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  • dips56

    • 2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    This new pricing stinks. Massive Overlap of players on FD tonight on cash games. Fanduel is trying to kill the edge, so newer players money can last longer and it looks like it’s working. I’m disgusted.

  • smutpeddlers

    I am just reading all the posts and have a few things I think are relevant:

    1. FD doesn’t care if “high volume guys” stay or go. Im not a “high volume” guy but find it intersting that the egos of such people makes them think that they have enough clout to change the pricing back. FD will live on with out them.

    2. The industry is expanding and I think like anything the pricing will tighten up, as someone else stated. The game will adapt and this complaining will all but be forgotten. If people were so skilled I think that the edge comes from the knowledge and research not the pricing.

    3. People hate change and I’ve done many papers on change management. There is always this type of blow back but people will get over it and play on FD.

    Disclaimer: I am in no way picking on anyone individual. If you take this to heart do not backlash at me. I am making generalized points that I have concluded from reading this whole thread. This issue is getting old.

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 186

      RG Overall Ranking

    I rarely play on FD but have been the past few days. I see no noticeable difference from when I played there last year. People are saying you can pick whoever you want and have money leftover…I just tried to make a team for tonight with Max and all the best bats and was 11,500 over. What am I missing here? Looked at the big 50/50 from last night and the guy in first had 6 guys under 10% owned and there was a huge gap in the top score and the min cash score.

    And how do fish get better overnight with changes but everyone else doesn’t as well?

  • bigstud2727

    Seems simple to able to build a lineup WITH the top pitcher of the night

    PM. Harvey WAS@NYM $10,300
    CS. Vogt OAK@TEX $3,100

    1BC. Santana TOR@CLE $3,400

    2BR. Cano SEA@HOU $3,500

    3BK. Seager SEA@HOU $3,000

    SSM. Aviles TOR@CLE $2,400

    OFS. Smith SEA@HOU $2,400

    OFA. Jackson SEA@HOU $2,400

    OFH. Ramirez NYY@BOS $4,400

  • sethayates

    @bigstud2727 said...

    Seems simple to able to build a lineup WITH the top pitcher of the night

    PM. Harvey WAS@NYM $10,300
    CS. Vogt OAK@TEX $3,100

    1BC. Santana TOR@CLE $3,400

    2BR. Cano SEA@HOU $3,500

    3BK. Seager SEA@HOU $3,000

    SSM. Aviles TOR@CLE $2,400

    OFS. Smith SEA@HOU $2,400

    OFA. Jackson SEA@HOU $2,400

    OFH. Ramirez NYY@BOS $4,400

    That’s the point. Its supposed to seem simple and inviting. How do you lure in new players with a 705ET lock time when they don’t get home from work until 530ET? Simple, you dumb down the prices so they can build a team in 10 minutes or less from their phone.

    Will that 10-minute team be more competitive with softer pricing? Absolutely. That’s the intent here. There are an estimated 40 million+ (shooting low) people who play season long fantasy. Less than 1% of those people play daily. Why is that? Partly because they feel they can’t compete against the full-timers who have 6-8 hours to devote to this. You dumb down the pricing you get more of those people to play.

    I saw somewhere a while back that FanDuel spends around $50 per new customer on average. I would guess the average new depositor starts with something close to $25. If people try out a site, get crushed and never come back FanDuel doesn’t make their money back. They absolutely have to make DFS playable for the new person. This industry can’t grow without new players.

    My opinion is FanDuel cares about the high-rollers but knows that they aren’t going to leave just because of softer pricing. If you play $100 per night you can get that action down anywhere. If you want to play $5K or more per night you have a lot less options. Right or wrong, FD would rather have 50 guys playing $100 per night than one guy playing $5000.

  • reztes757

    2013 DD BLB Finalist (x2)

    • 186

      RG Overall Ranking

    @bigstud2727 said...

    Seems simple to able to build a lineup WITH the top pitcher of the night

    PM. Harvey WAS@NYM $10,300
    CS. Vogt OAK@TEX $3,100

    1BC. Santana TOR@CLE $3,400

    2BR. Cano SEA@HOU $3,500

    3BK. Seager SEA@HOU $3,000

    SSM. Aviles TOR@CLE $2,400

    OFS. Smith SEA@HOU $2,400

    OFA. Jackson SEA@HOU $2,400

    OFH. Ramirez NYY@BOS $4,400

    You mean who you perceive to be the best pitcher tonight combined with a stack from a team that hasnt put up more than 5 runs in 10 days and you dont even have the player responsible for most of those runs

  • Troll4MVP

    • 30

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #25

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • 2014 DraftKings FFWC Champion

    @smutpeddlers said...

    I am just reading all the posts and have a few things I think are relevant:

    1. FD doesn’t care if “high volume guys” stay or go. Im not a “high volume” guy but find it intersting that the egos of such people makes them think that they have enough clout to change the pricing back. FD will live on with out them.

    2. The industry is expanding and I think like anything the pricing will tighten up, as someone else stated. The game will adapt and this complaining will all but be forgotten. If people were so skilled I think that the edge comes from the knowledge and research not the pricing.

    3. People hate change and I’ve done many papers on change management. There is always this type of blow back but people will get over it and play on FD.

    Disclaimer: I am in no way picking on anyone individual. If you take this to heart do not backlash at me. I am making generalized points that I have concluded from reading this whole thread. This issue is getting old.

    Regarding your first point: One high volume player leaving FD may not matter but if enough leave FD would notice and take action. It’s not about egos, it’s about the fact that the highest volume grinders drive a lot of the action and make it possible for sites to have the big guarantee games that they do.

    Regarding your second point, if you think pricing doesn’t affect edge at all, you are simply wrong. Not saying this new pricing is good or bad, but certainly in general pricing has a huge impact on theoretical edge.

  • realdeals

    @smutpeddlers said...

    I am just reading all the posts and have a few things I think are relevant:

    1. FD doesn’t care if “high volume guys” stay or go. Im not a “high volume” guy but find it intersting that the egos of such people makes them think that they have enough clout to change the pricing back. FD will live on with out them.

    2. The industry is expanding and I think like anything the pricing will tighten up, as someone else stated. The game will adapt and this complaining will all but be forgotten. If people were so skilled I think that the edge comes from the knowledge and research not the pricing.

    3. People hate change and I’ve done many papers on change management. There is always this type of blow back but people will get over it and play on FD.

    Disclaimer: I am in no way picking on anyone individual. If you take this to heart do not backlash at me. I am making generalized points that I have concluded from reading this whole thread. This issue is getting old.

    1. I find this hard to believe. I’m quite sure FD cares if the top 5-10 volume guys left. What business could care less about their best customers. The new ones wouldn’t come close to making up the volume.
    2. Just wait until Mon when Col is at home and look at the cash lineups and %s of the players.

  • smutpeddlers

    @Troll4MVP said...

    Regarding your first point: One high volume player leaving FD may not matter but if enough leave FD would notice and take action. It’s not about egos, it’s about the fact that the highest volume grinders drive a lot of the action and make it possible for sites to have the big guarantee games that they do.

    Most of this pertained to people complaining about cash but I still think this is bigger then the high volume people. I can’t see the high volume GPP players leaving due to pricing. So my point is still valid.

    I should revise saying FF doesn’t care about their ego players. They do but just not enough to make them change the business model if said players decide to leave. Which I doubt they do.

    The pricing has no barring on the edge given to “pros” In GPPs. They will continue to pick the best people and not highest price guys. It does give the casual player a chance to have a lucky night. But in the long run with variance, the high priced every night people will lose.

    I also doubt the 10 most high volume guys are on here complaining. Maybe 1 or 2, I could be wrong though. It is just a huge temper tantrum from people not liking change.

  • 8MileAllstars

    @Troll4MVP said...

    Regarding your first point: One high volume player leaving FD may not matter but if enough leave FD would notice and take action. It’s not about egos, it’s about the fact that the highest volume grinders drive a lot of the action and make it possible for sites to have the big guarantee games that they do.

    Regarding your second point, if you think pricing doesn’t affect edge at all, you are simply wrong. Not saying this new pricing is good or bad, but certainly in general pricing has a huge impact on theoretical edge.

    You’re right that it has an impact on “the edge” but all this means is that there will be new/different “edges” based on the new pricing. The new edge will be whatever the new market inefficiency is.

    Doesn’t matter anyway, you’ll still be cleaning up I’m sure.

  • deactivated79425

    amazing birdwings and csu overlapped again…who would have thought the soft pricing would be so devastating

  • realdeals

    @smutpeddlers said...

    Most of this pertained to people complaining about cash but I still think this is bigger then the high volume people. I can’t see the high volume GPP players leaving due to pricing. So my point is still valid.

    I should revise saying FF doesn’t care about their ego players. They do but just not enough to make them change the business model if said players decide to leave. Which I doubt they do.

    The pricing has no barring on the edge given to “pros” In GPPs. They will continue to pick the best people and not highest price guys. It does give the casual player a chance to have a lucky night. But in the long run with variance, the high priced every night people will lose.

    I also doubt the 10 most high volume guys are on here complaining. Maybe 1 or 2, I could be wrong though. It is just a huge temper tantrum from people not liking change.

    That’s not what you said. You stated for a fact “FD Doesn’t care if high volume players stay or go.”
    i highly doubt that’s correct. Even with just the top cash volume players. FD is banking they don’t leave.
    I would assume if the pricing remains many will move their cash action to other sites.
    I do think they will end up tighting up the saleries.

  • Aurren

    @Troll4MVP said...

    but certainly in general pricing has a huge impact on theoretical edge.

    Explain this to me please. And no, haven’t been satisfied with any posts in this thread to explain this theory up to this point.

  • petteytheft89

    • 19

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #17

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2019 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @realdeals said...

    That’s not what you said. You stated for a fact “FD Doesn’t care if high volume players stay or go.”
    i highly doubt that’s correct. Even with just the top cash volume players. FD is banking they don’t leave.
    I would assume if the pricing remains many will move their cash action to other sites.
    I do think they will end up tighting up the saleries.

    Yeah, I especially enjoyed the “it’s not personal” but then he says “maybe 1 or 2 very high volume guys throwing a temper tantrum”. I don’t have an issue with catering to the new players but to make the game less skillful is what bothers me. I wish there was a way we could get both but unfortunately FD is hurting it’s highest volume winners to make their game a rakefest.

    To Seth, the creation of a lineup in 10 minutes makes sense and I know this is true to some extent. I don’t know if it’s fair that the casual player should expect to win a decent amount vs a pro who’s spending 6-8 hours/day. Why should that casual guy get a boost vs someone who’s worked way harder? FWIW, I have a day job myself on top of my play. While it can certainly be frustrating to lose some nights where I don’t feel like I had enough time, that’s how it should be. Guys who work harder/are smarter should win most of the time. Why are we rewarding those people who work less hard?

  • smutpeddlers

    @realdeals said...

    That’s not what you said. You stated for a fact “FD Doesn’t care if high volume players stay or go.”

    You are correct and I think that I am wrong in that point when I rethink it. You are right they are banking in them not leaving l, which now makes me think back to my first point that they don’t really care what they say if they don’t change it back. Lol

    I would love to see an experiment where they took their money out and see what happens. If they change the pricing again I’m wrong. Anyone done this yet, pulled out?

  • petteytheft89

    • 19

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #17

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2019 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @Aurren said...

    Explain this to me please. And no, haven’t been satisfied with any posts in this thread to explain this theory up to this point.

    Aurren,

    I don’t think you will get an exact answer on this. I know if I explained it exactly myself, you’d be given a ton of information that just isn’t worth it to give. You’re asking me (or others) to explain to you how we get an edge vs other players. Again, I rarely posted here before this change no matter what other changes sites made. I’m not on this site just to complain about every pricing/whatever change is made. This is a real issue that affects me greatly. It really hurts the high stakes players. You’ve had a few of us come here and write to you that.

  • petteytheft89

    • 19

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #17

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2019 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @smutpeddlers said...

    You are correct and I think that I am wrong in that point when I rethink it. You are right they are banking in them not leaving l, which now makes me think back to my first point that they don’t really care what they say if they don’t change it back. Lol

    I would love to see an experiment where they took their money out and see what happens. If they change the pricing again I’m wrong. Anyone done this yet, pulled out?

    I was playing a very strong amount of action on FD everyday (in fact all of it) for the past 1-2 weeks and did not play yesterday and have no plans on playing today again. At the very least, the majority of my action will go to other sites.

  • realdeals

    @petteytheft89 said...

    Yeah, I especially enjoyed the “it’s not personal” but then he says “maybe 1 or 2 very high volume guys throwing a temper tantrum”. I don’t have an issue with catering to the new players but to make the game less skillful is what bothers me. I wish there was a way we could get both but unfortunately FD is hurting it’s highest volume winners to make their game a rakefest.

    To Seth, the creation of a lineup in 10 minutes makes sense and I know this is true to some extent. I don’t know if it’s fair that the casual player should expect to win a decent amount vs a pro who’s spending 6-8 hours/day. Why should that casual guy get a boost vs someone who’s worked way harder? FWIW, I have a day job myself on top of my play. While it can certainly be frustrating to lose some nights where I don’t feel like I had enough time, that’s how it should be. Guys who work harder/are smarter should win most of the time. Why are we rewarding those people who work less hard?

    I think they could do both. Lower the salary for cash games by 3k would do it.

  • mtgoanchorman

    My edge in the 30-80 man fields for the Slugger on FD was always that I was able to pick one of the discount pitchers of the night and when they got a win my lineup was way more stacked. Now with the new pricing it is worthless to take anyone but the top pitcher since the disparity in hitters isn’t much.

    Under the old pricing there is no way guys like Zack Cozart would be $2200. Min prices were always for guys who weren’t everyday players or were just awful and batted 8th or 9th in the lineup and were lucky to get on base in a night. Obviously Cozart is no stud, but when you can find guys under $2400 at every position who bat at the top of a lineup it makes any pitcher who isn’t a CGSO possibility (typically guys over $8000) worthless to take.

  • realdeals

    @smutpeddlers said...

    You are correct and I think that I am wrong in that point when I rethink it. You are right they are banking in them not leaving l, which now makes me think back to my first point that they don’t really care what they say if they don’t change it back. Lol

    I would love to see an experiment where they took their money out and see what happens. If they change the pricing again I’m wrong. Anyone done this yet, pulled out?

    Looks like a few have pulled out. Personally, I was just getting back into cash when pricing changed. I’m sure they don’t miss my daily 100-150 in cash. My plan is to ride out what I have in acnt on GPPs and see what happens over the next month.

  • bigstud2727

    @reztes757 said...

    You mean who you perceive to be the best pitcher tonight combined with a stack from a team that hasnt put up more than 5 runs in 10 days and you dont even have the player responsible for most of those runs

    Lol ok so you think people arn’t going to stack these dirt cheap mariners vs deduno while being able to take harvey or max…….yeah ok

  • Aurren

    @petteytheft89 said...

    Aurren,

    I don’t think you will get an exact answer on this. I know if I explained it exactly myself, you’d be given a ton of information that just isn’t worth it to give. You’re asking me (or others) to explain to you how we get an edge vs other players. Again, I rarely posted here before this change no matter what other changes sites made. I’m not on this site just to complain about every pricing/whatever change is made. This is a real issue that affects me greatly. It really hurts the high stakes players. You’ve had a few of us come here and write to you that.

    I definitely respect your experience. I’m not a high stakes MLB player so your experiences does speak volumes to me. However, T4MVP said “pricing has a huge impact on theoretical edge” so I’m sorry but your empirical data does very little to the theoretical discussion. Besides, does it say anything that other high stakes cash players aren’t talking in this thread. Can you really say all high stakes players are affected in a negative way?

    A change happened and you’ve lost your edge. Take a step back and objectively answer me this: can you get your edge back if the pricing stays the same and be profitable? I believe there are other high stakes players out there that will answer in the affirmative.

  • tatatouille

    @smutpeddlers said...

    2. The industry is expanding and I think like anything the pricing will tighten up, as someone else stated. The game will adapt and this complaining will all but be forgotten. If people were so skilled I think that the edge comes from the knowledge and research not the pricing.

    an elite blackjack card counter in the 80’s-90’s could make a ton when almost all blackjacks paid 3 to 2. Now change the blackjack to 6 to 5 or 1 to 1 and basically no one playing honestly can make money but the house. Try beating NBA totals paying -130. I think you’re underestimating how tough it is to beat high stakes 50/50s with soft pricing, high rake, and where 80% of pitchers and 90% of hitters are generally unplayable due to the salary structuring.

  • tatatouille

    @realdeals said...

    I think they could do both. Lower the salary for cash games by 3k would do it.

    If FD lowered $ to 32k then presumably they’d be annoying the rec players again. If they created alternative“low salary leagues” where the cap was 30-32k then I don’t see why the avg. rec would join those and abstain from playing more stud hitters/pitchers.

  • realdeals

    @tatatouille said...

    If FD lowered $ to 32k then presumably they’d be annoying the rec players again. If they created alternative“low salary leagues” where the cap was 30-32k then I don’t see why the avg. rec would join those and abstain from playing more stud hitters/pitchers.

    You might be right. Maybe do beginner cash games for 35K then when you reach 100 wins or whatever the mark you must do 32K cash games. Who wants to play cash games when Col is at home with soft pricing? The overlap is going to be disgusting.

  • sethayates

    @bigstud2727 said...

    Seems simple to able to build a lineup WITH the top pitcher of the night

    PM. Harvey WAS@NYM $10,300
    CS. Vogt OAK@TEX $3,100

    1BC. Santana TOR@CLE $3,400

    2BR. Cano SEA@HOU $3,500

    3BK. Seager SEA@HOU $3,000

    SSM. Aviles TOR@CLE $2,400

    OFS. Smith SEA@HOU $2,400

    OFA. Jackson SEA@HOU $2,400

    OFH. Ramirez NYY@BOS $4,400

    How much do you love this lineup? The exact same lineup fits on DK with Chris Heston as the SP2. I may or not have thrown it in the moonshot lol.

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