees from playing on Draftkings (potentially because they have an unfair advantage), but yet there are at least two other writers for Playbook who clearly do?

    Maybe Adam is an independent contractor, maybe he doesn’t have access to the same databases Ethan does. But given the scrutiny now facing the industry, I think DK should immediately shut down the podcast and Playbook, and remove any affiliation with people like Adam, CSURAM, etc.

    Thoughts?

    hey, I write soccer articles for the playbook. I’ve finished high in some soccer GPPs.

    The only thing I have access to is the back end of wordpress that hosts playbook. I dont even know what their database of player data looks like… please enough with this

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @headChopper said...

    Wow. This could have been a good building ground to expose to flaws in the sites management of data in a constructive way and get the ball rolling on changes that needed to be made. Instead it turned into a bashing of certain people without any proof that and wrong was done.
    Not only that, but all the false cries of conspiracy, cheating and fraud- without one iota of evidence- has drawn so much negative attention on the industry (that was already disliked by outsiders for reasons I stated in my previous post) that the media took it and ran with the negativity.
    So I hope this isn’t the case, but in a year from now, when you guys are sitting around on a Tuesday night, with no MLB daily fantasy or NBA to play, the error of your ways is going to smack you in the face like a brick.
    There are proper ways to constructively get the ball rolling on change….and then there is the way that a portion of you chose to go about it in this thread.

    This makes sense. Everybody should take notice. But as always , headchopper will be attacked because he is a stalwart in the industry and wins money. He will be accused of just backing the sharks and his “buddies”.

  • battlesign

    • Blogger of the Month

    I just can not believe the sites let any of their employees play as themselves, publicly, on any site. I mean, they going to use someones account and get around it somehow, and oh well, but playing as themselves anywhere but their site and no one saw this coming? And why did ownership percentages have to be released ASAP in that gaff? Timing was a major factor in how this blew up. It’s not a journalism race to “get the scoop”.

    And we dont want government regulation of anything. If we ran our business like the government does we would all be out of business. NO business wants more government regulation. You think costs go down with regs? C’mon man. The cost for players will go up as costs increase to run the business. We are all adults and anything can be done better without them.

  • gje627

    I heard a DK employee was the back judge last night for the Lions/Seahawks game. Apparently he had the Seahawks defense in a large GPP over on FD. Needless to say, he won the FD jackpot last night!

  • electrichaz3

    mods take the few rational posts on this thread and apply them. head chopper is right and I’ve been saying it all thread. clean this thread up, ban the enemy from the site as there are several non dfs players posting just to give black eyes ITT.

    again, FD ownership percentages are available for to see!!! not just Ethan.

    go ahead, take that valuable inside trading secret and make a winning lineup with it.

    i dare you

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 204

      RG Overall Ranking

    So the big question now is will the leagues and major companies associated with dfs sever their ties? That will likely be the signal if we are headed towards an outright ban or regulation

  • CeeGee

    • Ranked #66

      RG Tiered Ranking

    this is not a good “look” for the industry

  • einars

    @headChopper said...

    Wow. This could have been a good building ground to expose to flaws in the sites management of data in a constructive way and get the ball rolling on changes that needed to be made. Instead it turned into a bashing of certain people without any proof that and wrong was done.
    Not only that, but all the false cries of conspiracy, cheating and fraud- without one iota of evidence- has drawn so much negative attention on the industry (that was already disliked by outsiders for reasons I stated in my previous post) that the media took it and ran with the negativity.
    So I hope this isn’t the case, but in a year from now, when you guys are sitting around on a Tuesday night, with no MLB daily fantasy or NBA to play, the error of your ways is going to smack you in the face like a brick.
    There are proper ways to constructively get the ball rolling on change….and then there is the way that a portion of you chose to go about it in this thread.

    this X1000

  • letterj007

    @electrichaz3 said...

    mods take the few rational posts on this thread and apply them. head chopper is right and I’ve been saying it all thread. clean this thread up, ban the enemy from the site as there are several non dfs players posting just to give black eyes ITT.

    again, FD ownership percentages are available for to see!!! not just Ethan.

    go ahead, take that valuable inside trading secret and make a winning lineup with it.

    i dare you

    “FD ownership percentages [I assume you mean on Thursday] are available for to see”

    Not in baseball. And that’s where my concerns lie.

    His gaffe in football is the only “evidence” that we have though that DK employees have access to ownership splits pre-player-lock

  • MrSnuffleupagus

    @headChopper said...

    Wow. This could have been a good building ground to expose to flaws in the sites management of data in a constructive way and get the ball rolling on changes that needed to be made. Instead it turned into a bashing of certain people without any proof that and wrong was done.
    Not only that, but all the false cries of conspiracy, cheating and fraud- without one iota of evidence- has drawn so much negative attention on the industry (that was already disliked by outsiders for reasons I stated in my previous post) that the media took it and ran with the negativity.
    So I hope this isn’t the case, but in a year from now, when you guys are sitting around on a Tuesday night, with no MLB daily fantasy or NBA to play, the error of your ways is going to smack you in the face like a brick.
    There are proper ways to constructively get the ball rolling on change….and then there is the way that a portion of you chose to go about it in this thread.

    Last time people got crazy like this, they were right. If you don’t act up, stuff gets swept under the rug. Could Ethan be innocent?sure but there’s just to much against him.

  • phillygamecox

    @electrichaz3 said...

    mods take the few rational posts on this thread and apply them. head chopper is right and I’ve been saying it all thread. clean this thread up, ban the enemy from the site as there are several non dfs players posting just to give black eyes ITT.

    again, FD ownership percentages are available for to see!!! not just Ethan.

    go ahead, take that valuable inside trading secret and make a winning lineup with it.

    i dare you

    banning people, removing responses will only add fuel to the fire and increase the conspiracy theory. Like bhdevault said a few pages back – they can’t win with any approach of moderating this thread.

  • electrichaz3

    @CeeGee said...

    @electrichaz3

    Problem is, the “normal” people couldn’t see the data before the contest locked

    so….

    wrong. we can all see the data pre lock here on rg.

    we all play Thursday slates to edge ownership for Sunday main games. are we cheating?

  • rgyanks

    @hambazaza said...

    ok, since im tired of the accusations and wanted to know for myself, could Ethan have built his team using only the field report posted on RotoGrinders here on Thursday after lineups lock and without insider information?

    Here’s an image of his lineup from the millionaire on FD in week 3

    and here’s a link to the RG field report

    I also added the ownership %s from the playbook article linked in the top post

    Player Thursday Ownership Sunday Ownership DK Ownership per Playbook
    Andy Dalton 3.1% 2.3% 2.5%
    Adrian Peterson 11% 18% 22.36%
    Devonta Freeman 5.5% 6.7% 7.97%
    Randall Cobb 5.2% 8.2% not shown in PB
    A.J. Green 1.6% 4.4% 5.99%
    Allen Hurns 1.1% 2% 2.08%
    Greg Olsen 5.2% 10.5% 8.29%
    Stephen Gostkowski 11.4% 10.7% not shown in PB
    Seattle D/ST 18.1% 22.6% not shown in PB

    So basically, all except for his QB and his K ownership percentages went down from the thursday ownership. and the numbers that are shown are very similar from DK to FD.

    My point is he didn’t need the DK numbers to build his team from low owned players. All he needed were the FD numbers THAT ARE AVAILABLE RIGHT HERE ON THIS SITE EVERY THURSDAY.

    I think you are addressing the people claiming he definitely cheated and the news articles that are claiming that he used “insider trading” to win $350K. Thats fine and I agree with your refutation of those statements.

    But I think this post misses the point as to the actual problem. I think your post comes from the standpoint of lets say he did know before lock, would that be any different than the Thursday field report. So lets start at the premise that he did have it before lock (I DO NOT AT THIS TIME THINK HE DID HAVE IT BEFORE LOCK, JUST AS I DONT THINK YOU DO, ALTHOUGH I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE). Sure he could have constructed that lineup without the DK info. But its also possible that the DK info helped him as an overall strategy for the tournament. With Dalton, its interesting that his ownership went down, considering almost all players ownership goes up from thursday with the removal of the thursday night players (and those players tend to be over-owned). And Dalton’s ownership is close on FD and DK. So its possible that Ethan sees this and decides that Dalton’s ownership is too low. So he goes on to make 50 entries with Dalton at QB. And one of them hits. I do not know if this is what happened, FD doesn’t allow for a way to reasonably get this info. But we are talking hypothetically. The problem with your analysis is that you are looking at one line-up, whereas the potential advantage is in how to use the information to create overall strategy for a tournament.

    And I was one of the people in the first few pages of this thread saying that for the most part, the Field Report is more valuable than the potential DK info. And let me reiterate that this whole post assumed something that I do not believe is true at the moment.

  • periewe

    @headChopper said...

    Wow. This could have been a good building ground to expose to flaws in the sites management of data in a constructive way and get the ball rolling on changes that needed to be made. Instead it turned into a bashing of certain people without any proof that and wrong was done.
    Not only that, but all the false cries of conspiracy, cheating and fraud- without one iota of evidence- has drawn so much negative attention on the industry (that was already disliked by outsiders for reasons I stated in my previous post) that the media took it and ran with the negativity.
    So I hope this isn’t the case, but in a year from now, when you guys are sitting around on a Tuesday night, with no MLB daily fantasy or NBA to play, the error of your ways is going to smack you in the face like a brick.
    There are proper ways to constructively get the ball rolling on change….and then there is the way that a portion of you chose to go about it in this thread.

    True, some posts aren’t constructive. Ethan hasn’t done anything to squash it and FD/DK haven’t either.

    As a Network guy I know that instead of addressing the information that came out that it was a one time query he stated that the query was done after lock.

    Many know you can query information all day long if you have access to the DB. Sorry HeadChopper——it isn’t going to be good. As smart as Ethan is it was a very weak, sneaky response—-sure seemed that he was hiding something to me.

    The question is what data was he or any employee at FD/DK etc. able to access pre lock for any tournament. They need to answer that question in my mind to clear this up.

    To top it off they have to lock the access to this data as it is obvious there are some leaks.

  • pmsimkins

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    I think Calvin Johnson had the Seahawks defense, KJ Wright had Abdullah and the back judge had the Seahawks money line. Lets discuss for another 70 pages!

  • MrMcGibbletsESQ

    @headChopper said...

    Wow. This could have been a good building ground to expose to flaws in the sites management of data in a constructive way and get the ball rolling on changes that needed to be made. Instead it turned into a bashing of certain people without any proof that and wrong was done.
    Not only that, but all the false cries of conspiracy, cheating and fraud- without one iota of evidence- has drawn so much negative attention on the industry (that was already disliked by outsiders for reasons I stated in my previous post) that the media took it and ran with the negativity.
    So I hope this isn’t the case, but in a year from now, when you guys are sitting around on a Tuesday night, with no MLB daily fantasy or NBA to play, the error of your ways is going to smack you in the face like a brick.
    There are proper ways to constructively get the ball rolling on change….and then there is the way that a portion of you chose to go about it in this thread.

    have you looked at Ethan’s MLB ROI? how would you describe it relative to other winning players?

  • habes1289

    This is my first post here, though I’ve been playing small stakes DFS on and off for 5 years and have lurked here for a few months. So my opinion probably does not mean much but I do have some thoughts.

    I think the sites made a good first step today in not allowing their employees to play DFS whatsoever anymore. That was an optics move that simply had to be done due to the recent circumstances, regardless of if what happened was done legitimately/legally or not.

    Ultimately I don’t see this being the downfall of DFS. It’s already a multi-billion dollar industry that the four professional leagues love to have around (think of how much interest you have in a random, out of conference league game compared to 15 years ago) from both a sponsorship, advertisement, partnership, and television perspective.

    What I can see happening is a form of government regulation because of this, because the overarching issue of data integrity is a very legitimate flaw at this point that could scare a lot of people away, especially given the heavy, “you can do it!” type advertising that’s in all of our faces 24/7 these days. That would suck, but it might be the best option in the current environment, and as long as it stays legal in the 40+ states it is, I don’t think anyone would complain that much (though it could/would stunt some industry growth overall).

    Ideally, the sites would get out in front of this further and perform an independent investigation that would hopefully clear themselves over any wrongdoing. But without knowing what happened or how their specific businesses work, maybe that’s not the best idea.

    I do hope that this all blows over. Today finally marked some progress regarding this scandal and I hope that continues. Like I said, I think the economic advantages to the pro leagues will forever keep DFS afloat in some capacity, but let’s hope that this does not cause a meteoric rise (even further) in priority to lose what’s in front of us now.

  • jmo26

    @headChopper said...

    Wow. This could have been a good building ground to expose to flaws in the sites management of data in a constructive way and get the ball rolling on changes that needed to be made. Instead it turned into a bashing of certain people without any proof that and wrong was done.
    Not only that, but all the false cries of conspiracy, cheating and fraud- without one iota of evidence- has drawn so much negative attention on the industry (that was already disliked by outsiders for reasons I stated in my previous post) that the media took it and ran with the negativity.
    So I hope this isn’t the case, but in a year from now, when you guys are sitting around on a Tuesday night, with no MLB daily fantasy or NBA to play, the error of your ways is going to smack you in the face like a brick.
    There are proper ways to constructively get the ball rolling on change….and then there is the way that a portion of you chose to go about it in this thread.

    This.

  • infinite420

    Most people crying foul are doing it moreso in the direction of draftkings and their lack of transparency. Most people here know Ethan is a great dfs player and I just think him winning 350k+ the same week this happened is just a coincidence. The true issue here has nothing to do with Ethan or any other individual. It has to do with the principal that a dk employee could obtain ownership % before those games lock. Even though that dk employee cannot utilize that information on dk themselves, a dk employee could easily sell that information or just give it to someone s/he sees fit.

  • letterj007

    @infinite420 said...

    Most people crying foul are doing it moreso in the direction of draftkings and their lack of transparency. Most people here know Ethan is a great dfs player and I just think him winning 350k+ the same week this happened is just a coincidence. The true issue here has nothing to do with Ethan or any other individual. It has to do with the principal that a dk employee could obtain ownership % before those games lock. Even though that dk employee cannot utilize that information on dk themselves, a dk employee could easily sell that information or just give it to someone s/he sees fit.

    Or use it himself or herself on another site. But yes.

  • Georgesteele

    Really telling that people are very quick to say it’s not a big deal or assume someone is a losing player because they complain. Losing football player yes, very profitable basketball and baseball. I am complaining because I want the same information available to other people. Why would that make me a losing player? A losing player wouldn’t even understand the ramifications of how important and vital that information is. If you are are deciding between 5 pitchers and one of them will be under 5% owned that is a big advantage if you think they are all tiered equally.

  • yanks237

    After reading through several pages of this thread I do believe there is some serious concern of what has happened recently. I am a small stakes player and rarely touch GPP’s anymore so I believe I have an unbiased view of what has happened. Regardless of whether Ethan had this information or not prior to lock, this can not continue to happen. The public’s view of this is insider trading and that is the message being sent across the screens of millions of televisions from yesterday to the next couple of days. Unfortunately, almost all of America will have heard of this controversy by the end of the week, and it is now serious damage control for DraftKings and Fanduel.

    Whether you believe this information gives an advantage or not simply does not matter. Large media corporations such as the NY Times and CNN have painted a gruesome image of the industry that has been seen my millions. A close friend reached out to me regarding the news yesterday inquiring about these stories, he has never played and I have been attempting to get him involved. His immediate reaction was of concern and that he was no longer interested. My fear is that like many potential new on the fence players this news will push them away.

    I believe the gray areas involved in DFS such as entry limits and employee participation need to be addressed immediately. Now FanDuel and DraftKings have both banned their employees from using other sites following this news, but what exactly defines an employee is next. People like Adam Levitan, Jonathan Bales and many more are all part of content team for these websites. (I am not saying they have “insider information” just pointing out the facts.) Now are they technically employees of DraftKings, I would say so, and believe they should be able to play, but I think the public’s opinion would be that they may have access to an unfair advantage. And to those who say well if you think they have an advantage then you just simply aren’t good enough and need to get better or get out. Well if we shy away all those fish, this explosive industry will quickly see a demolishing downfall and I believe will be impossible to recover.

    To conclude, this information leak is damaging to DFS as a whole, which is unfortunate for all of us. However, the focus needs to go away from what happened and focus on creating a new image of Daily Fantasy Sports. It can no longer be skewed by these gray areas and it is the site’s responsibilities to bring solid rules and structure to the industry. They need to reel in those now reluctant fish that the game has integrity and is safe to play.

  • Battery1975

    @headChopper said...

    Wow. This could have been a good building ground to expose to flaws in the sites management of data in a constructive way and get the ball rolling on changes that needed to be made. Instead it turned into a bashing of certain people without any proof that and wrong was done.
    Not only that, but all the false cries of conspiracy, cheating and fraud- without one iota of evidence- has drawn so much negative attention on the industry (that was already disliked by outsiders for reasons I stated in my previous post) that the media took it and ran with the negativity.
    So I hope this isn’t the case, but in a year from now, when you guys are sitting around on a Tuesday night, with no MLB daily fantasy or NBA to play, the error of your ways is going to smack you in the face like a brick.
    There are proper ways to constructively get the ball rolling on change….and then there is the way that a portion of you chose to go about it in this thread.

    Well Said

  • commandercoo1

    I’m withdrawing all my money on both sites and redepositing only the amount I want to bet each week.

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