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Fan Throwdown-

Can anyone report on the payouts? Withdrew my money last night. Are people getting paid?

Not yet, buddy.

FTD chat has disappeared

Live Support is still up and running but they are extremely vague in addressing payout concerns. Consider me worried.

@WhiskeyTavon4 said…

Live Support is still up and running but they are extremely vague in addressing payout concerns. Consider me worried.

I have a feeling they are having an old fashioned run on the bank situation. I guess we’ll learn if they keep player funds in a segregated account or not.

@agendaman said…

FTD chat has disappeared

Brit has closed his twitter page as well.

Not trying to be an alarmist but if this site doesnt start paying people today not only will they be done as a business but they will do massive harm to the entire industry. RG promoted them, they are seemingly owned by a publicly traded company and they are handling large amounts of grinders money. Please get your act together FTD

@WhiskeyTavon4 said…

Not trying to be an alarmist but if this site doesnt start paying people today not only will they be done as a business but they will do massive harm to the entire industry. RG promoted them, they are seemingly owned by a publicly traded company and they are handling large amounts of grinders money. Please get your act together FTD

Honestly, I think payments are probably being slowed by the fact that they are having to switch reporting methods for the second time in 2 days. Most likely they had identified people who they needed tax forms from (everyone). Now that they switched reporting methods they need to figure out who they still need a forms from.

I would also guess they are backlogged on withdraws due to the large volume caused by yetserday. Not to mention the fact they probably have thousands of email to answer.

The fact that they are a publicly traded company means that stockholders are much more likely to lose money than players. The amounts held in player accounst are considered a liability and would have to be paid in a bankruptcy before any stockholders. Also I believe yesterday they were just sayin that they recently raised $9 Million. I wouldn’t be worried about player funds right now. The bigger question is whether or not FTD will survive and still be around 6 months from now.

Not paid yet, granted it’s only $16.99 from some old FSL affiliate stuff. Only requested it early yesterday morning. Instructions say 48 hours or next business day, so we’ll see I guess.

@sethayates said…

Honestly, I think payments are probably being slowed by the fact that they are having to switch reporting methods for the second time in 2 days. Most likely they had identified people who they needed tax forms from (everyone). Now that they switched reporting methods they need to figure out who they still need a forms from.

I would also guess they are backlogged on withdraws due to the large volume caused by yetserday. Not to mention the fact they probably have thousands of email to answer.

The fact that they are a publicly traded company means that stockholders are much more likely to lose money than players. The amounts held in player accounst are considered a liability and would have to be paid in a bankruptcy before any stockholders. Also I believe yesterday they were just sayin that they recently raised $9 Million. I wouldn’t be worried about player funds right now. The bigger question is whether or not FTD will survive and still be around 6 months from now.

Seth- This news makes me feel better. I will report as soon as the money hits my paypal and if anybody else gets paid please post in this thread as soon as it happens.

@stlcardinals84 said…

Brit has closed his twitter page as well.

Hopefully he quit and stopped drinking the FTD cool aid.

Yesterday he was claiming the site maintenance was planned in advance…makes perfect sense to do site maintenance mid afternoon on a Thursday and change the ToS during the maintenance.

@sethayates, they didn’t really raise that capital, they simply changed their share structure and created $8.5mm worth of ‘new’ shares to dump on the open market. They are simply diluting existing shareholders and using them like an ATM. No entity actually bought in to the business, it’s simply a situation of creating shares out of thin air and selling them to suckers. Who knows where that raised money actually goes or what it’s used for.

They should be selling the shares in the $2.50 range, which is why the stock seems to be pinned close to that price right now. The stock will likely stay at that price until the entire $8.5m is dumped on the public.

I don’t exactly remember how many shares they started with a year ago, but best I can remember it was in the 5-7mm range. This latest transaction should increase the total shares outstanding to around 10-12mm. This is a big part of why the stock is down 50+%.

This doesn’t benefit the company. Whereas six months ago there were say 7mm shares outstanding at $5 each for a $35mm market cap, now there could be 12mm shares outstanding at $2.50 for a $30mm market cap. While it looks like they raised 8.5mm, they really didn’t because the company isn’t worth anymore. It’s actually possible that the total market cap of the company is LESS now than before the ‘capital raise’.

Here’s the latest filing on that: http://secfilings.nasdaq.com/filingFrameset.asp?FileName=0001144204-13-069569%2Etxt&FilePath=%5C2013%5C12%5C30%5C&CoName=MGT+CAPITAL+INVESTMENTS+INC&FormType=8-K&RcvdDate=12%2F30%2F2013&pdf=

Hey Guys,

sethayates is right on the money. We are a little behind as our withdrawal department has been obviously undergoing some pretty big changes in the past few days. First we began instituting this new policy and had to halt pending withdrawals to verify the proper documentation for gross winnings first, and now we are reversing it to net and largely have to start all over.

We have been continuing to issue payouts the entire time, but the process has certainly slowed down a bit during this.

I can assure you that we will be making payouts today and we will get caught up on all of our pending withdrawals as soon as humanly possible.

We apologize for the delay, and we will get everyone handled as timely as we possibly can.

thanks for responding Bob..all we want is to be informed..the silence tends to aggravate folks to the nth degree..we all want to see the industry flourish..hope everything gets worked out for you guys.

NOT saying their not going to pay out. I believe they will. But to bring this thing full circle- This is why I believe the proper tax formula should be (Withdrawals – Deposits)…
We have seen DFS sites go down and players have a tough time collecting(sportsgeek,draftzone,profanity).
Contest winnings – entry fees etc doesn’t protect you against a site going down in flames and not paying you and thus you’ve been taxed on money you’ll never see.

Like I said, I think they pay because they seem like they have the finances to do so, but moving forward I would hope sites would all come together and adopt the Withdrawals minus Deposits method of taxing. Money out minus Money in.

110% on the money…

I have no doubt they’ll pay given they’re a public company. However, no matter what assurances are given, to me this isn’t closed until after the 1099 filing deadline and we see who gets 1099’s and what the amount is on them.

Money out vs. money in seems to be a complete no brainer considering the options and the precedent set by the leaders in the industry which is what makes this entire FTD situation somewhat interesting and a little scary. Either they have the most incompetent tax people in the world or the most incompetent management to ever put out a statement about gross winnings. The third option is even more concerning and that involves shady bookkeeping. I just want all grinders including myself to get paid as quickly as possible and for communication to continue from FTD on this forum. If they payout everyone and have no complaints with their payouts over the next two weeks I would go back to playing there and I am sure others would as well.

@BobFTD said…

Hey Guys,

First we began instituting this new policy and had to halt pending withdrawals to verify the proper documentation for gross winnings first, and now we are reversing it to net and largely have to start all over.

This shouldn’t have ever been an issue.

Instituting a “new policy” before even changing your terms of service to reflect that policy and without telling your users…. well, it’s garbage and going to be very hard for the site to recover from. I really don’t think it’s possible at this point.

I feel bad for you guys that have been subjected to the incompetent management of MGT and presumably some others that are higher up in the FTD food chain. Unfortunately guys like you and Brit have had to feel the wrath of it. Brit did the smart thing. Good luck in whatever happens going forward.

@stlcardinals84 said…

This shouldn’t have ever been an issue.

Instituting a “new policy” before even changing your terms of service to reflect that policy and without telling your users…. well, it’s garbage and going to be very hard for the site to recover from. I really don’t think it’s possible at this point.

I feel bad for you guys that have been subjected to the incompetent management of MGT and presumably some others that are higher up in the FTD food chain. Unfortunately guys like you and Brit have had to feel the wrath of it. Brit did the smart thing. Good luck in whatever happens going forward.

cooler heads will …….

@WhiskeyTavon4 said…

Money out vs. money in seems to be a complete no brainer considering the options and the precedent set by the leaders in the industry which is what makes this entire FTD situation somewhat interesting and a little scary. Either they have the most incompetent tax people in the world or the most incompetent management to ever put out a statement about gross winnings. The third option is even more concerning and that would involves shady bookkeeping. I just want all grinders including myself to get paid as quickly as possible and for communication to continue from FTD on this forum. If they payout everyone and have no complaints with their payouts over the next two weeks I would go back to playing there and I am sure others would as well.

Chop’s argument actually does not correspond with the precedent from the leaders in the industry.

He’s saying withdrawals less deposits (net withdrawal method).

The other big sites use withdrawals less deposits plus ending balance minus beginning balance (net winnings method).

Chop agrees with Option 1, FD and DK use option 2.

FTD tried to use Option 3, which everyone agreed was stupid (gross winnings). There’s grey area in between option 1 and option 2.

Just clarifying…

@stlcardinals84 said…

Chop’s argument actually does not correspond with the precedent from the leaders in the industry.

He’s saying withdrawals less deposits (net withdrawal method).

The other big sites use withdrawals less deposits plus ending balance minus beginning balance (net winnings method).

Chop agrees with Option 1, FD and DK use option 2.

FTD tried to use Option 3, which everyone agreed was stupid (gross winnings). There’s grey area in between option 1 and option 2.

Just clarifying…

I understand. Sorry for muddying the waters on that front. I also really dont think FTD is going to die a slow death as long as they payout quickly and business goes back to usual.

@headChopper said…

NOT saying their not going to pay out. I believe they will. But to bring this thing full circle- This is why I believe the proper tax formula should be (Withdrawals – Deposits)…
We have seen DFS sites go down and players have a tough time collecting(sportsgeek,draftzone,profanity).
Contest winnings – entry fees etc doesn’t protect you against a site going down in flames and not paying you and thus you’ve been taxed on money you’ll never see.

Like I said, I think they pay because they seem like they have the finances to do so, but moving forward I would hope sites would all come together and adopt the Withdrawals minus Deposits method of taxing. Money out minus Money in.

Would love to see this method adopted by all sites as well. If I have a year end balance that is included in this year’s tax liability, and continue to build on that balance all next year, I’ll be taxed on my year end balance twice.

Including my account balance seems like a sloppy/shady, possibly illegal way to get that cash of the site’s books.

To make it ultra simple, I would like to see sites move to “credits” vs “dollars” to enter games. Deposit, get credits to play, cash out credits for hard cash. (Could also increase a players average daily buy-ins, playing with credits vs dollars is like playing with tokens at the arcade, easier to blow than actual cash) Plus the government can’t tax “Draft King Credits”

I agree headchopper.

@stlcardinals84 said…

Chop’s argument actually does not correspond with the precedent from the leaders in the industry.

He’s saying withdrawals less deposits (net withdrawal method).

The other big sites use withdrawals less deposits plus ending balance minus beginning balance (net winnings method).

Chop agrees with Option 1, FD and DK use option 2.

FTD tried to use Option 3, which everyone agreed was stupid (gross winnings). There’s grey area in between option 1 and option 2.

Just clarifying…

Option 3 is what the now defunct snapdraft site used in figuring players winnings. In the tax info that they sent out they included this statement.

Pursuant to IRS code section 6041, Snapdraft is required to file a report to the IRS whenever aggregate payments made to a player reach $600 for the calendar year. The IRS requires that we report taxable income as Contest Winnings less Cash entry fees associated with contests won. The IRS requires that we report this amount as “Other Income” on your 1099 form.

Please Note the IRS specifically disallows us from reporting cash entry fees associated with contests lost. However, we are advised that you may be able to itemize those deductions yourself.

My withdrawal request from 1/7 made it to my account today after i spoke to live support and found I didn’t meet tax form requirements. Immediately after I withdrew the remainder of my funds and hope to get those next week.