INDUSTRY FORUM

Comments

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    Our players have requested a single game format since we started. It is no secret that once we launched Showdown during NBA All Star Weekend, this game type has quickly grown in popularity.

    Some customers have also requested an additional strategy component, that is why we’ve been working to develop a new Showdown variant.

    We would like to invite you to play our private beta contest, Showdown: Captain Mode for tomorrow’s Golden State vs. New Orleans playoff game.

    The key feature of Showdown: Captain Mode is the addition of the Captain position, which costs 1.5x the salary but also earns 1.5x points. The addition of the Captain position in your roster will increase possible lineup combinations while also adding this new element of strategy.

    Here’s what you should know:

    • Private $5 entry, $10K prize pool Contest (link)
    • Rules & Scoring (link)
      • Rosters will include one (1) Captain and (5) Utility
      • Captain salaries will cost 1.5X, but you also earn 1.5X in fantasy points
      • Scoring is the same as existing/classic Showdown

    We will follow up with players for feedback after the beta contest is complete, or drop us a note here in this thread.

    Have fun playing Captain Mode RotoGrinders!

    - Steven & Christie, DK Community Team

  • sutogame

    Fanduel is already doing this and there the 100K top prize was split so many ways that first place for $91.

    Can you please stop sabotaging the MLB gpp prize pools so you can have these meaningless 300 way ties for NBA.

    It is a waste of time.

    Min Cash less then a double up payout!!!!

    Terrible

    Thanks

  • edro990

  • sutogame

    @edro990 said...

    FRIDAY MLB 15 GAME SLATE $8 ENTRY 25K First Place
    FRIDAY NBA 2 GAME SLATE $10 Entry 100K First Place

    You are totally sabotaging the MLB season for these small NBA game slates.

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

    • 615

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    I feel like the 1.5X spot with 1.5X salary could solve some of the tie problems. The issue with the FanDuel version is there is no salary change for captain….there should be greater strategy in who to use in that spot now & increase the number of viable lineups.

    I’m not the biggest fan of Showdown style games either, but fact remains they are not going anywhere….so I’m happy to see DK try to innovate the game style a bit and try to solve the tie issues. I guess we’ll see how it works .

  • superjon

    @db730 said...

    I feel like the 1.5X spot with 1.5X salary could solve some of the tie problems. The issue with the FanDuel version is there is no salary change for captain….there should be greater strategy in who to use in that spot now & increase the number of viable lineups.

    I’m not the biggest fan of Showdown style games either, but fact remains they are not going anywhere….so I’m happy to see DK try to innovate the game style a bit and try to solve the tie issues. I guess we’ll see how it works .

    Cool story and all, but a bad idea is a bad idea.

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @superjon said...

    Cool story and all, but a bad idea is a bad idea.

    How bad could this format be for DK? They fill these contests every single night

  • Cameron

    RG Co-Founder

    • 979

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Survivor Champion

    • 2016 RG Season Long Champion: NFL

    Thanks for the quick turn around in releasing a new game type. I know that’s not easy to do so quickly.

    I’m looking forward to playing this hopefully improved format, and hope it reduces the number of ties. If not, I’m sure DK will keep improving as usual. — For me, Showdown has been a pleasant surprise, and fun way to play DFS casually and quickly.

  • theseige

    • 2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x2

      2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    The pricing looks super tough at first glance, not sure that was the design or if the salaries weren’t deflated to account for the new 1.5x player but am excited to try out this format

  • tmarohl

    @theseige said...

    The pricing looks super tough at first glance, not sure that was the design or if the salaries weren’t deflated to account for the new 1.5x player but am excited to try out this format

    Seems like you almost have to punt the captain slot in order to build decent lineups.

  • radthad954

    2013 PFBC Finalist, 2013 PFFC Finalist, 2013 PBC Finalist

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    I agree with Dan. The added layer of strategy should make a big difference. I’m definitely interested.

  • YoungFischer

    I think a FantasyAces (RIP) salary pro style contest would work really well for these showdown slates. For those who don’t know, it was a flex cap game. You could go over or under the salary cap and be penalized/rewarded bonus points for doing so. Combine that with the Captain Mode and I think you actually have a pretty compelling product for a single game.

  • Cameron

    RG Co-Founder

    • 979

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Survivor Champion

    • 2016 RG Season Long Champion: NFL

    ^ I like that idea YoungFischer ^

    Also, one note I have, although I don’t know how viable it is, is finding a way to make non-starters more valuable. I love digging into the weeds on guys like Zaza and JaVale, trying to find a rotational pattern, or some value at the $1k price tag, however it doesn’t seem to be enough that they are just cheap (except for that day Alec Burks went off for the Jazz).

    I might be reaching here, but “Minutes off the Bench” might be a fun stat to add that:

    A) adds value to bench players, and
    B) differentiates final results

  • kwdamp

    @theseige said...

    The pricing looks super tough at first glance, not sure that was the design or if the salaries weren’t deflated to account for the new 1.5x player but am excited to try out this format

    This is exactly what I was thinking. I’m curious to see the results, but I’m not so sure you won’t actually REDUCE the number of unique lineups given that there are only so many combinations you can fit in while paying for someone attractive @ 1.5x. Especially during the playoffs.

    I know you don’t want to make these things overly complicated but what if you had this game type, but it was:
    1 captain at 1.5x, 4 utility players, and one bench player at 1/2x.

    Then you’d still have the same amount of salary to “spend” but the options would be exponentially larger for creating unique lineups. Just a thought.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    @Cameron said...

    Thanks for the quick turn around in releasing a new game type. I know that’s not easy to do so quickly.

    I’m looking forward to playing this hopefully improved format, and hope it reduces the number of ties. If not, I’m sure DK will keep improving as usual. — For me, Showdown has been a pleasant surprise, and fun way to play DFS casually and quickly.

    > I’m not the biggest fan of Showdown style games either, but fact remains they are not going anywhere….so I’m happy to see DK try to innovate the game style a bit and try to solve the tie issues. I guess we’ll see how it works
    there should be greater strategy in who to use in that spot now & increase the number of viable lineups.

    Precisely! Great insight! Captain Mode’s 1.5x pricing adds an extra element of skill that coincidentally reduces the probability of ties.

    > They fill these contests every single night

    Truth.

    DraftKings is a data driven company that makes future decisions based on the past entry choices of the market (the players). The information gained from the direction the market is quantitative, but we also factor in the qualitative opinions of our players because we aim to be a platform that provides options for all players.

    Single game contests are what the majority of players want. We understand that some players prefer classic multi-game formats rather than single game, and that’s ok. We also hear that some of the active players on RotoGrinders are frustrated that MLB has not gained the traction that they hoped for at the beginning of the season. This is a factor of NBA and NHL experiencing some of its greatest interest to date. We are beginning to see an increase in MLB over the past week that will help us provide more desirable contests options soon. MLB is not being ignored by us, we LOVE baseball, in time as players refocus their attention from NBA and NHL we expect to see a big spike in MLB focus once again.

    PS: Tonight’s Showdown: Captain Mode beta is a commission free contest to encourage the vital feedback our game managers need.

    Such great value for a 2k seat $5 contest with a $10k prize pool featuring a new single game variant without commissions. This is your chance to be one of the first people in the world to play DraftKings’ Showdown: Captain Mode contests!

    PPS: Please remember to share your feedback in this thread. Thnx!

  • lpdev

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    Single game contests are what the majority of players want. We understand that some players prefer classic multi-game formats rather than single game, and that’s ok.

    I think in general most of the people on the forums here enjoy the multi-game formats better. But we are a subset of the total DFS population that enjoys the challenge of digging through data for all games and having the extra opportunity to excel that a large player pool provides.

    It’s important to realize that there are other more casual players that probably prefer the singe game contests. It’s much simpler/less time consuming to research a single game. You can build lineups around your favorite team. In multi-game contests being biased toward your favorite team is a bad thing. I can easily see how this format appeals to the more casual player. I think adding ways to diversify your single game lineup is a good idea that improves this mode of play.

    There is no reason both formats can’t coexist. Finding ways to appeal to a wider audience keeps more people involved in DFS that may have otherwise moved on because they find it too time consuming or difficult. I’m for anything that helps keep more people playing DFS on a daily basis.

  • KindGuy

    Just curious: what exactly makes this an “exclusive” contest? I see this contest link was also posted on DK’s twitter feed and tabbed as an exclusive “social media only contest”.

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

    • 615

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    First bit of feedback from the sweat experience. I would have Ownership % for the Captain Spot & then ownership % for all other. Currently it shows cumulative ownership %‘s and it would be nice to see who the popular captains picks are.

  • mdumblewski

    • 506

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #15

      RG Tiered Ranking

    How do the Ties look right now?

  • mes21

    Not a big fan of this format.

  • kwdamp

    Looks like the top 3 spots are a tie. And quite a few more in the top 20 are ties.

    Love that you’re trying new things, but like several of us mentioned above: I’m afraid having to pick someone at 1.5 times the price may very will restrict the number of unique entries. This will become more obvious in tournaments where there are only a handful of players you’d consider for the captain spot.

  • zombiekopitar

    I liked it a lot.
    There was more strategy to employ and I did way better than I’ve ever done with regular showdown….those contests are very dissatisfying and I have little desire to play.
    I would continue to play these for sure, it will help reduce duplicate lineups by a decent margin.

  • mdumblewski

    • 506

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #15

      RG Tiered Ranking

    The thing you will see is the casual player doesn’t understand Negative EV yet. I have recently started playing NASCAR this season and am blown away at the ties, but I don’t see the top guys calling for a format change. If the contest keeps filling it won’t matter. I do think its good DK is looking for ways to improve this!

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

    • 615

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    I’m much more in favor of the 1.5X version than standard. It will NEVER be perfect in preventing ties with a limited number of players to choose from, but the top 4 lineups all had different players in the captain spot which I find interesting.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    Awesome ideas from Cameron and YoungFischer. I agree there are things we can do to make single-game more strategic. Keep ideas coming and we’ll go back to the drawing board (for all team sports).

    @kwdamp totally valid speculation. We run a script to find “reasonable lineup permutations” where “reasonable” means lineups between $49k-$50k AND only with players >2% owned. We sub $2k+ for >2% owned when we have no ownership data (bc we haven’t run the game publicly yet).

    Anyway, showdown with our Captain results in 6x more reasonable lineups than standard Showdown. Fwiw, I believe your intuition is accurate with a standard captain where you don’t have to pay more salary.

    - DK Community, Guest Post on behalf of Mark N

  • rannas23

    DK thank you for trying to bring an added element to help with these small slates and showdowns to deal with ties. I still think though, the contests are way overloaded in field size with these types of contests. For example, I’m looking at the Cle and Tor showdown. Can we not half that contests size and make two contests…the fewer the field the less likely of drowning in ties across the board. Also when its a short slate or showdown, can the multi entry not be dropped to 100, this would affect the ties too and how many different lineups that a person could be generated.

    Also for gpp multi entry guaranteed strictly, there should be more options. I look at the showdown Cle and Tor and it goes from one contest of $100k total prizes and the next one is $12.5k total prizes with a $1k to first. Can we not have some stuff in between $20, $25, $33 contests with say around 2k-4k field size contests….with reasonable multi entry limits?

    I see the extreme in tonights 2 game NBA slate….100k to first in a huge field size with only 2 games being played. That should be $50k to 1st with a lower field size with the limited players to choose to help reduce ties. I like the $44 with 662 field size (although a little more than what I want to pay for multientry)…can we not have similar contests to these also…with the lower field size and decent payouts at first in these short slates. Again like $20, $25, $33 contests with around 2k-4k field size contests. If your afraid they won’t fill and you will lose money on these types of contests…just make them non guaranteed and they have to fill to be active. You have enough high rollers to multi entry to fill multiple types of contests like this. It just seems it goes from one extreme to the other in these field sizes.

    Again the 100k to fist in the 2 game is like 27%…..it needs to be lowered and allocated to the rest of the field. Statistically, you have more different people winning in the top 100 than say different people winning that one top spot on a weekly basis. That means the more these other 99 people could get or win, the more they could possibly reinvest in your product and more customer activity in your contests.

    Also, could you please think about an option for MMA, like a bench player that could be used if a fight is canceled. Maybe up the salary cap to include an extra roster spot where 7 fighters are picked but the top 6 get scores. That way if a fight is canceled and gets a zero it nullifies its results.

    Thanks again for listening to all our ideas and venting.

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