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  • LegiaWwa

    http://deadspin.com/fanduel-told-employees-not-to-win-too-much-money-on-dra-1743814536

  • donnybasbl

    Deadspin is clearly slanted, but saying they are the reason for all the scrutiny is silly. I have posted positive things about the sites (including a post I started about FD yesterday), so i’m not someone with an axe to grind. As someone who is slightly older than the DFS demographic and as someone who has been in the corporate world for over 27 years, here are my brief takeaways:

    1) The sites shot themselves in the feet with the relentless and ridiculous pie in the sky advertising. It got to the point where I stopped wearing my DK hat and shirts because it became embarrassing. If you don’t think this brought unwanted attention to the industry, you’re kidding yourself. I think most would agree with this point.

    2) The mass multi entry and the way it’s been handled is a disaster. Please, please, please don’t tell me it’s a good thing when DFS “Pros” have 200 entries in a $0.25 buy in tournament. Just stop. It’s greedy and I don’t know how those guys look at themselves in the mirror every morning. You know those dozens of class action lawsuits filed by “the little guys”? You don’t think those are disgruntled players who get pissed when they post a good score and don’t cash because some guy has a 75 team train that nudges them below the cash line? Get real…… Whether those lawsuits are successful or not, it’s a huge black eye to the industry and has drawn unwanted attention.

    3) The Ethan thing was the tipping point. His friends can passionately and relentlessly defend him all they want, but if I did something like that at my company, I would have been terminated immediately. He can be 100% innocent in all this, but it was a grave mistake and was the ulitmate trigger for all of this. In the business world you can’t publicly attract legal and ethical scrutiny to your company and expect to retain your job.

    Going back to number 2, i’m a big boy and can handle my wins and losses. I can easily just stop playing if I want. We all have that right. But for people to continue to pretend that the perception of “preying on the weak and stupid (like Fredo)” created by some of the pros (clearly not all of them), isn’t casuing a lot of this, is just nonsense.

  • NCRick

    The rules are pretty vague and poorly written. Not malicious, just incompetent imo. Then again, what do you expect from a bunch of 22 year olds biding their time until friday at 5pm..

  • AtGame7

    @donnybasbl said...

    3) The Ethan thing was the tipping point. His friends can passionately and relentlessly defend him all they want, but if I did something like that at my company, I would have been terminated immediately. He can be 100% innocent in all this, but it was a grave mistake and was the ulitmate trigger for all of this. In the business world you can’t publicly attract legal and ethical scrutiny to your company and expect to retain your job.

    Going back to number 2, i’m a big boy and can handle my wins and losses. I can easily just stop playing if I want. We all have that right. But for people to continue to pretend that the perception of “preying on the weak and stupid (like Fredo)” created by some of the pros (clearly not all of them), isn’t casuing a lot of this, is just nonsense.

    Your entire post is one of the best I have seen on the subject so far, but the quoted part needs more discussion among the masses if the industry is going to tip into regulation and reality.

    Your point about it being Ethan and not you is so accurate it should make people’s heads snap, but is sadly doesn’t and that is the real problem.

    Too many people, and unfortunately a lot of the larger/better known players are at fault here. They simply want to protect what they have and protect their friends yet if the people handling their 401K acted the same way they would be crying for federal intervention.

    The good news is DFS must be a great product to survive and grow to the level is has despite the massive level of incompetence it’s been ran by. The first one between FD/DK or even Yahoo to admit they need someone to run the business for them and hire that person will be the one to probably survive and own the industry.

    Like you, I’ve worked for corporate America for a long time now and I understand big companies make mistakes and have problems but people need to understand they aren’t to this level.

    In any event, great post.

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @donnybasbl said...

    The mass multi entry and the way it’s been handled is a disaster. Please, please, please don’t tell me it’s a good thing when DFS “Pros” have 200 entries in a $0.25 buy in tournament. Just stop. It’s greedy and I don’t know how those guys look at themselves in the mirror every morning.

    Well said on all points. The pros who insist on swamping low stakes games are no different than the people who hoard items on Black Friday to resell them, thus making things hard on people who are out there just trying to save a few bucks to give their kids a good Christmas.

  • bobbyrogers46

    @madmanjayWV said...

    someone who is smarter than me — here’s looking at U CAL

    please explain to me “they pulled the feeds b/c they have to look at themselves as regulated companies.”

    I RISK MY $$$ on THEIR GAME (FD/DK, etc.) — THE GAME IS FINAL, el fin, the end..FINISHED..how does a contest that I ENTERED, that is FINISHED, have anything to do with this? How can there be any privacy ISSUE on a contest that is already OVER WITH?

    One would think FD/DK believe THEY OWN THE RESULTS of the tournament, exclusively, that we the people who keep them in business are playing in.

    I would assume they need not expose anymore winners of contest to the public to avoid any further scrutiny. For instance, if they have changed their rules since EthanGate, in which no opposing site employees can play on their site. How exactly are they going to handle all the satellites ($12 Million Qualifier Seats) in which had already been won by those very employees like Ethan from opposing sites. They used to show us each year whom won those seats, highlight the players and even interview them. Now, we don’t even have a list of whom they are. They have had to somehow rework the rules to this contest, probably paid those winnings to those seat winners and are offering up new ones for non opposing site employees to win. Due to the changes of this issue, I am sure they had to pull feeds and try to keep things about the changes on the down low.

  • dude_abides7

    @Motovin said...

    Yes but they are the ones amplifying the damage. Go read through the comments on all their DFS articles, there isn’t one single positive thing said.

    They also started their crusade against DFS well before the “scandal” broke out. So yeah, I believe they’ve done the most damage.

    As I stated, I agree Deadspin is by no means neutral on this subject. That said, their effect is marginal at best compared to the real damage the sites have done by ignoring real concerns (while they were being brought to their attention) or just by being simply inept.

    The ‘Deadspin effect’ represents a 18 foot Bayliner filled with oil on the ocean. Sure, dumping its tanks is not cool, but the NET effect is not even measurable taken into account the shear size of the ocean.

    I try to see both sides of situations, but when are some of you gonna realize that the reason DFS is in turmoil, distress and possible ruin is because of self imposed damage and not that of meddling States and politicians?

    Everything that concerned DFS’ers said for 2 solid years was gonna happen…happened. If they cared enough to listen to their loyal fan/user base (outside of a small % that produced the most rake) then none of us would be in this situation right now.

    Regarding this policy article – Everyone would have lampooned it. It may be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

  • donnybasbl

    To just expand on my previous post a bit……

    Putting aside what I said in my last post, to me this is a money grab by the state of NY, plain and simple. Someone created a little spreadsheet at the AG’s office and red sirens started going off like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

    If this were about consumer protection, the NY AG would have done what Massachusetts did, which was clearly bent toward protecting the consumer and developing regulation, whether you agree with all the rules or not.

    My post was to point out the issues that shined a 5,000 watt light on the industry before the AG had his accounting minions even calculate how much money NY is “not getting”.

    FanDuel and Draft Kings have treated me exceptionally well as a customer. I have received withdrawals quickly, I have had nothing but good experiences with customer support and the list goes on and on.

    I currently work at a company that has grown exponentially over the past few years and the constant challenge is trying to keep up with the growth from an administrative and compliance standpoint. We’ve managed, but we haven’t grown at even close to the rate these two companies have and we have a number of people like myself who have spent more than half of our lives working in finance, administration and compliance. Hopefully, FD and DK survive all of this because I think if they come out on the other side, they are likely both already doing what they need to do to get to the right place to handle the scrutiny and regulation that will follow.

  • Mattg45

    @donnybasbl said...

    To just expand on my previous post a bit……

    Putting aside what I said in my last post, to me this is a money grab by the state of NY, plain and simple. Someone created a little spreadsheet at the AG’s office and red sirens started going off like in a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

    If this were about consumer protection, the NY AG would have done what Massachusetts did, which was clearly bent toward protecting the consumer and developing regulation, whether you agree with all the rules or not.

    My post was to point out the issues that shined a 5,000 watt light on the industry before the AG had his accounting minions even calculate how much money NY is “not getting”.

    FanDuel and Draft Kings have treated me exceptionally well as a customer. I have received withdrawals quickly, I have had nothing but good experiences with customer support and the list goes on and on.

    I currently work at a company that has grown exponentially over the past few years and the constant challenge is trying to keep up with the growth from an administrative and compliance standpoint. We’ve managed, but we haven’t grown at even close to the rate these two companies have and we have a number of people like myself who have spent more than half of our lives working in finance, administration and compliance. Hopefully, FD and DK survive all of this because I think if they come out on the other side, they are likely both already doing what they need to do to get to the right place to handle the scrutiny and regulation that will follow.

    Of course it’s a money grab, and then writing an editorial to get people on his side. C’mon the more information that gets uncovered the worse schneiderman looks. He says it’s gambling, but federal law says it’s a game of skill. Reguardless of what his or anyone else’s bias is the fact of the matter is a laws passed in 2006 on daily fantasy calling it a game of skill and is not gambling period. But schneiderman has to argue that it’s gambling to the judge, and fd/dk get to defend that point. Wasting a dime of taxpayer money on an investigation is a joke. Not to mention all the taxes they lose on new York residents winnings. When this is all done he needs to investigate online bingo, since it’s gambling

  • Mattg45

    His argument about the employees playing on rival sites I mean the only advantage they get is seeing player ownership percentage and anyone can play a few bucks on a Thursday tourney to see ownership. Or they could google it for free. I mean this is lame.

  • tyrant1014

    However, one thing we do have to realize. While we do trust this industry, this policy from the outside does make it appear as though something hinky is going on.

  • tclii85

  • bobbyrogers46

    @tyrant1014 said...

    However, one thing we do have to realize. While we do trust this industry, this policy from the outside does make it appear as though something hinky is going on.

    Trust is a strong word.

  • Putz

    @AtGame7 said...

    Too many people, and unfortunately a lot of the larger/better known players are at fault here. They simply want to protect what they have and protect their friends yet if the people handling their 401K acted the same way they would be crying for federal intervention.

    Interesting point.

  • tyrant1014

    @bobbyrogers46 said...

    Trust is a strong word.

    Good point… Let me rephrase, replace trust with “have some faith.”

    “However, one thing we do have to realize. While we do have some faith in this industry, this policy from the outside does make it appear as though something hinky is going on.”

  • Gotembaseball

    @tclii85 said...

    Ironically, to me at least, this proves the skill aspect. I interpret this as “don’t beat the hell out of the people who are completely clueless, they won’t be able to accept how much better than them you are”

    OMG REALLY? Are you seriously that clueless? How much skill does it take for a FD employee to look at the top players lineups and build lineups based on who the top players are playing. I’ll tell you. It takes zero skill to copy LUs and such.

  • depalma13

    @Mattg45 said...

    but federal law says it’s a game of skill

    There is no Federal law that says DFS is a game of skill.

  • depalma13

    @tclii85 said...

    Ironically, to me at least, this proves the skill aspect. I interpret this as “don’t beat the hell out of the people who are completely clueless, they won’t be able to accept how much better than them you are”

    WOW! You think that is why they had this policy?

  • Putz

    @tclii85 said...

    Ironically, to me at least, this proves the skill aspect. I interpret this as “don’t beat the hell out of the people who are completely clueless, they won’t be able to accept how much better than them you are”

    I don’t think it supports that argument at all. It shows people with sensitive information, such as access to top players rosters, %, etc., have or are perceived to have an advantage over others.

  • AtGame7

    @tclii85 said...

    Ironically, to me at least, this proves the skill aspect. I interpret this as “don’t beat the hell out of the people who are completely clueless, they won’t be able to accept how much better than them you are”

    Just so wrong. The use of inside information is so valuable it’s the reason it’s not allowed on Wall Street. Imagine if I knew tomorrow’s announcement of earnings for a company were going to be much less than projected? Short city, baby.

    Same applies to DFS. Give me access to Max’s, BW’s, Condia’s and CSURams88’s lineups and my research is done and I’m depositing the limit.

  • MRCOOKONUTS

    I dont mind Deadspin having any bias,as long as their reporting is truthful and we are privy to information we might not be able to read anywhere else.DFS industry practices have given Deadspin all the fodder they need,so unfortunately they take advantage of their ammunition to print the negatives….
    Practices and policies by management and some employees have put this industry knee deep in a pile of cow doo doo.DFS industry needs a good cleansing to get the stink out…..

  • Mattg45

    @depalma13 said...

    There is no Federal law that says DFS is a game of skill.

    There is George W Bush signed the unlawful gaming act in 2006 against Internet gambling. Daily fantasy was the exemption calling it a game of skill in the bill.

  • QQSTUKIE

    When is Ethan going to “leak” the DK policy to deadspin?

  • baywood99

    These so called “pro’s” dont’ seem to do very well on sites outside of FD/DK- I would say they won’t do very well on the single entries either. People need to open there eyes. The criminal probe will weed this all out. Draftkings and Fanduel have no chance for survival. They have lost the trust of the public and the major leagues will not even step foot next to them. Mark it down.

  • carney259

    • 317

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    • Ranked #52

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    @Mattg45 said...

    There is George W Bush signed the unlawful gaming act in 2006 against Internet gambling. Daily fantasy was the exemption calling it a game of skill in the bill.

    No. The UIGEA carves out an exception for fantasy sports, not for DFS. And while it contemplates that fantasy sports may involve skill, nowhere does it declare all fantasy sports games of skill.

  • bobbyrogers46

    @Mattg45 said...

    There is George W Bush signed the unlawful gaming act in 2006 against Internet gambling. Daily fantasy was the exemption calling it a game of skill in the bill.

    Wrong, you have let the propaganda of the industry fool you. Research this all yourself. What George W. Bush thought he was signing was an avenue for terrorist to transfer funds to and from the American finacial system. It was all part of the Port Act. So he was attempting to close loopholes, all the while on the tail end of the act someone slipped in leaving room for betting on what was then known as Fantasy Sports in the sense of season long Fantasy football and other sports. Never once did George W. Bush foresee the potentail of companies to bend the rules of the bill he was signing and create daily fantasy sports to gamble with.

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