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  • Jackandsoda

    2011 FFFC Finalist, 2011 DFBC Finalist, 2012 DSBC Finalist (x2), 2013 DSBC Finalist (x2)

    • 2011 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2011 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Expert LUs

    First, let me go on record as saying i never like the way the expert line-ups were being used. However, i think removing them from rotogrinders is not going to solve anything. Obviously, there is amarket for this kind of thing and someone will come along sooner rather than later to fill the void. The sites need to address the issue of LU sharing themselves and punish the players. The ganging up in 50/50s has gotten out of hand. To me it is no diff than 7 guys entering the same room on poker stars and telling each other there hole cards. The fact that the sites would allow this kind of behavior only makes daily players question their trustability. The cut and pasting of a generic LU by anyone should be aggressivily fought. The owners of the site need to find a way to track and end any and all LU sharing if they want the industry to continue to grow.

  • Socrdave

    2013 DFBC Finalist

    • 2013 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    I don’t think there is an efficient way to police this… and I’m not so sure sites would want to put the man hours in to investigating/handling every customer service request that mentions a dual lineup.

    I’m not saying I agree or don’t agree with expert LUs, but that the legislation of such an endeavor is probably not practical for sites.

    Plus, if RotoGrinders isn’t giving away expert lineups and no other big players are giving away their LUs, I’m not so sure that people copying mom&pop blog’s lineup is a bad thing for the rest of us.

    Just my .02.

  • ehafner

    • 2015 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

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    • Ranked #14

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    • $1M Prize Winner

    Can you post some examples? I’m curious to see who-done-it. I’ve played a lot of games and I haven’t been able to spot a group of cheaters yet.

  • agendaman

    /

    there are guys selling lineups every day you receive them via e-mail you cant regulate touts

  • Jackandsoda

    2011 FFFC Finalist, 2011 DFBC Finalist, 2012 DSBC Finalist (x2), 2013 DSBC Finalist (x2)

    • 2011 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2011 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    The first and most famous was the nwo. This was before 50-50 days. I only play GPPs so honestly I hope peeps put in the same LU. However, I see 50-50s in which ten guys have the same LU which is either collusion or multi-accounting. It is not a matter of want for the sites. It is a matter of need. This has only just started. It will get worse. Keep in mind this is entertainment. No one likes to think they are being taken advantage of. The fact that these players would do this must mean they feel it gives them an unfair edge.We are past our infantile stages. The sites need to start finding solutions. It’s too hard or it’s not worth our time will not be acceptable answer much longer. I’m in this’s game for the long haul. I’m just trying too let you guys know LU sharing of all types is a problem that could really hurt the industry if left unattended. The sites know the big culprits. I hear it in chat about all the time. In a way, notorious did us all a favor. He showed us how it shut down the functionality of the game. Do not think that others have not taken notice. There is always that person who wants to destroy something for the simple sake of doing it. You guys have access to past contest. If you see guys entering all the same contest with all the same LUs send them all a warning. If they continue to do it ban them from play. You might not think it is that important but I’m telling you it is.

  • barro

    I agree with Jack it is only going to get worse.

    There are now a number of pay for sites solely devoted to posting point projections, lineups and get this projections of what % of entries will have certain players.

    I’m not sure why people will trust these sites over ESPN or YAhoo that project stats for free but it will only increase similar lineups. Players no longer need to do the analysis if these sites are legit players will just need to plug and play value

  • Buffalo66

    @Jackandsoda said:

    The sites need to address the issue of LU sharing themselves and punish the players.

    The sites would just be punishing themselves by reducing the amount of rake they take in.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    I certainly don’t view LU sharing as cheating, but it’s an extremely big turn-off. As it’s been pointed out, I’m not sure how practical it would be to even enforce a no-LU sharing policy. Also, I don’t think DFS is big enough to where sites can pick and choose their customers that again, are NOT cheating.

  • bobbyrogers46

    @kaetorade said…

    I certainly don’t view LU sharing as cheating, but it’s an extremely big turn-off. As it’s been pointed out, I’m not sure how practical it would be to even enforce a no-LU sharing policy. Also, I don’t think DFS is big enough to where sites can pick and choose their customers that again, are NOT cheating.

    We get into these talks of these games being legal or just a slip into a new law which was intended for season long leagues but, if the courts got word on things such the same lineup being used in a 50/50 I wonder how they would also react to it?

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

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    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

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    I am pretty sure the court would say it is not against the law.

  • Jackandsoda

    2011 FFFC Finalist, 2011 DFBC Finalist, 2012 DSBC Finalist (x2), 2013 DSBC Finalist (x2)

    • 2011 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2011 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    its not about if it is against the law. It should be against the rules. Daily fantasy is a game. It is not illegal to grab a ball with your hands in the real world but it is against the rules of soccer. Simply put, this is a perversion of the game that should not be allowed.

  • AveryBradley

    @Jackandsoda said…

    its not about if it is against the law. It should be against the rules. Daily fantasy is a game. It is not illegal to grab a ball with your hands in the real world but it is against the rules of soccer. Simply put, this is a perversion of the game that should not be allowed.

    No offense J&S, but when EHafner asked for you to provide an example and your best 1 was from a year ago I think you are overstating things a bit. I play on FD everynight and I don’t see much of same LU in NBA at all. I really don’t.

  • briguy13

    @Jackandsoda said…

    its not about if it is against the law. It should be against the rules. Daily fantasy is a game. It is not illegal to grab a ball with your hands in the real world but it is against the rules of soccer. Simply put, this is a perversion of the game that should not be allowed.

    Yeah, but it’s 100% impossible to enforce.

  • Markness

    DraftKings Team

    At DS we take this issue seriously. As Kaetorade pointed out, it is not necessarily “cheating” and certainly should not be compared to sharing hole cards in a poker game, but it is a turn-off to other users and more importantly, it negates the single-entry limit which is in place to ensure variety of opponents.
    As mentioned on another chain, we do have some ideas for how to curb this should it becomes a larger issue. Currently it is usually just 2 or 3 friends using the same lineup, which is not irrelevant, but also not detrimental to the growth of the industry right now. When we saw that it was more than just 2 or 3 lineups (when 6 or 7 were using the RG expert lineup) we felt the best solution was to make a new policy for affiliates providing exact lineups. This seems to have accomplished a short-term solution to a potential issue of seeing many identical rosters site-wide. Down the road I could see other policies being necessary regarding identical rosters.

  • Sprizouse

    Touting will always be a threat to DFS

  • Markness

    DraftKings Team

    The difference with touting in DFS vs touting in sportsbetting is that it’s much more obvious and traceable in DFS. To see two users with identical rosters multiple times is much less likely to be a coincidence than for two people to be on the same side of a bet at a sportsbook.
    I think there could be some sort of system where if you have the same roster as another user more than once in a certain time period you could be labeled as a “team” and therefore not able to enter any of the same leagues. This could result in users being labeled as a “team” even if they don’t know each other if they are acquiring a lineup from the same source, but that would certainly deter users from using a lineup they did not create. I think something along these lines could do a pretty good job of preventing the sharing of exact lineups. It would just take some time/resources to implement.

  • Jackandsoda

    2011 FFFC Finalist, 2011 DFBC Finalist, 2012 DSBC Finalist (x2), 2013 DSBC Finalist (x2)

    • 2011 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2011 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    OMG why are we doing this already? brillant

  • Markness

    DraftKings Team

    It will take some time to implement and honestly it hasn’t been a huge issue (sans the RG expert lineup for a brief moment). If 2 friends use the same roster in a 100man dbl up it’s not ideal, but it’s not really compromising the validity of the game.
    Basically, if/when the time comes that it’s needed, we’ll prioritize this and implement something we think will be effective.

  • AveryBradley

    @Markness said…

    It will take some time to implement and honestly it hasn’t been a huge issue (sans the RG expert lineup for a brief moment). If 2 friends use the same roster in a 100man dbl up it’s not ideal, but it’s not really compromising the validity of the game.
    Basically, if/when the time comes that it’s needed, we’ll prioritize this and implement something we think will be effective.

    Like I said earlier in the thread, I am on FD every night and I don’t see this nearly as much as J&S is claiming besides the RG expert LUs for a brief period.

  • barro

    @Markness said…

    The difference with touting in DFS vs touting in sportsbetting is that it’s much more obvious and traceable in DFS. To see two users with identical rosters multiple times is much less likely to be a coincidence than for two people to be on the same side of a bet at a sportsbook.
    I think there could be some sort of system where if you have the same roster as another user more than once in a certain time period you could be labeled as a “team” and therefore not able to enter any of the same leagues. This could result in users being labeled as a “team” even if they don’t know each other if they are acquiring a lineup from the same source, but that would certainly deter users from using a lineup they did not create. I think something along these lines could do a pretty good job of preventing the sharing of exact lineups. It would just take some time/resources to implement.

    GOod idea but i think its going to get tough for you with all these sites not ‘selling’ LUs.
    I’m refraining from posting the site names because I dont want to give them any more exposure.
    But maybe sites like DS should just block those LUs.

  • pokerrob1970

    DraftDay BLB Finalist

    I think people need to chill out a little. I have not scene this issue at all in hockey (yes a few of us play that) and i just don’t see how this will be an issue at all in Baseball. Basketball is the only real problem as the metrics are apparently very predictable (not that i would know). I guess its the in thing to bitch about this week but lets see where we are 2 months into MLB.

  • reifjc

    I have no idea if this is lineup sharing, I rarely look at scoreboard specifics but there was a 17 way tie for 2nd in the Slam:

    https://www.fanduel.com/entry/HAHJUQ

  • cjstetzer

    unreal..this happens on 2 and 3 game nights..just never seen quite that many ties

  • Ethan

    DraftKings Rep

    That’s more likely a 3-game day and a very popular roster that hit exactly $60K being used. looks like it was almost all westbrook, thomas, kobe, thornton, dorell, durant, thaddeus, thompson, hawes

    all those guys were common picks tnite

  • FantasyTime69

    @reifjc said…

    I have no idea if this is lineup sharing, I rarely look at scoreboard specifics but there was a 17 way tie for 2nd in the Slam:

    https://www.fanduel.com/entry/HAHJUQ

    Yeah I think a night like this has got to be a big sign to fanduel they need to change their roster salary/roster cap size to 100k. This would never happen on draftstreet or starstreet where the rosters/salary cap is so deep and flexible. Nothing worse than matches ending in a tie. And I know it happens a ton on fanduel.

  • naapstermaan

    Panda Grinder

    • 2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2012 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @reifjc said…

    I have no idea if this is lineup sharing, I rarely look at scoreboard specifics but there was a 17 way tie for 2nd in the Slam:

    https://www.fanduel.com/entry/HAHJUQ

    lol that was like an evil swarm of bees flying back and forth all night. pretty funny.

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