NFL FORUM

Comments

  • pburghpens22

    Just noticed that the rake increased on FD again ! Last week the 200k $1 NFL Dive had 235,294 entries and this week it has 238,095 entries for the same prize pool. That’s 16% rake! I’m just wondering if rake is ever going to go back down and what would it take to do so? Also if rake keeps going up, how far up is it going to go and when is it going to be unplayable for most?

  • WidumBoise

    @FantasyDraftSupport said...

    We are currently talking with development about the H2H limiter that has been mentioned several times, but currently there is no immediate timeframe that I can provide to you.

    Could this somehow be escalated to a quicker timeframe? The NFL season is quite short, I would love to bring my action over as soon as conceivably possible.

  • mambaland

    @BagelBaron said...

    Does anyone know if the larger volume players are getting rakeback from the big sites? Would this be legal? Would it violate their terms of service? Could they be getting rakeback in the form of free entries or other indirect compensation? That would make it possible to maintain profitability for the larger volume players while maintaining high margins for the “entertainment-motivated” players.

    what your kidding right? i would hope they are or they are doing a poor job of getting what the guy next in line is getting…i wonder if they ever get matched in H2h or if that is some how fixed IE helped out by admin..no way on FD all those guys are not automatched at lock as i get them all

  • mambaland

    not a cheap shot but does every thread have to turn into a fantasy draft marketing thread? if so can they promise to never raise rake..ever or just long enough to get some disgruntled players from sites to leave

  • BagelBaron

    @mambaland said...

    what your kidding right? i would hope they are or they are doing a poor job of getting what the guy next in line is getting…i wonder if they ever get matched in H2h or if that is some how fixed IE helped out by admin..no way on FD all those guys are not automatched at lock as i get them all

    So why would we ever expect rake to go down? The best customers get a price that will keep them profitable and providing massive liquidity for the sites. Everyone else pays an ever increasing price to be the fish that the low-rake paying customers feed on until they get fed up or broke. Yeah, that sounds about right. Whether one considers it fair or unfair, the self-serving alliance between the big money pros and DK and FD continues and in the long run limits industry growth.

  • thehazyone

    RG Contributor

    • Blogger of the Month

    @w3stcoastoff3ns3 said...

    I started playing on Fantasy Draft last week and I really like it. Almost considering dropping DraftKings all together. Only thing that sucks is I signed up through RotoGrinders and still didnt get any premium content.

    contact support@rotogrinders.com – they’ll be able to help you.

  • xandamere

    @sox9 said...

    How many companies listed on Wall St. have a GUARANTEED annual ROI of near 15% w/no risk every single year? I can say w/near certainty you could count them on your fingers and toes. What you have here is oligopolistic pricing, coincident price increases (I won’t use the word collusive because I have no evidence) and by-an-large and uninformed and unprotected customer. State legislatures will eventually pick up on this, or simply start to allow regulated sports betting in their respective states. The latter would put a huge chill in the shorts of both FD and DK.

    Not defending the rake increase here – but this is just inaccurate. The rake is their gross margin, not their ROI, and plenty of companies have gross margins well over 15%. Keep in mind the rake doesn’t account for all of their costs – employees, offices, IT, marketing, etc. etc.

  • Taterchipdip

    Well for starters both FD and DK need to stop leaving the rake in the front yard for the big players to step on it.

  • 2Slik

    • Ranked #14

      RG Tiered Ranking

    I would argue that rake increases don’t make a considerable amount of users quit suddenly. What it will certainly do is cause less winners in the long run and accordingly turn more people off of playing consistently.

  • Cincinnatibuck

    Rake in Draftkings PGA offerings approaching 19%.

  • monaco712

    @mambaland said...

    not a cheap shot but does every thread have to turn into a fantasy draft marketing thread? if so can they promise to never raise rake..ever or just long enough to get some disgruntled players from sites to leave

    I think it is great that they are monitoring these forums and commenting
    when was the last time you saw DK/FD say anything. DK customer
    service just gives me a pre-scripted response every time I ask them a question.

  • yisman

    @Cincinnatibuck said...

    Rake in Draftkings PGA offerings approaching 19%.

    I don’t know what you’re talking about.

    I checked this week and the big contests have a rake of 15-16%, as with NFL, NBA, and MLB.

  • bigez952

    @yisman said...

    I don’t know what you’re talking about.

    I checked this week and the big contests have a rake of 15-16%, as with NFL, NBA, and MLB.

    He probably doesn’t know how to calculate rake and is taking (buy-in x # of entrants)-Prize Pool / Prize Pool which comes in around 19%. However the correct way to calculate rake is (buy in x # of entrants)-Prize Pool / (buy in x # of entrants).

    An example would be this week’s $4 Euro Fore tournament. There is a $10,000 prize pool and 2,972 entrants so using his math of (4 × 2,972) – 10,000 / 10,000 you get 18.8% when the correct way would be (4 × 2972) – 10,000 / (4 × 2972) = 15.8%

  • mambaland

    fanduel finally went over 15 and hit 16 percent tonight in nba and nhl. I have hit the withdraw

  • Roma315

    If rake keeps going up the DFS industry will die. You won’t get the casual players anymore. As winning becomes harder more players will stick to their friends season long fantasy sports leagues.

  • draped

    @Roma315 said...

    If rake keeps going up the DFS industry will die. You won’t get the casual players anymore. As winning becomes harder more players will stick to their friends season long fantasy sports leagues.

    This is not true. Maybe you have just been around rotogrinders for too long, but a LARGE number of players (who don’t put in much effort) play for the entertainment and know going in that their chances of making money are slim. I know a lot of friends that look at DFS as a way to pay a relatively small amount (

    EDIT: well my post got cut off bc I used a less than sign…..and I’m too lazy to re write it.

  • Taterchipdip

    Rake doesnt really matter to your average joe blow player. They know its very hard to make ANY money in DFS The reason I still play is BECAUSE its hard and a big challenge, plus I know if I did win then I could withdraw it easy.

  • Roma315

    @draped said...

    This is not true. Maybe you have just been around rotogrinders for too long, but a LARGE number of players (who don’t put in much effort) play for the entertainment and know going in that their chances of making money are slim. I know a lot of friends that look at DFS as a way to pay a relatively small amount (

    EDIT: well my post got cut off bc I used a less than sign…..and I’m too lazy to re write it.

    That’s true but those players are not the ones who put it the volume and the cash. Say a normal grinder plays $700-3000+ a week. They are sick of rake and stop. Then you have multiple grinders do it. Eventually the sites will drop the prize pools and the average joe won’t be interested anymore.

  • yisman

    https://twitter.com/itsBuckley/status/916139183990804480

  • eperson911

    I am enjoying FantasyDraft since trying it. I will LOVE if a H2H limiter is implemented. I haven’t played cash in a while, but rake free might make it worth it.

  • FantasyDraft_Rep

    • FantasyDraft Representative

    We are working on the limiter. No timeline just yet but will fill everyone in when I have more.

  • sammybaugh

    So I’ve been an RG member since 2013. This is the first time I’ve posted. I’m just a small stakes GPP guy myself but I just wanted to second what others have said here regarding the rake. I’m mostly a DK guy myself I do have an FD account but I rarely play over there so I’m mostly talking about DK here. Although I believe this by and large applies to FD as well. The first thing your average new DK player is going to do is look at those huge low dollar gpps which are not coincidentally the first contest listed and look at the huge top prize. What they won’t notice is just to what extent the rake as increased and how truly terrible the payout structures have become for those contests. There used to be a time where you could make a fairly reasonable lineup and at the very least double your entry fee. Now the min cash will give you a paltry $1 profit. Of course the reason you play GPPs is not to min cash but I really believe DK has gone out of there way here to ensure that they squeeze the average player bone dry with these ridiculously top heavy payout structures and all but guarantee that even if they do min cash they will all but certainly be forced to re-deposit when they lose their next contest. This rationale painfully coincides with their awful decision to exclude the Sunday Night game from the main slight in order to offer the truly insidious Sunday Night Spectacular. You all don’t need me to tell you how truly stupid the payout structure is for that contest and how much of a blatant money grab it is but in case you’re curious John Lee over on Football Guys did an excellent job summing it up. I believe what DK has done to truncate the slate sizes and further decrease the amount of options you have as a player is further illustrated by how they have managed to thoroughly destroy the Pick Em games. This weekend they’ve been reduced from 8 tiers to 6 and the main slate now only includes the 1PM games. Less options for the players is never a good thing. DFS will only continue to grow as long as they keep attracting new players and encouraging them to play. But doing so by preying on low dollar players and forcing them to re-deposit every weekend is not a good look. It’s pretty clear that we will soon be reaching the point of critical mass in terms of the amount of rake that DK has taxed the players with and the way they’ve gone out of their way to limit options. If you care even the slightest about the long term sustainability of DFS as a whole I think it would behoove everyone to at least consider boycotting DK this weekend. This only has a chance of getting any headway if the pros and heavy volume players choose to avoid DK but I really believe that its in everyone’s best interest here especially long term to at least make your opinions heard. We all know that NFL season is DK’s cash cow. This is as good a time as any to let DK know how we as players feel about it and now could be the perfect opportunity to take a knee this weekend.

  • hendog

    • 944

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    Re: payout structures, it’s weird. Some are too top-heavy, but others aren’t top-heavy enough. Look at the two biggest contests on FanDuel… The Sunday Million pays out 23% to first, and the Dive pays out 2.9% to first. Are they serious?? DK is actually better about this, most are around 10% to first.

    Really they should get rid of the lowest payout tier or two. The issue shouldn’t be how often you can make a small profit, it’s how often do you need a big win to make many buy-ins back. E.g. putting 150 lineups into the Sunday Million costs $1,050, which is more than you would get for 28th place. 28th place! If I get 28th place out of 370K lineups I would expect a big payday, not to barely make my money back.

    And yes, even if you’re not entering 150 lineups this is the logic you should use. The math is the same. The only difference is that it plays out over a longer timeframe.

    Also the rake sucks

  • mambaland

    @sammybaugh said...

    So I’ve been an RG member since 2013. This is the first time I’ve posted. I’m just a small stakes GPP guy myself but I just wanted to second what others have said here regarding the rake. I’m mostly a DK guy myself I do have an FD account but I rarely play over there so I’m mostly talking about DK here. Although I believe this by and large applies to FD as well. The first thing your average new DK player is going to do is look at those huge low dollar gpps which are not coincidentally the first contest listed and look at the huge top prize. What they won’t notice is just to what extent the rake as increased and how truly terrible the payout structures have become for those contests. There used to be a time where you could make a fairly reasonable lineup and at the very least double your entry fee. Now the min cash will give you a paltry $1 profit. Of course the reason you play GPPs is not to min cash but I really believe DK has gone out of there way here to ensure that they squeeze the average player bone dry with these ridiculously top heavy payout structures and all but guarantee that even if they do min cash they will all but certainly be forced to re-deposit when they lose their next contest. This rationale painfully coincides with their awful decision to exclude the Sunday Night game from the main slight in order to offer the truly insidious Sunday Night Spectacular. You all don’t need me to tell you how truly stupid the payout structure is for that contest and how much of a blatant money grab it is but in case you’re curious John Lee over on Football Guys did an excellent job summing it up. I believe what DK has done to truncate the slate sizes and further decrease the amount of options you have as a player is further illustrated by how they have managed to thoroughly destroy the Pick Em games. This weekend they’ve been reduced from 8 tiers to 6 and the main slate now only includes the 1PM games. Less options for the players is never a good thing. DFS will only continue to grow as long as they keep attracting new players and encouraging them to play. But doing so by preying on low dollar players and forcing them to re-deposit every weekend is not a good look. It’s pretty clear that we will soon be reaching the point of critical mass in terms of the amount of rake that DK has taxed the players with and the way they’ve gone out of their way to limit options. If you care even the slightest about the long term sustainability of DFS as a whole I think it would behoove everyone to at least consider boycotting DK this weekend. This only has a chance of getting any headway if the pros and heavy volume players choose to avoid DK but I really believe that its in everyone’s best interest here especially long term to at least make your opinions heard. We all know that NFL season is DK’s cash cow. This is as good a time as any to let DK know how we as players feel about it and now could be the perfect opportunity to take a knee this weekend.

    yea what he said…ditto

  • craftylefty

    • 662

      RG Overall Ranking

    Just wait until you get an email for DK or FD and they ask you to contact your local rep due to gov’t regulation.

  • mambaland

    i know people say this all the time..but i have played GPP daily for a few years in every sport..Today i did not play any as i refused to play over 15 percent rake and nfl..nhl are both higher than that for the ones i play..IE small dollar ones. Just an not do it. i am only one person but i feel like i have to be in the top half percentile of their customer profile…avg income…plays daily..several hundred bucks a day maybe more on weekends? No longer and i damn sure will not support if asked to contact any govt agency. I will do quite the opposite.

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