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  • timc9842

    Has anyone else noticed that many of the cash lines are higher for 50/50s rather than GPPs? I haven’t really studied it too hard, but does anyone else find this to be true? If so, isn’t it wiser to start putting more money in GPPs? I would love to hear your thoughts on this subject!

  • NoLimits0

    @blenderhd said...

    I agree with this completely, the long term profitability will end up dipping under the rake line eventually as more and more users who play suboptimal builds quit playing cash games. However, It’s not the argument being debated on whether or not it is collusion.

    I never said it was collusion. It’s more of an indirect form of it but it’s not enforceable and even if it was, it’s not really collusion.

    If everyone buys the same stock because an analyst recommended it, its perfectly fine, similar thing here.

    I just don’t like it when people actually think a lot of these pros come up with the projections on their own. Some may tweak it here and there and some may add some stuff, but let’s be honest the backdrop of most projection models is from these websites who on average do a good job.

    I actually don’t think people realize this. They actually should sign up for like RG premium and other features and try it out themselves. It gives a big edge especially if you are playing for way more than the monthly cost.

  • blenderhd

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    @NoLimits0 said...

    I just don’t like it when people actually think a lot of these pros come up with the projections on their own. Some may tweak it here and there and some may add some stuff, but let’s be honest the backdrop of most projection models is from these websites who on average do a good job.

    I actually don’t think people realize this. They actually should sign up for like RG premium and other features and try it out themselves. It gives a big edge especially if you are playing for way more than the monthly cost.

    For sure most people don’t realize this. Even those who actually subscribe to premium sites like RG don’t. But I believe it primarily comes from the worldview that it’s just a matter of knowing the sport extremely well and parsing through the stats, and want the pros/experts’ “picks” or “rankings” for the night based on this, rather than simply having the above-average projections (which they’re paying for) do much of this legwork for them while removing most of the human bias that can lead to suboptimal decisions.

  • gvn2fly1421

    So what happens when hoop, csuram, 3rd and schlong all come up with the same gpp lineup?

  • bigez952

    The most depressing part of this whole debate is knowing that I can spend 10+ hours a week going game by game doing research to build the best lineup that I personally can for the week and I will get smoked by the 50% that pay a monthly fee and do nothing but push “optimize”. I love DFS but as a casual player who plays $45 to $75 a week I can’t justify paying $40 a month on top of the rake just for a shot to break even.

    I miss the old days where time and putting in the work would provide an edge before good optimizers took the industry over so its now either only play a tiny bit for the fun or it or join the herd and pay for an optimizer and projection model yourself.

    I think the end is starting to get near for me as I dropped all sports but NFL and PGA this year and we will see what 2020 brings. I just don’t know what I would do with my time every week if I couldn’t spend hours upon hours reading articles and doing research to try and put the pieces together just one time on my own.

  • gvn2fly1421

    Bh, what is the excuse for the same set of guys with the same lineup in the high dollar gpps tonight? Six game slate and you landed on it as well?? I am just thankful RG post the links to all these high dollar games so we can see what goes on. Check the Baller on FD and the Legend on Dk for tonight. Wakeywakey, EM2, and 3rd and Schlong. All the usuals..

    Edit… Check the FD Rainmaker… The three have the same lineup but hoop and csuram didn’t get the memo and landed on a different lineup. How could this happen bhdevault?? I was lead to believe it only happens in cash games and it is not colluding…

  • emoney1214

    @Njsum1 said...

    Honestly, I don’t know why this is even being discussed, it is what it is. The DFS sites can’t tell friends that they can’t make cash game lineups together (ie..discuss top plays) and they can’t tell content sites that they can’t offer projections. And therefore they can’t tell DFS players that they can’t use projections. That would be totally ridiculous, not to mention completely unenforceable.

    The solution is simple, if you can’t beat these projections at least 55% of the time, don’t play cash. Or pay for the projections. No one HAS to play cash games.

    Only reason I chimed in, is because I didn’t like the argument/suggestion, that if it’s allowed, it must be righteous.

    I agree with what you are saying. I’m not sure if 10,20,100 man are considered but those are essentially in the same boat. Two days I’ve had lineups that should have cashed based on how I did with the lineup in ggps but duplicate optimizer lineups pushed me out. I’m not complaining, but it’s just a fact. Some of these “pros” are literally putting out optimized site lineups with no tweaks or changes. In the past people with good optimizes could do this and crush, but now almost everyone has access, the razor thin edge is thinner. You can do hours of research and if you do a good job, you most likely will come to very similar plays to an optimizer on many nights.

  • bhdevault

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    @gvn2fly1421 said...

    Bh, what is the excuse for the same set of guys with the same lineup in the high dollar gpps tonight? Six game slate and you landed on it as well?? I am just thankful RG post the links to all these high dollar games so we can see what goes on. Check the Baller on FD and the Legend on Dk for tonight. Wakeywakey, EM2, and 3rd and Schlong. All the usuals..

    Edit… Check the FD Rainmaker… The three have the same lineup but hoop and csuram didn’t get the memo and landed on a different lineup. How could this happen bhdevault?? I was lead to believe it only happens in cash games and it is not colluding…

    Is it their cash games being entered into it? I enter my cash game lineup into multiple GPP’s every night just in case. Heck, it paid off last week when I won a bunch of tournaments with it.

    Colluding in a GPP is when 2 guys enter 300 lineups together, giving them access to more combinations. If I build 300 lineups and have you enter 150 lineups for me, that’s colluding.

  • gvn2fly1421

    Lol, so first it is cash games and now it is “cash game lineups in gpps”. Sorry to bother you on this obviously non trivial issue.

  • DFSx42

    @NoLimits0 said...

    You are also missing the point here. Real sports knowledge has nothing to do with this.

    Awesemo and youdacao probably don’t have great sports knowledge but the difference is they have their own projections. The thing about that huge list of players is they don’t even have their own projections they just take it off a third party website. That’s the difference no one actually cares about the real sports knowledge part. Some of the best people in tech have no coding knowledge (Steve Jobs). Some of the best people in finance have no finance knowledge but are good at identifying stat arb and mean reversion.

    Nothing to do with sports knowledge here. More to do with creating own projections vs using others and in this case everyone using the same third party projection and then claiming r squared to sound smart.

    i really hate this mindset, it’s literally impossible to make those projections unless you understand how those points are created and are able to deconstruct and then predict production going forward

    they may not want to sit in the bleachers with facepaint on their beer belly and they may not even watch the games, but they sure as hell have a very deep understanding of the game despite that to you it just looks like they are simply inputting numbers

    my journey towards creating my own models has led myself deep down a journey into truly understanding the game, even if it’s one like golf or soccer that i previously never showed any interest in prior to dfs

  • Landa501

    @gvn2fly1421 said...

    Bh, what is the excuse for the same set of guys with the same lineup in the high dollar gpps tonight? Six game slate and you landed on it as well?? I am just thankful RG post the links to all these high dollar games so we can see what goes on. Check the Baller on FD and the Legend on Dk for tonight. Wakeywakey, EM2, and 3rd and Schlong. All the usuals..

    Edit… Check the FD Rainmaker… The three have the same lineup but hoop and csuram didn’t get the memo and landed on a different lineup. How could this happen bhdevault?? I was lead to believe it only happens in cash games and it is not colluding…

    Lol yeah I did actually went out of my way this week just to check things haven’t changed in years and sure enough all the aforementioned and others like Mangoon proved for the millionth time they couldn’t make a lineup themselves all week in NBA. I guess that theory of “the lineup was so easy and obvious!” applies every night

  • NoLimits0

    @DFSx42 said...

    i really hate this mindset, it’s literally impossible to make those projections unless you understand how those points are created and are able to deconstruct and then predict production going forward

    they may not want to sit in the bleachers with facepaint on their beer belly and they may not even watch the games, but they sure as hell have a very deep understanding of the game despite that to you it just looks like they are simply inputting numbers

    my journey towards creating my own models has led myself deep down a journey into truly understanding the game, even if it’s one like golf or soccer that i previously never showed any interest in prior to dfs

    Why did you quote my post? Did you read my post in context you shoulda quoted Landas post above mine talking about people getting respect for knowing sports.

    My post was trying to emphasize that there are two types of pros: people who make their own projections and people who borrow projections and differentiate the two. I brought up Awesemo as an example because he’s said in interviews he doesn’t really know the sports super well but he’s obviously good technically.

    I was responding to Landas post in him saying the two types of people are the ones who know sports and the ones who don’t whereas I’m saying it’s more like the ones who do their own thing vs borrow others.

  • DFSx42

    @NoLimits0 said...

    Why did you quote my post? Did you read my post in context you shoulda quoted Landas post above mine talking about people getting respect for knowing sports.

    My post was trying to emphasize that there are two types of pros: people who make their own projections and people who borrow projections and differentiate the two. I brought up Awesemo as an example because he’s said in interviews he doesn’t really know the sports super well but he’s obviously good technically.

    I was responding to Landas post in him saying the two types of people are the ones who know sports and the ones who don’t whereas I’m saying it’s more like the ones who do their own thing vs borrow others.

    no, i did not misunderstand, in fact, you are actually doubling down on exactly what i was disagreeing with :)

    I’m sure alex was either being super modest or he meant that he doesn’t know the sports like someone doing analytics in a front office would. being able to project opportunity and ability to produce fantasy points is a much simpler and easier task than say reviewing NCAA stats and determining which players to draft – which is another skill set entirely

    he is beyond question top 0.1% of sports knowledge

    he’s also good at game selection too :) https://i.imgur.com/0RlpMA0.png

    honestly, if you think there are pros out there just using publicly available projections and taking it to the bank… then why aren’t you or everyone else doing that as well?

  • NoLimits0

    @DFSx42 said...

    no, i did not misunderstand, in fact, you are actually doubling down on exactly what i was disagreeing with :)

    I’m sure alex was either being super modest or he meant that he doesn’t know the sports like someone doing analytics in a front office would. being able to project opportunity and ability to produce fantasy points is a much simpler and easier task than say reviewing NCAA stats and determining which players to draft – which is another skill set entirely

    he is beyond question top 0.1% of sports knowledge

    he’s also good at game selection too :) https://i.imgur.com/0RlpMA0.png

    honestly, if you think there are pros out there just using publicly available projections and taking it to the bank… then why aren’t you or everyone else doing that as well?

    No you clearly misunderstood. Read Landas post before mine in sequential order. I never brought up the “respect” “chop” etc references. You realize my post was quoting Landas post right?

    And yes it’s true a lot of these pros don’t have as much “sports knowledge” as some of the other pros. My point was it doesn’t matter because I’m separating the people who make their own projections vs the ones who don’t.

    And yes the ones who don’t don’t really make money. When did I say they did? I said they just had the same lineup and I’ve been giving info like their ranking that I doubt they are up. I’ve been pretty consistent with that. The top ones who make their own like Awesemo and youdacao are the ones up (again read my post already stated this). But that doesn’t mean they have as much sports knowledge as others. They just have a better combination of sports knowledge and technical aspects.

  • DFSx42

    @NoLimits0 said...

    No you clearly misunderstood. Read Landas post before mine in sequential order. I never brought up the “respect” “chop” etc references. You realize my post was quoting Landas post right?

    And yes it’s true a lot of these pros don’t have as much “sports knowledge” as some of the other pros. My point was it doesn’t matter because I’m separating the people who make their own projections vs the ones who don’t.

    And yes the ones who don’t don’t really make money. When did I say they did? I said they just had the same lineup and I’ve been giving info like their ranking that I doubt they are up. I’ve been pretty consistent with that. The top ones who make their own like Awesemo and youdacao are the ones up (again read my post already stated this). But that doesn’t mean they have as much sports knowledge as others. They just have a better combination of sports knowledge and technical aspects.

    Dude, I’m disagreeing with exactly what you’re stating here

    “And yes it’s true a lot of these pros don’t have as much “sports knowledge” as some of the other pros. My point was it doesn’t matter because I’m separating the people who make their own projections vs the ones who don’t.”

    This is what I’m disagreeing with.

    You think you can do well at DFS without sports knowledge and that there’s these pros that are just copy pasting rotogrinders projections.

    Neither of those are true.

  • DFSx42

    re: Some of the best people in tech have no coding knowledge (Steve Jobs). – nolimits0

    this is another thing that’s false, he was an absolute expert

    the famous part of the quotation is: “Steve didn’t ever code” Steve Wozniak

    people who haven’t worked in tech are shocked by that and have commandeered it as an example of not needing to know the details to suceed

    however, here’s the full quotation:

    “Steve didn’t ever code,” writes Wozniak. “He wasn’t an engineer and he didn’t do any original design, but he was technical enough to alter and change and add to other designs.”

    If you can take a look at a motherboard and realize you could move one piece to another section or take a look at source code and understand where the bug is, you sure as hell are an expert in those fields and know exactly what you are doing. In the early days, Jobs was paired off with an idiot savant who was much better at it than him (Wozniak is perhaps a modern day engineering GOAT) and in the later days he was in management. However, when someone proposed an internal antenna or pointed out difficulties in coding an operating system that relied upon the mouse, he understood intimately what they were talking about and often came up with solutions the engineers coding or building the project hadn’t thought of themselves.

    Yes, Jobs didn’t code. Just like Zuckerburg hasn’t coded in years. Just like Gates hadn’t coded in decades. Just like the CEO of McDonald’s isn’t taking orders or flipping burgers.

    He could drive a car very well, but it made more sense for him to hire better drivers for the big races. You’re making it seem as if he didn’t even know how to drive a car and never even sat behind the wheel.

    It’s simply impossible to succeed in DFS without indepth knowledge of the sport in question and a highly analytical mind. If it were easy then nobody would be consistently making money off it.

    Likewise, if you just found some projections from rotowire, rotogrinders, numberfire, etc etc and inputting those raw numbers in then you’re doomed for failure. If that’s what the pros who end up on the same lineups did then they wouldn’t be pros for much longer because the first time someone used the rg optimizer and got the same cash line as moklovin they’d realize they hit a gold mine and join him as an end boss.

  • superstars92

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    I’m beyond confused at this thread but it’s just entertaining to read. I’m almost 100% sure NoLimits was complimenting Awesemo for coming up for his own projections and DFSx42 is taking it personally by being hurt he was criticizing Awesemo? That alone makes the responses so weird because they are almost arguing the same point but at each other. Like I read the previous posts in this thread, there are at least multiple references to him complimenting Awesemo and it looks to me his original response was to someone who said DFS pros don’t have as much sports knowledge as others (and his response is “yea they probably don’t have as much sports knowledge as others, but it doesn’t matter because as long as they come up with their own projections it’s good and he points to Awesemo and youdacao as two pros who come up with their own projections on their own which is why they don’t always have the same cash game lineup every night, the main discussion of the thread”). On that topic, I agree, I think most of his in the NBA forum (Panda) or NFL forum (mike42) probably have more “sports knowledge” than most pros but they aren’t as good quantitatively (or more importantly time wise since most of us don’t do this 100%), so they won’t be as good overall since daily fantasy sports has a lot of math. The basis is more math centered than sports focused because it doesn’t matter you know team A plays A-gap X% of the time or has outside runs Y% of the time because if you can’t feed that into a model to properly spit out results, relative to salaries/optimization constraints, you won’t ever be good.

    Anyways, carry on, this is just entertaining.

    EDIT: yea actually clearly they are arguing the same point. The Steve Jobs comment was clearly a compliment by NoLimits and DFSx42 is taking it as a criticism as Steve Jobs. That’s actually funny. Saying “some of the best people in tech have no coding knowledge (Steve Jobs)” is an incredible compliment to Steve Jobs, but DFSx42 is taking it as a diss towards him. The fact that he couldn’t code even a basic Java program but could come up with the innovations he did is a huge compliment. Alright, well, anyways that was an interesting read.

  • DFSx42

    nope, dude straight up said that there are people who literally earn a living off playing DFS with sparse real knowledge of sports and/or use public projections

    I simply said neither were true and also pointed out that his steve jobs analogy was also incorrect as jobs did indeed know how to code and build electronic devices, he just didn’t happen to physically be the one doing it as far as apple was concerned

    it literally had nothing to do with either jobs nor awesemo, i was simply pointing out his assumptions were incorrect

    where i’m coming from is that i’m tired of seeing that same old trope of “the algo guys don’t understand sports” or assumptions that people are just copy pasting projections – it really begs the question that if anyone can earn millions off dfs from copy pasting and inputting into an optimizer than why can’t the person who makes the claim that’s how those pros do it also do it as well and make millions since it apparently doesn’t take any knowledge of either sports nor analytics

    also, regarding your statement on the math vs sports knowledge nobody does projections based off stuff like outside routes run etc… a big part of success in dfs is being able to realize what data matters and what data is simply noise. if a back more frequently runs to the outside or the inside is pretty immaterial and can be game planned out by coaching decisions anyway

    you’re 100% right that it doesn’t matter if you know what % of the time a back does a certain type of run, but not for the reasons you mentioned, that would never be included in a dfs projection system

    like blenderhd (who I’m only mentioning because he’s here itt), i really admire his honesty when he does analysis because he’s very much about the “hey we have no idea what will happen” i could be mistaken, but I’m pretty sure he’s not not an algorithm player but in my mind his success comes largely based upon having the correct mindset for dfs, the mindset of accepting that he has no idea what will happen but will choose players who he believes have the most likely opportunity to perform well for x, y, & z reasons. He doesn’t go “this guy runs to the outside and this team is bad at stopping outside runs” he says “it’s a weak defense and this running back gets heavy volume so there’s a good pathway to having a good game” and that’s the path to success, not modeling for which % of the time is A gap or outside and yadda yadda yadda, especially when most of the year we’re dealing with a meaningless single digit sample size

  • superstars92

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    @DFSx42 said...

    nope, dude straight up said that there are people who literally earn a living off playing DFS with sparse real knowledge of sports and/or use public projections

    I’m not even sure that’s what he said (can he respond please it make the thread better!), but that’s actually not even false. One of my friends (ironically works at one of the big tech companies that you guys were talking about earlier) literally knows NOTHING about the NBA but was pretty profitable last year because he knew the “asset” rather than the “player.” I don’t know exactly what he made since we don’t really talk about details, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was as much as his tech job (lucky him, in tech you have more “free time” at work).

    Funny story – I was like “dude did you hear Boogie Cousins got hurt again this summer” (cause he lives in the Bay Area) and his response was like “who’s that”. Then after like a while he realized that was DeMarcus Cousins, who played C for the Warriors, who he can’t tell what he looks like. His response was like “oh yea I actually know him, he was pretty good when Draymond was out last year” (he also did not know he was on the Lakers now). I was like dude you played DFS last year and you lived in the Bay Area and you didn’t know he was called Boogie and he was like nope, I only know the stats on him, he didn’t even know what he looked like. I was blown away.

    It’s like trading, which I have more knowledge in. I would say most algo traders can’t tell you much about AAPL the company (like debt, free cash flow, company execs besides Cook), but can tell you all the technical details about AAPL (like mean reversion, momentum, earnings dates, implied vol). Those algo traders probably are going to be more profitable than fundamental traders, especially if you are trading short term (which DFS is, hence the daily part relative to season long fantasy sports where maybe sports knowledge plays a bigger role and math plays a smaller role with more variance).

    Anyways, I have no idea if that was what you guys were discussing, but that story about Boogie I found to be awesome.

  • DFSx42

    big difference between being successful at dfs and being a pro with a six figure investment each slate

    i think that’s the problem, we’re fundamentally talking about two very different people, i’m talking about pros and you’re talking about someone who’s had some success

  • superstars92

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    @DFSx42 said...

    big difference between being successful at dfs and being a pro with a six figure investment each slate

    i think that’s the problem, we’re fundamentally talking about two very different people, i’m talking about pros and you’re talking about someone who’s had some success

    Wait are you talking about my story? The fact he’s “successful” despite having another job and still doesn’t know Boogie Cousins is Demarcus Cousins shows me you definitely can be “super successful” if you also didn’t have another job on the side (is that a “pro” in your definition). I’m actually not sure your “successfulness” marginally even goes up without another job on the side actually since if your opportunity cost in tech is little (nice free lunches and nap pods), it’s nothing to sacrifice. So in a way, you can stil be a “pro” and have another job on the side? If your definition of pro is a six figure investment every night, that may be only applies to 5 people.

    I don’t actually know, never met any pros. I should start submitting some “live finals” entries just to I can meet one.

  • DFSx42

    the literal definition of pro is professional as in that’s what they do for a living, it’s not slang for someone who does well

    i agree, only a few dozen out there who are professional dfs players

    that’s what we’ve been discussing and all those people understand sports at a high level and none are copy/pasting public projections

    maybe this is the source of contention? people use pro as a generic word for successful?

  • NoLimits0

    Superstars: I don’t know why you think this is entertaining. I was giving serious answers to a serious topic but my answers get derailed because someone wants to nit pick a small detail.

    DFSx42 clearly NEVER read Landas post which I told him to read a million times. He’s clearly just someone sucking up to Awesemo (cough Alex which he calls him here) and it’s a joke because as you mentioned I was praising Awesemo.

    Here’s the context for people to understand.

    Landa mentions guys like “Chop and BigT” get a lot more “respect” as pros because they have good sports knowledge.

    I quote him and literally tell him “that’s not the point. Although other pros like Awesemo and youdacao may not have as much sports knowledge as the ones he brings up, it doesn’t matter because they still get respect”. And the reason is because they come up with their own projections which also explains why they don’t have the same lineup every single night in every sport. It also explains why their rankings are uniquely 1 and 2 and not in a crowd ranking of 30-50 which are non profitable max entry players.

    I was praising them for coming up with their own projections and saying despite them not having as much pure sports knowledge as previously discussed by Landa, it doesn’t matter because DFS is a combination of math, computer science, linear optimization, and sports knowledge and it’s the combination of the 4 that matters not just the latter. This is why I also brought up Steve Jobs. I was making an analogy you don’t have to be a great coder to be a pioneer in tech.

    So why does this matter. It’s because there’s another group of pros who have the same lineup every single night (wakeywakey, EmpireMaker2, 3rd and schlong, TeeJayorTJ). My point is these people probably either work together or use a known optimizer and hence this is my machine learning vs R squared joke about maybe they need to use machine learning like youdacao or their ranking won’t ever be as high (it’s a sarcastic way of saying clearly they are letting the others, whether it be in a group or a known optimizer, do work for them)

    Get it DFSx42? Nah you probably don’t because you want to nit pick how much of a genius Awesemo is at sports knowledge.

    We all know guys like Bif in the golf forum or Mike in the NFL forum have actual more sports knowledge than Awesemo but it’s not like that alone makes them better DFS players. A guy like Bif nearly played professional golf and knows the players like the back of his hand. He even knows up and coming players not on tour yet. Don’t tell me Awesemo has more golf knowledge than him. But it doesn’t make Awesemo a worse DFS player than him because DFS is more than sports knowledge, the entire point. But no go ahead keep sucking up to Awesemo I mean Alex. I like how you never brought up youdacao even though I used him as an example too….just Alex.

    Jeez I gave some serious responses to a serious topic and we have this fool trying to argue one thing over and over again without even reading any previous posts.

  • NoLimits0

    @DFSx42 said...

    the literal definition of pro is professional as in that’s what they do for a living, it’s not slang for someone who does well

    i agree, only a few dozen out there who are professional dfs players

    that’s what we’ve been discussing and all those people understand sports at a high level and none are copy/pasting public projections

    maybe this is the source of contention? people use pro as a generic word for successful?

    Why don’t you also read the back and forth between me and blenderhd (who is a pretty successful player possibly a semi pro?). Clearly you are wrong. Most pros do in fact use public projections (or group projections) as a baseline for all their choices if not some just outright from time to time. That’s the whole basis of why so many people have the same lineup every night.

  • DFSx42

    nowhere was i sucking up to awesemo, if you bothered to click the link, you’d see i was actually kind of poking fun at him for blocking me from taking his h2hs :)

    again, i wasn’t talking about any of that stuff you mentioned in that wall of text

    you stated some pros use public projections. you also stated some pros don’t have much sports knowledge. these are common sentiments often stated, very famously in the ryazan vs maxdalury thread of “he just uses data science and doesn’t understand sports”

    maybe I misunderstood you on the sports knowledge bit, but you keep on insisting that people who do dfs for a living use public projections

    since it’s that simple you should also go use those public projections and start printing that money, report back in 6 months when you start nolimitsDFS.com and I’ll be your first sub

    if you honestly believe actually professional dfs players use public projections then what’s stopping you or the thousands of other people on RG from quitting their day jobs and becoming professional dfs players as well?

    what you are stating is outright false. yes, there’s indeed a lot of wisdom of the crowd used in creating projections, but nobody is simply copy pasting, they are using other projection sources as part of the equation rather than the end product

    i personally use outside projections to give my own a better baseline. for example, if i project Brady for 30 points but everyone else projects for 20 then it’s far more likely I’m closer to being wrong than they are so that’ll drag my own projection down to 27 or so, I’ll stand by my system, but I’m stupid enough to think that if a half dozen models all disagree with me that I’m the one who is more likely the one who is correct

  • NoLimits0

    @DFSx42 said...

    ok then, since it’s that simple you should also go use those public projections and start printing that money, report back in 6 months when you start nolimitsDFS.com and I’ll be your first sub

    Another useless post. You really shouldn’t be a lawyer.

    I also clearly mentioned in my previous posts before you even posted these guys who just take the public/group projections aren’t even making money. See my back and forth with blenderHD. I clearly mentioned the ones who are like Awesemo and youdacao come up with their own projections. It also just doesn’t mean they have more sports knowledge than people lol Bif on golf.

    Seriously I literally covered all your possible responses before you even made your first post here with my past posts. All your sarcasm in your post is completely pointless it’s actually funny. I’m glad I’m quoting it so you cant go back and edit it.

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