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  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

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    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Today DraftKings took a huge step forward in clarifying what type of play is allowed/not allowed.

    Check out the Community Guidelines page here, complete with a clear design and examples.

    I had a call with DK on this just a couple of hours ago. They mentioned this is phase one of this page and they are open to adding to it as new situations arise. The thing that really stood out to me here is Lineup Selling. I did not see that one coming. With lineup selling being such a public endeavor it will also be one of the easiest ones to enforce. I think we’ll see that market dry up quickly, especially if Fanduel follows suit. I asked if they could give more clarity and communication on specific punishments – they feel that would violate their privacy policy, so we probably won’t be seeing such announcements unless they change their policy. This forum will remain a place to bring potential issues to light, but there is also a direct department to report suspected abuse to now: GameIntegrity@DraftKings.com

    Let’s have a constructive conversation about these here. What do you think? Is there anything that should be added or clarified?

    Kudos to DraftKings for making this effort.

  • MRCOOKONUTS

    Anytime something potentially shady is going on that effects the integrity of DFS,any whistleblower needs to first enlighten the DFS public on RotoGrinders forum of these suspected violations,then send email to gameintegrity@DraftKings.com
    First” let this issue be brought to the attention of the DFS community,and then send an email out to DK.This way by first notifying the DFS community of these potential violators,better chance that the issue wont get swept under the rug..We dont want this new department at DK to be used as a place to hide these issues from the public.I applaud DK for being pro active on this,but any investigations have to be resolved with the utmost of integrity..
    Continue to first voice your grievances here, and then take it to the next level..

  • thorpedoboom

    I agree mphst18 should be given some sort of glorified hall monitor badge in their profile. I don’t know if I could sleep at night without them protecting me from what I don’t quite know yet. I play for entertainment and to win money. As long as no one is changing lineups after lock, I don’t care how other people construct their lineups. Like others have said about lineup sharing. I rather beat one shared lineup than have to beat multiple individual lineups. Everybody has a right to voice whatever opinion they have on here and I do find a lot of posts about these topics entertaining.

  • coachwood

    @stlcardinals84 said...

    I don’t understand what your end game is. You say actions speak louder than words, yet all you do is the latter yourself.

    If you aren’t happy with DraftKings, just don’t play there. It’s pretty clear that you are never going to be happy with their decisions. I, for one, am growing very tired of your constant whining.

    This almost sounds like “buy better lineups.”

  • EadesScience

    @gundacker said...

    The only part that really confuses me is that it’s illegal to buy a human’s lineup but perfectly legal to buy a computer’s lineup? (Optimizer).

    This is a really good point. Look at the other night for example when RG ran the free roll for at least 100 lineups being entered from the Lineup Builder. I just went in and generated my 100+ lineups without any original choices on my part. I entered them in the contest. One of my scores of 162.35 was duplicated 4 times. That is not very much I realize, but how do you differentiate people on an optimizer and those buying a lineup? Isn’t it all the same thing?

    Ricky

  • tooltime

    @EadesScience said...

    but how do you differentiate people on an optimizer and those buying a lineup? Isn’t it all the same thing?

    Maybe if you pay for the optimizer lineup.

    I think a optimizer (like the one here) should not just give out a lineup without some user input.

  • psualum

    I think this is a noble endeavor but in practice its going to be nearly impossible to actually do anything about, except in the most blatantly obvious situations.

  • davidkyle

    @mccoolio said...

    Who is to say DK can’t get in the pockets of some of these sellers and get data for who subscribes to those types of services and match it up with their own to ban the offenders? This is good news.

    That’s how Google would find sites that sold links for the purpose of gaming search results. However, I think the chance for a false positive is possible this way. I think they’d have to wait for an account to play these lineups x times over y period of time before acting on it.

  • deactivated51600

    I think DK hired Roger Goodell to create these guidelines for them

  • tooltime

    @psualum said...

    I think this is a noble endeavor but in practice its going to be nearly impossible to actually do anything about, except in the most blatantly obvious situations.

    They really only need to do something about the blatantly obvious ones, these are the ones that made the problem. No one really said such until every cash game had 5 teams of 10+ people playing bought lineups.

  • chess_is_ok

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    there is no difference between selling lineups and selling projections.

  • bwnoles

    • 718

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    @chess_is_ok said...

    there is no difference between selling lineups and selling projections.

    Projections and models are one thing. Selling an exact lineup is entirely another.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    A couple of the unacceptable behaviors:

    -Any use of pre-built lineups purchased from 3rd party websites or engaging in the sale of such lineups.

    -Example A: You and 2 of your friends build a lineup together each night and then all play and enter the same contests using an identical team.

    Does the term ‘purchased’ exempt sites like ESPN, CBS, etc. Personally, I’m much more concerned about mainstream media posting their lineups. Due to content sites, roster construction, and the nature of a sport like the NFL and NBA, many people will invariably land on the same guys and sometimes, have the exact same rosters. How will that be handled? It seems like there’s an awful lot of gray with the guidelines and as a result, enforcement seems like it will be arbitrary.

    In recent years, DK and just about every site realized that creating overlap is better for their bottom line. They do this by promoting content sites via third parties and/or create one in-house. This inevitably leads to more overlap and a more desirable economic flow among the players. Count me among those that consider lineup sharing/tools to simply be lineup selling in disguise. The difference is merely perception. To sum it up, I feel like DK wants us to have very similar lineups, just not the exact same lineups…because you know, that looks bad.

  • tjabchs6

    Unless DK actually plans on buying subscriptions to lineup sellers (lol), there will be no way to tell the difference between a purchased lineup and an optimized lineup from sites like RG, Rotowire, etc.

    Some of you probably think – “Oh, well just go in there and write down the optimized lineup at 6:50pm ET and check for that one.”

    Problem is, what if they’re constantly changing their projections – as they should be? Everyone before 5:00pm ET could have one lineup, 5:00-6:00pm ET could have another, and 6:00-7:00pm ET could have another. That could lead to 3 different but fairly popular lineups in a GPP during the first few weeks of NBA. Same with NFL, if the optimizer site adjusts their projections early Sunday morning.

    Even if DK is checking for large amounts of identical lineups, the big lineup sellers have fairly easy ways to prevent their customers from all entering into the same contests – especially for NBA and NFL. In fact, it’s actually really easy.

  • glennantz

    This could go on and on and on.
    If you purchase Draftkings incentives on RotoGrinders and use the Algorithm Projected Lineup, are you buying a lineup from a 3ed party?

  • tjabchs6

    If anything, DK finds one or two cases of the most obvious lineup-buying possible (after they buy a subscription in the first place), and they make those particular lineup buyers an example. That would probably do the trick. But lineup sellers wouldn’t have a hard time preventing that from happening, if they tell their customers the right thing.

    And if that happens, DK goes down a very slippery slope trying to find who is buying lineups and who is not. I mean, let’s say DK eventually starts indefinitely suspending accounts. If one of them happens to be an innocent person with several thousand bucks, what are the chances that person brings a lawsuit against DK? You think DK is willing to take on more legal fees just to police lineup selling?

  • awesemo

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      2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    I think the guidelines are a reasonable step to clarify some issues regarding so called “syndicate play.” The root of the problem is slightly different from my perspective though. When every contest has a uniform pricing structure and salary cap, it makes it too easy for someone to make a lineup or 150 for someone else. I don’t see the change stopping anybody from doing what they are doing; only becoming more sneaky about it. Perhaps that’s the intent; if the lineups aren’t exactly the same in double ups, maybe the optics will be better.

    Salary cap is a great way to have a competitive GPP because each player has a disincentive to use the same lineup as someone else. Unfortunately for a double up, it doesn’t matter a lot whether you use the same lineup as someone else. For these contests, I believe another format of play where your choices depend on those of your opponents would be more fair. Possible formats could be a snake draft or auction. These may make it more difficult for high volume players to participate, but I think they would be a lot more fun and fix some of the problems we have been encountering.

  • Hatorade

    Porn 'Stache --- FanDuel Sunday Million (1st for $200,000)

    • 2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2013 StarStreet NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    It seems to me that people selling lineups now could just drop 1 selection from the lineup they’re selling and be in line with the guidelines. If they are selling DK football lineups, they could just post their optimal lineup and just remove say a Defense or Flex. They provide a little blurb next to the 8 players they’ve provided discussing the quality of that selection and at that point they are selling approved content and not lineups.

  • bigloser11

    Also would DK police all contests ie 25 cents or probably look at the higher buy-ins.If there was some minimum level( ie not police under 3 $ buy), then the
    cheating could continue at lower levels.A program could be run I guess but enforcement gets tricky if there is cheating at different levels.jm

  • bigloser11

    Just to clarify—is a 3.00 $ buy in a ‘‘felony’‘ same as a 200 $ buy in?jm

  • Hoosier02

    @chess_is_ok said...

    there is no difference between selling lineups and selling projections.

    I have to agree with this. I don’t see how there is any difference between buying a single lineup vs buying full blown projections, especially with a lineup generator that gives you access to thousands of lineups. The RG contest a few days back where 100k people joined using their lineups is a perfect example. From a logistics stand point the bat paired with the lineup builder is no different from rotoradar other than you have to click submit to generate your lineup. If rotoradar just changes their system to say click here for the optimal lineup of the day like the bat does. Now it’s ok? I think they may want to go back to the drawing board on this rule.

  • catmando

    If we all pay for a optimizer site and use the optimal wiil that site be put out of business? Explain how?

    How about the shady stuff sites have done in years past or allowed their so called consultants to do? Now after millions won or lost they want to help us?

    Will husband and wife teams or top player A and Top player B be allowed to still have same teams each night?

    chance is about 0 they will do anything that will affect their top $$ players…EVER

  • troveur

    Well if they can’t give SPECIFIC information on punishments for violations then how about a general statement regarding punishments to whomever when they occur especially when they are very public violations that we have seen so often lately. If the public can’t actually TRUST that they will do the right thing then this is all just meaningless lip service. Nobody that isn’t a shill or part of the problem can actually say they trust that DK has been focused on game integrity and the players’ best interest yet.

    Nice statements, pretty guidelines page, but ultimately all meaningless unless they actually do what they say which they have NEVER done before. Time to put up or shut up.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    @Hoosier02 said...

    From a logistics stand point the bat paired with the lineup builder is no different from rotoradar other than you have to click submit to generate your lineup. If rotoradar just changes their system to say click here for the optimal lineup of the day like the bat does. Now it’s ok? I think they may want to go back to the drawing board on this rule.

    The difference is perception and of course, research! (sarcasm)

    Singling out lineup sellers is like picking on the little guys. Compared to content sites, lineup sellers are small potatoes. I’m just utterly confused by this new stance.

  • catmando

    If i have a friend send me a team and i agree to pay him if it hits is that a buyer and seller?

  • Mphst18

    So here is the vagueness you get when asking the dk group if 2 players entering identical lineups night after night in H2H would be deemed as a violation of what they listed as example a.

    Example A: You and 2 of your friends build a lineup together each night and then all play and enter the same contests using an identical team.

    “That would depend on the specific situation at the time. It would also depend on the results of an investigation, should we deem that necessary.”

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