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  • punisheresz

    Since the introduction of interleague soccer contests on draftkings, I’ve been playing pretty much every slate and i came to the conclusion that for short slates 3 to 4 games the margins are extremely thin. Specially in cash where everybody has the same lineup pretty much with the exception of one or two players. For me that’s due to the scoring system being limited to crosses and goals. Every team has two full back one set pieces taker and one goal scorer so in a slate of two or three games choices are limited and it will come down to the punt winger or midfielder who gets an assist…
    I love interleague and I’m very optimistic about dfs soccer and i hope draftkings do something about that, they simply need to expand the scoring system and bring center backs and defensive midfielders to play.
    Fanduel scoring is not perfect either and they can sharpen things in defensive scoring but they have many more ways to craft a wining lineup.
    I’m sure many other draftkings regulars have their opinion about the scoring system and I’m also sure that we all want the sport to grow and the best way to do so is to give feedbacks and thoughts.

  • Yeoman

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    Again, this is FANTASY sports. The scoring does not have to align with “value” on the field.

    We expect them to correlate to some extent—we give positive points for positive contributions, negative points for negative contributions, and that didn’t evolve by accident. To me, giving points for crosses regardless of whether they reach their target is a bit like giving points to hitters for fly balls that reach the outfield.

    If complaints like this come from soccer fans more than any other sport, I think that’s because soccer has the scoring system with the worst correlation between contribution and DFS score. Which in turn is probably because the guys running the sites don’t know soccer all that well and just threw this together.

  • Yeoman

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    But how many times do teams control possession and still lose the match because they fail to ever put forth a strong attack and then give up goals on the counterattack?

    That’s a good point. The current system seems to me to have been devised by a fan of traditional English-style bomb-it-up-the-wings. The counterproposal seems intended to reward Spanish tiki-taka. There are other valid approaches to the game, too, and I think it would be nice to have a system that wasn’t oriented towards one particular style of play.

  • SelfCharmer

    Chance created reflects a good passing game, simply rewarding a completed pass does not. Some sites already have this stat but it is for such a small value that it just builds a tiny floor into most players.

  • KindGuy

    There are always going to be complaints; you can’t please everyone, that’s just a fact of life. I honestly think the current scoring makes the games very enjoyable to watch. If passes completed were to be completed, I’d have to be glued to the tv literally every single second. I think the scoring is fine as is since events are usually spread apart pretty reasonably.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @Yeoman said...

    We expect them to correlate to some extent—we give positive points for positive contributions, negative points for negative contributions, and that didn’t evolve by accident. To me, giving points for crosses regardless of whether they reach their target is a bit like giving points to hitters for fly balls that reach the outfield.

    If complaints like this come from soccer fans more than any other sport, I think that’s because soccer has the scoring system with the worst correlation between contribution and DFS score. Which in turn is probably because the guys running the sites don’t know soccer all that well and just threw this together.

    Obviously they should correlate some. I guess my biggest thing with crosses is what is “accurate?” Does it have to be touched by his own teammate first? To me sometimes a guy makes a great cross but the defender does a great job of holding off the striker/offensive player and is able to clear the ball. Or sometimes the striker may not time his run right and the cross does not reach its target. But to me, those crosses are still positive actions.

    I think it’s kind of similar to those that say points per reception should not be worth a point in the NFL because it may be a 1 or 2 yard catch or even a catch that loses yards (not a positive action). But my response is just that PPR is more fun (and also predictable due to targets which adds to the skill). I think crosses are the most predictable fantasy point floor we have in soccer right now.

    The scoring for soccer has changed several times already though and has been around for 3 years. I don’t think consistently trying to change the scoring system is a good thing. At the end of the day, I guess everyone has different opinions on this. I like things the way they are as the game is skillful but also a lot of fun. But some people may not agree.

  • Garrincha67

    @Stewburtx8 said...

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, getting any type of significant points for successful passes would ruin DFS soccer. It’s just not a fun stat to follow and while you may see one or several successful passes, you are going to have no idea how many the guy you picked has in total by watching the game (which could end up being 60+). Knocking the ball around across the backline should not be worth points. You absolutely can see crosses during the game or shots off target. Are sometimes those crosses completely inaccurate or a senseless shot taken? Sure. But in general, crossing the ball into the box provides an opportunity to score goals. Taking shots (over time some end up on target or can be deflected on target) result in the opportunity to score goals. They are easy to see while watching a game.

    Yes, possession is important. But how many times do teams control possession and still lose the match because they fail to ever put forth a strong attack and then give up goals on the counterattack? Again, this is FANTASY sports. The scoring does not have to align with “value” on the field. I feel like soccer fans (mostly from Europe) fight this more than any other sport. I do not see people complaining because offensive lineman in American football do not score fantasy points. Out of an 11 person offense, only 6 guys at a time can score fantasy points in the NFL. Yet offensive lineman are one of the most important units on the offense (if not the most important). If the offensive line fails, the offense fails. Same often goes for the midfield in soccer. But that does not mean that central/defensive midfielders have to score the same points as wingers and forwards in this fantasy game we play. Just my opinion. But the scoring has to align with value on the field argument drives me crazy. Just keep it simple. The current model WORKS.

    Also, most casual fans in Europe are not playing DFS but it has nothing to do with the scoring system. It has to do with the fact they can so easily bet on games and get their “gambling” fix.

    I have played all the different DFS sports and have no issue learning about how the scoring works for each sport. Yes, hockey has a similar scoring to football. But what I find odd is the argument passes do not count and should not be scored. But any random crosses should be scored. Imagine rushing in NFL was not counted, would that make sense to NFL fans ? Actually football can grow massive as a DFS sport with all the different leagues around the world playing it all year long plus big global tournaments in the summer every two years.

  • old_T

    • 2016 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    @Garrincha67 said...

    Imagine rushing in NFL was not counted, would that make sense to NFL fans ?

    But in order for NFL rushing to be a viable comparison to passes completed, we’d have to be giving negative points for passing it backwards towards one’s own goal.

  • old_T

    • 2016 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    @Yeoman said...

    Which in turn is probably because the guys running the sites don’t know soccer all that well and just threw this together.

    Maybe somewhat, but these people also have some experience with how to set up a scoring system for DFS so that the sport grows. They also already drastically changed the scoring system at DK after sending out surveys to players to find out what might work better. Even if you want to assume they just threw it together in the first place, that assumption doesn’t hold much weight currently.

    Sure there is room for improvement, as there probably is with the scoring for every DFS sport, but no matter what scoring system is used, there will always be legitimate arguments to be made that whichever system could be changed to better reflect player performance on the pitch. A balance must be found in each DFS sport, and said balance is very subjective.

  • old_T

    • 2016 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    @Garrincha67 said...

    You want to make the game appeal to a broad range of people, then score it properly as it is played on the pitch. It is that simple.

    This is pretty idealistic. Do you really have any idea if it’s that simple? Do you have data or personal experience running and growing a DFS site?

    Not to mention that “properly as it is played on the pitch” is completely subjective.

  • MHDU2424

    • 462

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #78

      RG Tiered Ranking

    Soccer scoring on DK is pretty straight forward and is very easy to follow while watching the match which is a huge plus

    Sure some tweaks here and there could be OK but it’s a very good product as is IMO

  • qsczserrrr010

    Here are some changes I’d like to see.

    1. Increase clean sheet points to 6.
    2. One point for an assisted shot on goal.
    3. A half point for an assisted shot not on goal.
    4. A 5 point bonus to the player that picks up the most tackles and interceptions in a game.

  • milanman21

    @Bigo1 said...

    My only issue with removing the Win is that it takes away the only reliable part of the GK scoring. That would make the position even more volatile (not good). Having said that, it would be perfectly fine to remove if saves/goals conceded were worth +/- 1 only

    Last season I rarely went with the most expensive goalkeeper on the slate. Paid down to a smaller favorite. Clean sheets are hard to count on (unless Buffon is on the roster) so if you pick a goalkeeper at 6000 that is heaviest favorite the risk is that you may only have a 3 point (or even 1 point) floor with the current scoring. I like the scoring as it is and the way it’s set up for goalkeepers forces you to exercise game theory. If you’re paying top dollar for the biggest favorite gk, you’re confident that they come away with the win, clean sheet, and maybe a save or two. Buffon is the only goalkeeper that I’ll spend that salary on. Smaller favorites (like Pickford on Saturday who I was 100% on) could have a better ceiling and such would give you more points per dollar.

  • ATL_Gunner

    If I could make a change on DK, I’d make crosses worth .5 with and additional .5 for accurate crosses – OR I would add a key pass/chances created scoring.

    I feel like DK is pretty good otherwise. I just really dislike that a hopeful cross that lands essentially anywhere in the box is valued the same as a cross that actually finds someone.

  • Yeoman

    @ATL_Gunner said...

    If I could make a change on DK, I’d make crosses worth .5 with and additional .5 for accurate crosses – OR I would add a key pass/chances created scoring.

    I’d prefer the latter—I don’t know why good balls into the box should only count if they come from the flank. In general I guess I have a preference for systems that don’t heavily favor a particular style of play, though I guess in practice that’s hard to do. Soccer favors wide play, basketball and football favor up-tempo offense, baseball favors the long ball.

    It’s a bit off topic since they’re using the same scoring system, but any reactions to DK’s “pick ‘em” games? I’m disinterested and a bit worried they’ll take entries away from the regular slates, looking at the $3 EPL games for Saturday and hoping the relative sizes are just a promotional one-off.

  • punisheresz

    Chances created are a much better stat for dfs compared to crosses, almost all fantasy soccer sites reward chances created or at least successful crosses. I don’t get why DK insist on making random crosses as their main stat to look for.
    I’ve noticed that they also count an attempt to cross! exemple when a player deliberately kick the ball knowing that he will never get the cross through just so the ball hits the defender and he wins a corner kick!
    For me that’s absurd, a successful cross is usually a chance created as it leads to a shot more often than not, so if they replace crosses with chances created, wide players are going to still have value plus you bring in creative player into play the likes of Silva, Ozil who i think is becoming useless now that xhaka is on corners!!
    I know they want to keep it simple to new players and that’s great but i don’t think counting crosses instead of chances created is any simpler. Plus if they want to appeal to new audience from the UK they have to at least make the scoring somewhat close to what people are used to.

  • FightingLikeBeavers

    @punisheresz said...

    Chances created are a much better stat for dfs compared to crosses, almost all fantasy soccer sites reward chances created or at least successful crosses. I don’t get why DK insist on making random crosses as their main stat to look for.
    I’ve noticed that they also count an attempt to cross! exemple when a player deliberately kick the ball knowing that he will never get the cross through just so the ball hits the defender and he wins a corner kick!
    For me that’s absurd, a successful cross is usually a chance created as it leads to a shot more often than not, so if they replace crosses with chances created, wide players are going to still have value plus you bring in creative player into play the likes of Silva, Ozil who i think is becoming useless now that xhaka is on corners!!
    I know they want to keep it simple to new players and that’s great but i don’t think counting crosses instead of chances created is any simpler. Plus if they want to appeal to new audience from the UK they have to at least make the scoring somewhat close to what people are used to.

    Agree with everything here but I think the reason DK are keen to have crosses in there is so that there is more regular scoring. Makes it more interesting to sweat in their view I think. Crossing a lot is typically a bad tactic so it is a bit annoying that we have to focus on it so much for DFS, though, and it would be nice to see chances created added even if they keep crosses.

    The main thing I would like to see is more incentive to pay all the way up at GK. Something like a single goal allowed bonus might do it. Atm the top GK usually get 10-14 with win + clean sheet or 2-5 without a clean sheet.

  • Rasmus

    @ATL_Gunner said...

    If I could make a change on DK, I’d make crosses worth .5 with and additional .5 for accurate crosses – OR I would add a key pass/chances created scoring.

    I feel like DK is pretty good otherwise. I just really dislike that a hopeful cross that lands essentially anywhere in the box is valued the same as a cross that actually finds someone.

    Agree.
    Also I would like to have the interruption stat +0.5 which would make fullbacks and defensive midfielder useful picks.

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