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  • misfit

    http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/14945921/draftkings-bails-fantasyhub-covering-outstanding-debts-players-charities

    Moderation Note: We feel this news is so big it needed its own thread. You can read the other thread for details about the issue.

  • WhiskeyTavon4

    • 953

      RG Overall Ranking

    • x2

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Can we also put to rest the false notion that a site handing out decent sized bonuses would somehow have a hand in their financial destruction. In order to ever touch any of that bonus money a user would be paying 6% in fees upfront if you go by the standard 10% rake and 4% drip rate. Sites actually make money when players roll through large bonuses provided they manage their contests in a prudent and relatively conservative manner.

  • tvsfrink

    Did you play NHL? There was decent overlay every single night until a month or so prior to the end, when they reduced the field sizes and killed the quarter arcade.

  • WhiskeyTavon4

    • 953

      RG Overall Ranking

    • x2

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    No I did not. I meant sports and contests that had actually had a market and could dent a sites financials. NHL doesnt count

  • tvsfrink

    They also were handing out free entries to their NBA and NFL contests like water at a sub shop.

  • tvsfrink

    @WhiskeyTavon4 said...

    NHL doesnt count

    Them’s fightin’ words. :p

  • cAUmberlandtiger8

    @dude_abides7 said...

    Let me try and help you out here. You rob a bank and get caught, but by the time you are caught you have spent all the money. I come in and pay the bank back, to the dime, what you stole.

    Does this mean that you did not commit an offense worthy of some type of legal punishment?

    DK playing the role of ‘white knight’ does not change the legal implications IMO as it relates to Plappert and the gang.

    There are civil laws and there are criminal laws. The act of robbing a back is a crime itself even if you dont take any money. The government will bring criminal chargers against you for “bank robbery”. The bank will also bring separate civil charges against you to recover the money you stole. However, these trials will be separate. People are blending civil and criminal laws to come up with what should happen to FH. There is no doubt FH is guilty of horrible business practices. Now the question that remains is whether they broke laws that are classified as criminal in addition to the civil laws they most certainly broke.

    You dont go to jail for taking out a credit card and racking up around 50k in debt that you cant pay off. You file bankruptcy. FH members dont go to jail for just awful business practices. They would have had to break a criminal law. FH, however can be sued civilly by those who were damaged.

  • Keith3101

    • 2015 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @dude_abides7 said...

    Let me try and help you out here. You rob a bank and get caught, but by the time you are caught you have spent all the money. I come in and pay the bank back, to the dime, what you stole.

    Does this mean that you did not commit an offense worthy of some type of legal punishment?

    DK playing the role of ‘white knight’ does not change the legal implications IMO as it relates to Plappert and the gang.

    I totally agree with you. I only added that because I can’t point to the exact law they broke. My point is, even if these guys didn’t take a salary (they did) and the missing player funds were only used for operating expenses, they still stole everyone’s money.

  • Agent47

    I never played at FH, but I was following that thread for the past couple of weeks hoping that the people impacted by this issue would get their money back somehow both because it was rightfully theirs and because the last thing DFS needed was another black eye. Well done, DK, on making all the FH players whole when they were under no obligation to do so. The FH players get their money back, and DK gets some new customers / money plus all the goodwill and good PR that comes from this deal. DK is where I got started playing DFS, and it’s where I spend the vast majority of my DFS dollars. And I feel even better about that after finding out this news. Way to go, DK!

    All that being said, I still hope that the dirtbags at FH that were responsible for this mess to begin with get their comeuppance in the form of jail time or whatever and hopefully sooner rather than later.

  • mberkowi

    • 2018 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    @tvsfrink said...

    Did you play NHL? There was decent overlay every single night until a month or so prior to the end, when they reduced the field sizes and killed the quarter arcade.

    This isn’t true. I was probably the highest volume NHL player FH ever had. Definitely top 3. There were some “bad” days that FH had maybe gave away a couple hundred dollars from contests not filing. There was a remarkable number of last second entrants, but I’ll leave that to the tinfoil hat wearers to opine on.

    There were at least 3 times that “guaranteed” games were canceled late in the afternoon when there was very little activity.

  • kidace1

    I played there daily for almost a year straight, and saw alot of overlay in more than one sport. Many times I entered a $25 guaranteed 5 man and there was only 2 or sometimes 3 of us at close. Obviously that was a bad sign but hard to step away from something with those odds in your favor.

  • tvsfrink

    “This isn’t true.”

    Which part isn’t true? I’ll admit I was a low stakes player so I didn’t pay attention to the higher dollar contests, but the lower stakes contests failed to fill quite often. Maybe it wasn’t enough to make a dent financially, I don’t know, but the quarter arcade was more like a double up cash line because it never filled to even 80%. I’m sure that’s why they removed it. The 50 cent GPP often ended up paying 43 out of 60 or 70 entrants. The $1 and $2 double ups almost never filled, even near the end. They were something like 25 entrants with the top 11 paid, and every night they filled to maybe 19 or 20 at most. Some nights they were 16 or 17.

    Perhaps it made zero difference to the topic at hand because the volume was too low to matter, but I take issue with you saying my statement about overlay existing on NHL every night isn’t true. I played every night and it absolutely happened. I actually tracked it for a while to be able to focus on where to best use my last minute money choices.

  • Ravenfan

    Without consequences for those scumbags, this will happen again and again until it destroys the industry. Those obnoxious rich daddy’s boys don’t care about anyone except themselves. Until they are in jail, this is a loss for all DFS players

  • jimmyrad

    @WhiskeyTavon4 said...

    Can we also put to rest the false notion that a site handing out decent sized bonuses would somehow have a hand in their financial destruction. In order to ever touch any of that bonus money a user would be paying 6% in fees upfront if you go by the standard 10% rake and 4% drip rate. Sites actually make money when players roll through large bonuses provided they manage their contests in a prudent and relatively conservative manner.

    Amen

    Also, overlay isn’t necessarily a sign of impending doom either. At the start of last football season Stars was running a weekly $100K that overlayed $20K+ a week the first few weeks. So what did they do starting week 4 or 5? Bump it up to a $150K, more overlay. What did they do week 6? Bump it up to a $200K, more overlay. It was a marketing device, and a very good one imo. My guess is that they would have continued down the same path all season if not for numbnuts-gate. They offered very generous bonuses too btw.

    At any rate it certainly wasn’t a ploy to raise fast cash to stay afloat, or outright rip off customers. they didn’t need it.

  • carney259

    • 216

      RG Overall Ranking

    @tvsfrink said...

    I guess that’s one of my ultimate questions, is this against the law or only something they shouldn’t have done? You said “typically” but does it apply in this case? Which law prevents it? Did they have something in the TOS that allowed it? Would it even protect them if they did? I don’t know. I agree it was wrong, I just don’t know if it was illegal.

    Well, this is why I had the caveat in my earlier post that you quoted indicating that I did not know if FH ever made any representations that they kept player accounts segregated. For better or worse, DFS is not regulated like banks, law firms, investment advisors, or even landlords. In all of those sectors, and probably others I can’t think of at the moment, you are not allowed to use funds that you are holding on deposit for a purpose not authorized by the depositor. I am an attorney and the first rule of ethics that all attorneys learn is you can never use client funds for operating or personal purposes. If a client pays a retainer for future legal work, you cannot use that money until you actually perform the work. If I were to take $100 of client money that I hadn’t earned yet, put it to personal use and then put it back the next day, if caught I would probably be disbarred for life and possibly charged criminally.

    I am not aware of any law that prevents DFS sites from doing so. However, the federal wire fraud statute turns on false pretenses, representations or promises. So I suspect that if they ever made any representation that they keep player funds segregated from operating funds, and then failed to do so, the operators of the site could be prosecuted federally for wire fraud, in addition to any similar state laws that might apply.

  • filmcritic

    I stayed quiet on this while the other thread blew up as I kept hoping for the best. Well the “save” by Draft Kings is awesome. I was one of the 20% of FH players that DIDN’T have an account on DK so I’m new money for them.

    I’m an idiot that didn’t deposit and withdraw and thus I had a fairly good chunk of money there. And I was on every day – top on their “Streak” numbers etc…. So even though DC and others insinuated I was an idiot…I played there for nearly a year and just started in DFS slightly before that…I NEVER thought the problem that occurred would happen with all the relationships Kurt Warner, Michael Carter-Williams, Isaac Bruce, and more PLUS a RG endorsement, FSTA seal and so much more. I’ve learned…and will be transferring money in and out of sites MUCH more frequently.

    While I’m extremely grateful for getting the money I won there out…and that the American Heart Association will get the money I won after sharing my story about why I was playing for that charity in these forums, I will miss a couple things about the site and I have one last cruddy thing to overcome.

    1) I will miss the charity games during the NFL Season – they were small in nature, but allowed the chance to donate money to a charity and win special prizes for being top of the league – fortunate enough to win the FINAL tourney for the Isaac Bruce league and I DID receive my Autographed Jersey shortly after this ugliness started – however I never received my call (but that’s ok…)

    2) I will miss the bracket challenges that first got my attention to fantasy hub last year – came close in a couple of them…but no prizes from them.

    3) And there are other aspects that I will miss about that.

    BUT THE one truly cruddy thing that impacts only ME on the transfer – Last year I was able to win the NBA GPP at the end of the season that was the big tourney. The prize included cash (which did hit my acct.), a substantial payout for charity, and a supposed trip to this year’s NBA All-star Game. Well, that trip never came…after repeatedly asking them about it, the trip was never booked and by mid January after I broke my leg and having no contact from them regarding booking – I started an inquiry on whether we could reach an agreement on a payout for it or if I could transfer or try to take it (I didn’t believe I would be much up to it in the condition I was in.) I would tell you what the first part of the conversation was after pestering them since NFL started, but it would just incense some of you and it won’t get my trip or some kind of settlement. So now I wait, to see what to do…I have yet to COMPLETE my transfer of funds to DK as I don’t want to make that move if they still need to credit my account accordingly…but man….at least for me…the scenario isn’t over. Would love it if someone from DK or anyone could help me out here. Some of you may think it’s greedy, but it’s just as valuable to me as cash as it was a once in a lifetime type of thing and was looking forward to the short vacation with my wifey.

    Sorry to be so long winded but I’m a confused Happy / But still a bit frustrated by the Fantasy Hub situation.

  • wolfjb1

    For those wondering, the civil “law” that you could sue them for violating is the Federal Deceptive Trade Practices Act, or any state version of the same statute. Many, if not all, states have a similar statute with a few state specific tweaks in each state’s version. Here in Florida, it’s called the Florida Deceptive & Unfair Trade Practices Act.

  • Aalbanese102089

    I just got an email from my charity saying they received the check from DK this week. Good to see they handled it all quickly!

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