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  • easternmh

    • x3

      Blogger of the Month

    That is all.

  • Mjk12

    Im not saying that I think fan duel is taking control of the entries and changing players to benefit them what I am saying tho is that this is a GUARANTEED prize pool.

    It is not okay that players entries were deemed cancelled and then are still live vs players entries that were not cancelled. How do people not see the problem here those dead entries have an opportunity to take pieces of the GUARANTEED prize pool from the players that are still actively participating in the contest and deliver it directly into the coffers of the site? This is not guaranteeing that the 1.2 million will be distributed fully to the players.

    I understand they had a site issue but that is not the players issue if we decided to move forward with our investments. It is not okay for the site to have any stake in the prize pool what so ever, which is essentially what they are buying back from the players by refunding them.

    For example. Say an even number 5000 entries were requested to be deleted. Say 10 percent of those cash and say one of them would have won the entire contest for 120k. Lets say that fan duels total cashing value of the entries that they took over is $150,000 just for arguments sake and even numbers. Now, that $150,000 is no longer being distributed to the players that chose to still participate in the $1.25 MILLION guaranteed prize pool. They are no longer honoring what we signed up under the guise of. That is unethical and shady to me. It is not my problem as a customer that decided not to cancel my entries that they decided to give a refund and take control of the dead entries. Those entries should be zeroed or deleted from the contest and the remaining live entries play for the guarantee that was posted. Period there is no other way to handle it that does not make them look bad/unethical or potentially breaking laws which I’m sure multiple people are looking into.

    Yes they should take a hit for this and they should have to pay whatever it is to guarantee the live entries the full guarantee and pay back the refunds that they offered. Im sorry I’m not sorry because this is not a player issue and we shouldn’t make decisions based off the info that they give to us for it to change later and be at a disadvantage specifically to the house.

  • deactivated23444

    I think my biggest takeaway is not FD’s error’s and lack of communication, but DK’s sleazy transfer bonus offer. That kind of business behavior breeds very bad karma in my line of work. Interesting weekend in DFS to say the least.

  • everettcase

    FD should take every penny they “win” on entries they took over, put that money in a variety of Week 3 freerolls, and invite everyone that entered a contest on Sunday to join those freerolls via email.

  • Mjk12

    That would be better than keeping the money and giving players refunds where they potentially could profit from refunding based off how much “their” entries that they now control cash for.

  • everettcase

    @ml318 said...

    I think my biggest takeaway is not FD’s error’s and lack of communication, but DK’s sleazy transfer bonus offer. That kind of business behavior breeds very bad karma in my line of work. Interesting weekend in DFS to say the least.

    I feel you on the bad karma call since that’s basically how every single cable provider/cell service provider/etc operates and everyone hates all of those guys. Just think it’s worth pointing out that enticing customers to switch from one service to a competitor by taking advantage of that competitor’s failure is something that happens in pretty much every business environment (have you seen any car commercials in the past few years? Just one of many examples of competitors taking shots at each other).

  • thinair

    The other thing I will say about this thread is that the internet can really bring the worst out in some people. I’ll even cop to this, sometimes I will get more frustrated/inflamed online and say things that are not constructive or simply do not need to be said.

    Have some compassion for some people, especially the newer people. Let them bitch/vent if they lost out or feel they are getting cheated or whatever.

    Basically everyone needs to get off their high horse. That’s probably my biggest beef with the DFS community. It’s too similar to the poker community. Too many people act like they are better or feel the need to school others, put other people in their place.

    It’s more or less why I don’t do the forums much if at all. I’ve met a few cool people in DFS but also deal with more drama/trolling than I would care too.

    But, at the end of the day it’s a tiny % of people on the planet and it’s within a given timeframe and perspective. Few people are static. Few people are capable of not reacting to events or things that are said to them. Some people definitely come across as jerks online, but that doesn’t mean they are bad people or for you to have some lack of faith in humanity.

    If people want to bash FD, that’s one thing, but stop bashing each other. Having mods delete posts is pretty awesome imho and it should end there.

  • nam2312

    • 2019 $1M Prize Winner

    @Mjk12 said...

    That would be better than keeping the money and giving players refunds where they potentially could profit from refunding based off how much “their” entries that they now control cash for.

    I agree, plus I believe I read that the refunded entries will still show as owned by the player who entered them, meaning you will not be able to tell which winning entries were actually paid and which were kept in house.

  • GatticusFinch

    @Mjk12 said...

    Im not saying that I think fan duel is taking control of the entries and changing players to benefit them what I am saying tho is that this is a GUARANTEED prize pool.

    It is not okay that players entries were deemed cancelled and then are still live vs players entries that were not cancelled. How do people not see the problem here those dead entries have an opportunity to take pieces of the GUARANTEED prize pool from the players that are still actively participating in the contest and deliver it directly into the coffers of the site? This is not guaranteeing that the 1.2 million will be distributed fully to the players.

    I understand they had a site issue but that is not the players issue if we decided to move forward with our investments. It is not okay for the site to have any stake in the prize pool what so ever, which is essentially what they are buying back from the players by refunding them.

    For example. Say an even number 5000 entries were requested to be deleted. Say 10 percent of those cash and say one of them would have won the entire contest for 120k. Lets say that fan duels total cashing value of the entries that they took over is $150,000 just for arguments sake and even numbers. Now, that $150,000 is no longer being distributed to the players that chose to still participate in the $1.25 MILLION guaranteed prize pool. They are no longer honoring what we signed up under the guise of. That is unethical and shady to me. It is not my problem as a customer that decided not to cancel my entries that they decided to give a refund and take control of the dead entries. Those entries should be zeroed or deleted from the contest and the remaining live entries play for the guarantee that was posted. Period there is no other way to handle it that does not make them look bad/unethical or potentially breaking laws which I’m sure multiple people are looking into.

    Yes they should take a hit for this and they should have to pay whatever it is to guarantee the live entries the full guarantee and pay back the refunds that they offered. Im sorry I’m not sorry because this is not a player issue and we shouldn’t make decisions based off the info that they give to us for it to change later and be at a disadvantage specifically to the house.

    +1 and they NEVER SAID they were going to take over those entries at the time in which people had to decide to cancel. All FD said was that those entries would be cancelled and refunded. It would take a massive leap of logic to conclude that what they actually meant was that FD was buying them and playing them, something that would scare away anyone who is rake conscious. To then give those who cancelled their full FDP as if they had played is just a kick in the balls to those of us who played.

  • dfskehd

    found it:

    Title VIII—Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement

    …”(II) All winning outcomes reflect the relative
    knowledge and skill of the participants and are
    determined predominantly by accumulated statistical
    results of the performance of individuals (athletes
    in the case of sports events) in multiple realworld
    sporting or other events…

    Who are the participants now?

  • madmanjayWV

    @ml318 said...

    I think my biggest takeaway is not FD’s error’s and lack of communication, but DK’s sleazy transfer bonus offer. That kind of business behavior breeds very bad karma in my line of work. Interesting weekend in DFS to say the least.

    And the great thing about it is….you know it’s going to happen again.

    I love FD. I love DK…Heck I loved BUZZFEED…..

    Crap happens, but the overall emphasis here lies in the fact a huge company with boatloads of $$$ was ill-prepared on more than one front. This should be a lesson well learned, but alas, it’s not likely to be.

  • ddmcd1974

    @GatticusFinch said...

    Those of us who chose to play under what was stated as other lineups being cancelled and refunded turned out to be playing against lineups owned by the house when we could have just cancelled and kept the FDP for money we didn’t even wager? DAT +EV. Apparently the correct move was to play your entire bankroll and then cancel.

    You told the player base the entries would be cancelled. After the time to cancel expired, you are telling the player base that the entries were not cancelled, but were instead bought by the house. If house-owned entries push me out of the money, I am going to be livid.

    You would have to be a psychic to have figured that out no? I mean no one knew their plan until later. So your jumping a really far bridge to make your assumption. One other question why do you care who you lose too? If you lose you lose. As long as you have the lineup you wanted whats the difference? Curious thats all.

  • jecarl2

    I personally had issues with the site loading the entire weekend. I came on RG several times to see if anyone had posted anything about it but nothing. I gave up and ended up just playing on DK this past weekend thinking the issue was with my browser.

    I realize there was late injury news and people wanted to react, but if you have been doing this for a few years you know not to wait until the last minute to enter lineups. Again, this is not geared towards people who needed to get Martin out of their lineups or get Rainey into their lineups.

    For the newer people out there, get your lineups done ahead of time, don’t tinker with them leading up to lock. I would rather have the option for my games to count, continue to enjoy Sunday, than to risk an invalid lineup and hope and pray FD offers some concessions-in this case a refund.

  • detroittigers44

    I still don’t understand how “canceled” entries into games that were refunded and not paid can still be considered valid and have a chance to beat others that were paid and not canceled. I don’t care if they are considered “owned” by Fanduel or anyone else for that matter, that is not right.

  • The1WhoKnocks

    @ml318 said...

    I think my biggest takeaway is not FD’s error’s and lack of communication, but DK’s sleazy transfer bonus offer. That kind of business behavior breeds very bad karma in my line of work. Interesting weekend in DFS to say the least.

    More sleazy is having one of the biggest reps of your site (Fatal Error) tweeting a facepalm to the CEO of FD. He also made sure to add a period in front of the Tweet so all of the followers see it. Oh yeah, and one of DK’s other employees favorited it.

    We can be thankful FE doesn’t work for Southwest Air or he would surely have tweeted at the Malaysian Air CEO a few times over the last couple of months.

  • looningabout

    @thinair said...

    The other thing I will say about this thread is that the internet can really bring the worst out in some people. I’ll even cop to this, sometimes I will get more frustrated/inflamed online and say things that are not constructive or simply do not need to be said.

    Have some compassion for some people, especially the newer people. Let them bitch/vent if they lost out or feel they are getting cheated or whatever.

    Basically everyone needs to get off their high horse. That’s probably my biggest beef with the DFS community. It’s too similar to the poker community. Too many people act like they are better or feel the need to school others, put other people in their place.

    It’s more or less why I don’t do the forums much if at all. I’ve met a few cool people in DFS but also deal with more drama/trolling than I would care too.

    But, at the end of the day it’s a tiny % of people on the planet and it’s within a given timeframe and perspective. Few people are static. Few people are capable of not reacting to events or things that are said to them. Some people definitely come across as jerks online, but that doesn’t mean they are bad people or for you to have some lack of faith in humanity.

    If people want to bash FD, that’s one thing, but stop bashing each other. Having mods delete posts is pretty awesome imho and it should end there.

    thank you for constructively articulating what I wanted to say. my version was much more hot-headed

  • btwice80

    I actually believe they would zero out the cancelled entries if it were possible, but as we know nothing is automated there and it would take at least a week and probably more to comb through every contest manually. That’s partly because, contrary to what others have suggested, all contests need to be treated the same, including every 50/50, league and h2h. No, they are not guaranteed ahead of time, but once they are filled and running they essentially are. And no one is willing to wait (maybe very very few are) for week 2 payouts.

  • Yannick8

    A few months ago i had a problem on DraftStreet and i thought they solved it perfectly. In short, when i made my NHL line up in the morning, players from one game weren’t available and when the contests started, i realized everyone else had players from those 2 teams. I guess they had a problem and corrected it during the day. I emailed them about it and they decided to let all my line ups in the contests but if i were to lose money at the end of the day, they would reimburse me the difference. Some of my line ups still cashed and i think they ended up repaying me between 100 and 200 $.

    Maybe this is what FanDuel should have done. Set a strict time frame to send an email to let them know you had a problem setting your line up, let all the contests play out and reimburse people who were affected and ended up losing. I understand that the logistics of this would have been pretty complicated, but at least FanDuel wouldn’t own any line ups in the contests. The only problem with this is that there would have been people waiting to see if their line ups did well of not before emailing FanDuel, but i’m sure they’re dealing with the same problem with the solution they decided to go with.

    With that solution, they would have lost less money than repaying everyone and taking the entries out of the contests, but they would have lost more money than what they decided to do (as they wouldn’t own and profit from good line ups that people decided to cancel).

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @00oreo00 said...

    I really want to see how many of the regulars post week 3 H2H’s. I know it’s still early but I see a lot of big names currently missing from the H2H lobby.

    I haven’t decided what I am going to do yet… but I am leaning towards skipping week 3 on FD and focusing on Draftkings.

    I’ll be posting h2hs on fanduel for week 3. More than week 2.

  • Galante118

    • Blogger of the Month

    @The1WhoKnocks said...

    More sleazy is having one of the biggest reps of your site (Fatal Error) tweeting a facepalm to the CEO of FD. He also made sure to add a period in front of the Tweet so all of the followers see it. Oh yeah, and one of DK’s other employees favorited it.

    We can be thankful FE doesn’t work for Southwest Air or he would surely have tweeted at the Malaysian Air CEO a few times over the last couple of months.

    Seriously…All they do is look out for the players. Fanduel tried to stick it to them multiple times between the DS bonus fiasco they started, and with the same live day final and the ruling of you have to be there or forfeit money. All their competition has done is benefit the players with bonuses. Your mad FD got a litlle taunted? lol really…How about FD doesn’t play in their own tournaments and then we can get all worked up about a tweet. Your priorities here are ass backwards.

  • GatticusFinch

    @ddmcd1974 said...

    You would have to be a psychic to have figured that out no? I mean no one knew their plan until later. So your jumping a really far bridge to make your assumption. One other question why do you care who you lose too? If you lose you lose. As long as you have the lineup you wanted whats the difference? Curious thats all.

    Yes, you would have to be psychic. That’s why I am pissed. I was forced into making a decision without full knowledge. I had to make a decision to play with my lineups I could not tweak or cancel them all. At the time, FD was saying they would all be cancelled, and I decided my untweaked lineups were good enough if others were cancelled, because the player pool would shrink and the overlay increase. Now I find out they were not cancelled, are still alive to push my entries down, and are owned by the house, which makes the rake and payout to the player base incalculable.

    It’s not just losing, it’s a matter of positioning on contests I am cashing in. I have some high scoring entries alive in GPPs where one spot can be thousands of dollars different.

  • NGJSkillz

    @jecarl2 said...

    For the newer people out there, get your lineups done ahead of time, don’t tinker with them leading up to lock. I would rather have the option for my games to count, continue to enjoy Sunday, than to risk an invalid lineup and hope and pray FD offers some concessions-in this case a refund.

    That takes all the fun out of it for me. I work during the week, I like waking up early morning Sunday and filling the 100 or so line-ups I reserve during the week. I’m usually submitting my very last lineup within seconds of lock. I work and play poker during the week. Sunday, 6am est time on, it’s all about fantasy football for me. I should have absolutely zero concern about a daily fantasy sport’s servers crashing 30 mins prior to lock.

  • waffles2003

    FD, can you make public the list of players whose team you are taking over so people still in know who they are competing against? I think it’s the fair thing to do.

  • North

    @bhdevault said...

    Everyone that posts in this thread should first listen to Dan Back’s show first.

    Very good podcast.

    Agree.

    Dan is usually spot on with his commentary, but I had to cringe when he defended people who wanted refunds not because they weren’t able to edit their lineups but rather because they had RGIII, AJ Green, etc. and knew early on their lineups would be losers.

    Dan said he wouldn’t call them unethical and that they were merely “taking advantage” of FD’s problem.

    Ouch.

    Hoping he misspoke and doesn’t really believe that.

    If I see someone drop their wallet, is it okay for me to pick it up and keep it because it’s their fault they dropped it? A lot of people (most?) these days would, but that doesn’t make it right.

    Maybe that comparison leans toward apples and oranges a bit, but right is right and wrong is wrong no matter the fruit.

    Another good Podcast by Dan nonetheless.

  • nam2312

    • 2019 $1M Prize Winner

    @btwice80 said...

    I actually believe they would zero out the cancelled entries if it were possible, but as we know nothing is automated there and it would take at least a week and probably more to comb through every contest manually. That’s partly because, contrary to what others have suggested, all contests need to be treated the same, including every 50/50, league and h2h. No, they are not guaranteed ahead of time, but once they are filled and running they essentially are. And no one is willing to wait (maybe very very few are) for week 2 payouts.

    Wouldn’t FD have to have something in place already to block the winning entries from paying out if it has already been refunded?

  • Galante118

    • Blogger of the Month

    Would it really be so horrific for them to put in the leg work and zero out these contests? I wouldn’t mind waiting the extra 2 days if it increased my profit. I shouldn’t have to play against the house, ever.

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