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  • Ryazan

    • 865

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      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

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    I ask this for a reason – I was up big at some point with MLB this past summer, and I hit the newly established deposit limit of 1K per month in MA. Good regulation, and if it was followed by Fanduel, I wouldn’t even post this. However, I was allowed to raise my deposit limit to 5K for providing “proof of income” by giving them my 2015 1099 form that stated my winnings from 2015, but that gave no proof of how badly I was doing in 2016. Fanduel also had on record how much I lost playing NBA for the first 3 months of 2016 (80% of my 2015 overall winnings, + what I owed for taxes for my 2015 winnings). Horrible management on my part, I know, that is not even up for discussion – I was completely horrible in that personal aspect.

    But it didn’t stop there – when I couldn’t win on a 5K monthly deposit limit, Fanduel permitted me to wire up to $30,000 straight from my bank account, seemingly completely ignoring the Massachusetts regulation of 1K per month (or 5K per month, if legally my 2015 winnings even matter as “proof of income”) – I did not have a high paying real job, in fact I was unemployed for a while, and I never gave them proof of anything other than my 2015 1099 winnings form (they were aware of all my 2016 losses after that).

    I pretty much withdrew 30K from my bank account in no time, and I seriously wonder, did Fanduel break Massachusetts regulations law by allowing me to do this?

    http://www.mass.gov/ago/consumer-resources/consumer-information/dfs/

    Limitations on Consumer Deposits: A DFSO shall not allow a DFS Consumer to deposit more than $1,000 in any calendar month, provided however that a DFSO may establish and Prominently Publish procedures for temporarily or permanently increasing a DFS Consumer’s deposit limit, at the request of the DFS Consumer, above $1,000 per calendar month.

    If established by a DFSO, such procedures shall include evaluation of information, including income or asset information, sufficient to establish that the player can afford losses that might result from gameplay at the deposit limit level requested.

    When a temporary or permanent deposit level limit increase is approved, the DFSO’s procedures shall provide for annual evaluation of information, including income or asset information, sufficient to establish a player’s financial ability to afford losses at the deposit limit level in place. Absent such evaluation, the temporary or permanent deposit level increase shall not be extended.

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    • Last Updated 8 months ago
  • mccoolio

    I mean…If you can deposit it, I assume the DFSOs think you can afford to lose it. That is basically what I’m reading from this. This was initiated at your request. That money was available for deposit, regardless of if you’re employed or not. I feel for you and your monetary losses, but this industry will take every cent it can get, especially without proper regulation enforcement in place. The states with all these different restrictions make things tougher to follow day-to-day. Circumventing deposit restrictions seems like no issue at all. I needed to reset my weekly deposit limit yesterday but regular support wouldn’t let me do so unless I sent in some documents. I was in a hurry and said fuck that, emailed VIP support and they did it for me, no questions asked in about .2 seconds. Am I curious as to how easy it was? Sure am. But I requested it and was able to deposit so the burden is on me in the end.

  • migarvin99

    If You gamble like that you lose…everyone can enjoy the high but forget the low is coming. Spending that kind of money is crazy. You used to criticize a lot of RG members so I don’t think you’ll be getting sympathy and support

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    • Last Updated 8 months ago
  • jilesofthetrees

    • 238

      RG Overall Ranking

      RG Overall Ranking

    Please seek help. It would be wise for you to withdraw everything you have on any DFS site and self exclude.

  • DoubleTime

    • 2016 King of Summer: August

      King of Summer: August

    Sounds like increasing the limit is not based solely on income… also asset information. Cash is an asset. Maybe you showing them $50K in the bank (or whatever it was) was enough, maybe that is within their procedures for increasing the limit?

    Of course this is all speculation. It sucks man, and I feel bad for you. But the limit is originally set at $1K, and then it sounds like it is entirely on the sites to set their procedures for increasing limits. It appears the law states they only need to have procedures in place. Maybe it has something to do with the crazy amount of volume you were playing as well? Many people regularly deposit/withdraw to not leave too much in their account, and it wouldn’t be possible to do that at high stakes without a high deposit limit. If I remember, you were max-entering $5300 Q’s and shit, maybe that has something to do with them increasing your limit.

  • DoubleTime

    • 2016 King of Summer: August

      King of Summer: August
    @jilesofthetrees said...

    Please seek help. It would be wise for you to withdraw everything you have on any DFS site and self exclude.

    And more importantly this^ The way you talked in the forum… you were not playing DFS like a normal person.

  • rpak1

    Ryazan –

    I think you should consider how a person with a neutral role in this situation would approach you and react to your requests.

    When you first requested an increase, you had lost 80% of your winnings plus taxes. I do not know how long you have been playing DFS on FanDuel, but I think most RG users can conclude your ability and your spending habits can be captured by your net winnings from the previous year.

    So even if you are at a negative, the fact they set you at $5K at a spending limit instead of, say $10K or even higher, shows you that is how much they think you could possibly afford to lose probably for the rest of the year, when most people would probably bow out.

    If we follow your timeline, that means $5,000/month for April – December would be about $40,000. Assuming your “I couldn’t make the $5K deposit limit work” is the 1-2 months it sounds like you tried it under, then you exhaust about $10,000 of that $40,000. You made a $30,000 deposit from your bank account. Again, based on your habits thus far, that sounds like the maximum they would let you deposit from your bank account because you have been depositing the maximum allowed to that point.

    Have you made more deposits after the $30,000? As other users have already said, I think you should withdraw what you can from all DFS sites and ask for self-exclusion. Think of all the better uses for that much money – the options you have within the stock market and its equivalents, other investments, quality of life expenses – let alone what you are risking if that money exceeds a reasonable parameter of your total savings. Your comments, posts, and actions in the past two years have been wrought with people telling you the same – to stop engaging in this risky management, yet you continued to do so. Please, please, please consider stopping!

  • madmanjayWV

    MONEY is not real people
    it’s FIAT
    GOOGLE IT^
    u might learn something — Federal Reserve 1913

    I don’t know enough about the law/statue to comment..but I’m going to look into it. Very interesting, but if the LAW states, the $1K thing is kinda like the first part of an interview …and u show promise (#COIN) — then they can do as they wish and up it …basically, allowing you to play and suck as you did……..or aka getting a 2nd/3rd interview..up to them….

    If they have/had that caveat in their pocket, FD is 100% in the clear? That’s the way I understand..hopefully the smart people will be on around the break of dawn and chime in their 2 cents…..interesting tho!

  • Ryazan

    • 865

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    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

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    This is absolutely not me looking for support or having people feep bad. I am simply asking if the law was broken. Fanduel allowed me to empty my bank account from 30k to 0 with wires even tho monthly deposit limit was 1k in MA

  • edro990

    If I’m reading you correctly, you are calling FD out for letting you make deposits that you feel broke the rules. Would you be taking this road if you doubled or tripled your money? Interesting………………

  • Roma315

    • 847

      RG Overall Ranking

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    • Ranked #64

      RG Tiered Ranking

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    Seems no laws were broken. In your original post it proves you can always raise the deposit limits.

  • jojo491048

    There is a self-exclusion button for people like you for a reason. Use it. Seek help if you don’t have the discipline to manage your finances better or control yourself.

    When you are risking such large sums of money, especially during periods of your life where you are unemployed (or maybe you are a full-time DFSer I don’t know), you are playing a very dangerous game. Do you have a significant other and/or kids to support?

    Sounds like you are struggling with an addiction, maybe you don’t even realize it. When various people are telling you the same thing, maybe there is some veracity to it…

    …but hey, it’s your life. GL

  • flip4flop

    I wouldn’t ask here, I would ask a lawyer at this point and then self exclude if its ever resolved in your favor.

  • crazypaul

    @Ryazan said...

    I am simply asking if the law was broken. Fanduel allowed me to empty my bank account from 30k to 0 with wires even tho monthly deposit limit was 1k in MA

    In your post you even quoted the regulation: “a DFSO may establish and Prominently Publish procedures for temporarily or permanently increasing a DFS Consumer’s deposit limit, at the request of the DFS Consumer, above $1,000 per calendar month.”

    It seems you requested to deposit more. They didnt force you to raise your deposit limit. You requested it, and based on your past success, they granted it. Not sure why you are here trying to stir something up when you clearly understand why they raised your limit and the legalities of doing so.

  • edro990

    @flip4flop said...

    I wouldn’t ask here, I would ask a lawyer at this point and then self exclude if its ever resolved in your favor.

    I don’t think there is anything to resolve. Based on the OPs account, FD operated under the rules established for allowing limit increases. I think the ultimate responsibility relies on the depositor to act in their own best interest.

  • Ryazan

    • 865

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    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

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    @crazypaul said...

    In your post you even quoted the regulation: “a DFSO may establish and Prominently Publish procedures for temporarily or permanently increasing a DFS Consumer’s deposit limit, at the request of the DFS Consumer, above $1,000 per calendar month.”

    It seems you requested to deposit more. They didnt force you to raise your deposit limit. You requested it, and based on your past success, they granted it. Not sure why you are here trying to stir something up when you clearly understand why they raised your limit and the legalities of doing so.

    My issue is that they went around the deposit limit altogether and just let me wire money from my bank (they let me do over 30k worth), no 1k or 5k limit. I just dont see how this doesnt go against the regulation that was put in place specifically to avoid situations like this. I had never established sufficient income or assets, a 1099 form showing 2015 winnings doesnt prove that i can afford to play that much in the present time, and they were well aware that i had lost most of my 2015 winnings

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    • Last Updated 8 months ago
  • Garpeters

    @Ryazan said...

    My issue is that they went around the deposit limit altogether and just let me wire money from my bank (they let me do over 30k worth), no 1k or 5k limit. I just dont see how this doesnt go against the regulation that was put in place specifically to avoid situations like this. I had never established sufficient income or assets, a 1099 form showing 2015 winnings doesnt prove that i can afford to play that much in the present time, and they were well aware that i had lost most of my 2015 winnings

    The real issue here is why you’re emptying your bank account to play DFS, when you’re unemployed and obviously losing at a high rate with terrible bank roll management. I would not blame Fanduel for this, I would take a look personally at how YOU could have prevented this from happening. Fanduel, or any company for that matter, should not be required to hand hold people who are terrible at money management. Yes, there are regulations in place to help people from mismanaging their money, but in the end you need to understand that it is not smart to be doing the things you did.

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    • Last Updated 8 months ago
  • frugal

    @Ryazan said...

    My issue is that they went around the deposit limit altogether and just let me wire money from my bank (they let me do over 30k worth), no 1k or 5k limit. I just dont see how this doesnt go against the regulation that was put in place specifically to avoid situations like this. I had never established sufficient income or assets, a 1099 form showing 2015 winnings doesnt prove that i can afford to play that much in the present time, and they were well aware that i had lost most of my 2015 winnings

    I agree with other’s here. Withdraw all your money, self exclude yourself, and get some help. Ultimately, you are the one who needs to take responsibility for your actions here.

  • jilesofthetrees

    • 238

      RG Overall Ranking

      RG Overall Ranking
    @Ryazan said...

    My issue is that they went around the deposit limit altogether and just let me wire money from my bank (they let me do over 30k worth), no 1k or 5k limit. I just dont see how this doesnt go against the regulation that was put in place specifically to avoid situations like this. I had never established sufficient income or assets, a 1099 form showing 2015 winnings doesnt prove that i can afford to play that much in the present time, and they were well aware that i had lost most of my 2015 winnings

    This isn’t support and I don’t feel bad. You’re chasing a ‘penny wise, pound foolish’ idea that presumably you think will be actionable somehow, or at least justify in your mind that whats happened to you was done unethically.
    That is all inconsequential.
    It doesn’t matter if this is an addiction for you, or if you just found your success so empowering that you couldn’t step back from DFS when it turned to failure. The story you’re telling is how families are ruined and homes are lost. You need to speak with someone.

  • crazypaul

    @Ryazan said...

    My issue is that they went around the deposit limit altogether and just let me wire money from my bank (they let me do over 30k worth), no 1k or 5k limit.

    These are YOUR words from the regulation: “…increasing a DFS Consumer’s deposit limit, at the request of the DFS Consumer, above $1,000 per calendar month.”

    No where does it say 5K is the limit for an increase. You asked for multiple deposit limit increases and the first they approved was 5K. Then you said in your own words “when I couldn’t win on a 5K monthly deposit limit, Fanduel permitted me to wire up to $30,000”

    So you asked for multiple deposit limit increases, and based on your 2015 tax information that YOU provided, they approved you for up to $30K. No matter how you spin it, they cannot predict your 2016 financial status mid year. They had to base it on your 2015 returns. Even with you’re reasoning that “they were aware of all my 2016 losses” does not mean they know your 2016 finances. You could be gainfully employed, winning money on other sites, a hedge-fund baby…who knows. They only had 2015 tax info to rely on and YOU initiated all of the increases.

    I think it’s time to take a serious look in the mirror and self-exclude.

  • Lathum

    All I read in your post is YOU made horrible financial decisions, likely addiction based, and now you want to blame the site instead of yourself.

    The only one responsible for you is you. It isn’t the sites responsibility to know how much you have lost and make sure you don’t get in over your head, and now that you are you want to blame them.

    I am certain you want to know if laws were broken because you have some hope of recouping those deposits. People like you really piss me off. Anti DFS legislators are going to point to people like you and try and use it to shut down the industry and screw those of us who can control ourselves instead of blaming others when we fuck up.

    You’re an addict dude, get some help.

  • IceDog

    another addict looking to blame someone else for his addiction….Get some help!!!!!

  • maxeernst

    NHL Contributor

    Not my legal opinion or anything, but…

    Seems the law is pretty vague / intentionally lends the DFSO latitude to increase a players limit if given some information.

    As your post indicates, a DFSO must “Prominently Publish procedures for temporarily or permanently increasing a DFS Consumer’s deposit limit”… so what does FD have published regarding this?

  • fjbourne

    • 55

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    Also being from Massachusetts, I’ve had to deal with fanduel deposit limits. They have strictly followed their guidelines with my limits (despite my frustrations). I was able to reverse a withdrawal in order to get a larger sum back onto the site. How did 30k get into your bank account in the first place? Did you withdraw via bank wire from FD? Perhaps they treated the deposit as a reversal of the withdrawal. Regardless, I don’t see any set deposit limits in the MA regulations besides the intitial 1k per month until verifying income information. It sounds like you sent in a 1099 with over 150k in income from FD alone for 2015. Based on that information a temporary deposit limit of 30k doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. Not sure why you would think this is not proof of income or why you think FD should be tracking your 2016 results daily/monthly when the regulations clearly call for an annual evaluation.

  • gaelicgirl

    That’s a sad story, Ryazan, but FD is not in business to protect you from your own bad judgment. Your state tried to protect you from losing too much too fast with a monthly deposit limit. But you didn’t want that protection, and asked FD to let you deposit more. Then you asked FD to let you deposit your entire bank account. How can you seriously blame them for breaking your state’s regulation when you asked them to break it twice?
    I remember when you were winning big in MLB a while back, before Nevada banned DFS and I had to quit playing. You seemed to think the key to winning was entering high stakes contests with small player pools. I remember you talking about maxing out your credit cards to play, and how many on this forum warned you that you were playing with fire. But you didn’t listen, and stubbornly insisted that you knew what you were doing. It would seem that you were never as skilled a player as you thought you were, and that your key to winning was an illusion brought on by a run of good luck.
    There were many warning signs along the road to your financial ruin, but you just blew right past them. I really do feel bad for you, but you have no one to blame but yourself. I hope you will learn from this experience, stop gambling, and go on to have a happy life. There’s a great big world out there to enjoy, and wonderful people to meet. Please write this DFS experience off as a bad chapter in your life, and move on. Best wishes to you.
    P.S. I’m living in California now and not playing illegally in Nevada. Just sayin’…

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    • Last Updated 8 months ago
  • elementasrat

    Why is no one answering Ryazan’s original question. He didn’t come here asking for help for a supposed gambling addiction. Aside from Max, none of you have actually given him useful advice on the legal aspect. I also am curious whether or not Fanduel broke the law because it sure does look like it.

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