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  • mambaland

    http://newjersey.news12.com/story/39108476/man-says-fanduel-sportsbook-wont-pay-out-large-bet

  • bigez952

    @lfn1992 said...

    I call BS. It is NOT up to the punter to look at a 750-1 bet that he/she has a confirmation slip and then have to say, ‘does the book REALLY mean it?’” If it was up for 30 minutes, 5 seconds, 1 millisecond, truth is the punter locked it in at that price. The book screwed up? Tough!

    If I am going to look at a bet and have to ask, every time, “did they REALLY mean it, or is this a computer glitch that could be reneged at any time?”, why bet?

    If FD is too incompetent to have the right technology to handle this situation, they should close the book right now. The instinct should NOT be that poor, poor FD made a little, tiny mistake and should be given the benefit of the doubt. FD is providing a service that it will deliver its promises. When it doesn’t deliver a service it promises, it should be challenged.

    No one said it is up to the better to call out the sports book saying “this line isn’t right”. Yes everyone should pounce on that to try and take advantage of it but also shouldn’t be surprised if that bet gets voided.

    Let’s be honest in that every casino and sports book in the world has probably had a glitch or two at one time in their career. These events are extremely rare and and are not happening on an hourly basis. If you quit gambling due to a .1% a glitch or malfunction will void your play that’s your right to do so.

    Of course if these glitches are the norm and happen every single day they should get out of the business.

    Every casino I have ever been to posts “machine malfunction voids all pay” so if these things never happen and this is the first time in history a malfunction voided a pay it really wouldn’t make sense for everyone to post that disclaimer.

  • madmanjayWV

    @bigez952 said...

    If you don’t think there is something odd that your getting 750-1 odds on if a 30 yard FG is going to be made which is successfully on average in the league 95% of the time you probably shouldn’t be betting on sports. People with their pitch forks are taking things to the extreme in thinking that any bet can be reversed as an error which is simply not true. This line was off by over 4000 times what it was supposed to pay out so it is pretty tough to agree the line was ever good. It is not like the difference of a line being put out at -500 when it was supposed to be -450 which they would just pay without issue. This error here is the difference of $18 which was the correct payout vs. $82,000 due to the computer error. This line was also only available for 15 seconds so this guy probably didn’t even realize the odds were wrong until he saw his ticket.

    Why does everyone revert this to being a COMPUTER ERROR?

    Was this NOT A PERSON — an actual PERSON (ERROR) — why blame the computer?

    Is the computer generating everything with no HUMAN OVERSIGHT whatsoever?

    I’d expect that from FD tho, sadly — no need to have oversight…they don’t in DFS so I guess the same is good for NEW JERSEY as a “sports book”

    ALSO:

    “bigez952 said —- the fact it was only available for 15 seconds before it was corrected.”

    —- Please post your PROOF that this line was available for 15 seconds. Some other cat commented on the original article and said he “won” like $50+K that he is obviously not getting.

  • mtdurham

    @Dunzor said...

    I agree with everyone in the thread that says the regulators and terms of service will agree with FD….and yet I still think they will end up paying the guy because they are a brand new sportsbook and the public who do not know how sportsbooks typically work in this scenario will crucify them if they don’t find a good settlement with these folks

    I agree with the lawyer. This is a public relations nightmare for fanduel. $86,000 is a rounding error on their books compared to their cost to establish this line of business. Draftkings should run a mass marketing campaign that says “30 day signup promo, we are giving away cash prizes to new signups equal to the amount of bets that Fanduel renegs on, up to $250,000”

    Also I am now revising what I said previously. I believe the gambler in this case should hold out for $1,000, two tickets to ‘Hamilton’ on Broadway, an 18 inch replica model of Stonehenge, drink tickets, free soup/salad bar access for life, Buy One Get One Free Pretzel coupon, a helmet full of cream cheese, and backstage passes to Alice Cooper.

  • depalma13

    The rake at Fan Duel is high enough. If they pay these guys we are just going to foot the bill.

  • bigez952

    @madmanjayWV said...

    Why does everyone revert this to being a COMPUTER ERROR?

    Was this NOT A PERSON — an actual PERSON (ERROR) — why blame the computer?

    Is the computer generating everything with no HUMAN OVERSIGHT whatsoever?

    I’d expect that from FD tho, sadly — no need to have oversight…they don’t in DFS so I guess the same is good for NEW JERSEY as a “sports book”

    ALSO:

    “bigez952 said —- the fact it was only available for 15 seconds before it was corrected.”

    —- Please post your PROOF that this line was available for 15 seconds. Some other cat commented on the original article and said he “won” like $50+K that he is obviously not getting.

    I am on my phone so can’t post the link but google the ESPN article on this story. I just looked it up and was wrong that the line was up for only 15 seconds. It was actually available for 18 seconds before being corrected.

    I am guessing live lines like this are computer generated to speed up the process but do have human oversight as this one was caught and fixed in 18 seconds. If companies were forced to pay out glitches like this one my guess is most sports books would just stop offering live game bets as this stuff can happen when seconds matter and the live line is consistently changing as the game progresses. Humans could never keep up with 20-30 games with live lines so they have to rely on computers to keep up especially considering late scores/plays can drastically shift lines which betters try to take advantage of by getting bets in faster than the line can change.

  • Zieg30

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    Mistakes happen. No one has some universal right to take advantage of a mistake, whether done by a computer or a human.

    If a bank accidentally deposits extra money into your bank account, that’s not actually your money. Our laws don’t permit people to pounce on mistakes and say “GOTCHYA, NOW YOU CAN’T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT” because that’d simply be unfair. The same principles behind those laws applies to this situation.

    The fair situation here is for the better to get paid out the rough equivalent to what other sportsbooks were paying out at that time for that same bet. If it’s hard to determine what the exact line was at that time, then the better should get the benefit of the doubt and get the most advantageous line around that time, but that’s as far as this should go.

  • lfn1992

    @Zieg30 said...

    Mistakes happen. No one has some universal right to take advantage of a mistake, whether done by a computer or a human.

    If a bank accidentally deposits extra money into your bank account, that’s not actually your money. Our laws don’t permit people to pounce on mistakes and say “GOTCHYA, NOW YOU CAN’T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT” because that’d simply be unfair. The same principles behind those laws applies to this situation.

    The fair situation here is for the better to get paid out the rough equivalent to what other sportsbooks were paying out at that time for that same bet. If it’s hard to determine what the exact line was at that time, then the better should get the benefit of the doubt and get the most advantageous line around that time, but that’s as far as this should go.

    That’s not the same thing. An individual’s contract with the bank is that their money is safe. If the bank makes a mistake with the source of the check, the source of the check would rightly raise holy hell because the contract is between them and the bank and they would be incorrectly charged.

    The bet is a contract that the ticket holder gets X payout after paying Y if Z happens. If FD writes the ticket, the contract is made. If FD says it’s now paying Minnesota Wild tickets instead of Y, they are breaking the contract.

  • Jvanspro

    I’ve been seeing a lot of posts asking if Den didn’t make the FG would FD refund his money. I don’t get that argument and to me it doesn’t hold weight. The fact is no matter what the lines were if Den misses the FG it’s still a losing ticket. Nobody is arguing whether it’s a winning or losing ticket. We all know it’s a winning ticket. The argument is at what value. I don’t see this an 80K ticket.

    In fact, anything over $500 would be a huge win for the individual. The real value of that win is about 20 bucks.

  • Jvanspro

    @lfn1992 said...

    That’s not the same thing. An individual’s contract with the bank is that their money is safe. If the bank makes a mistake with the source of the check, the source of the check would rightly raise holy hell because the contract is between them and the bank and they would be incorrectly charged.

    The bet is a contract that the ticket holder gets X payout after paying Y if Z happens. If FD writes the ticket, the contract is made. If FD says it’s now paying Minnesota Wild tickets instead of Y, they are breaking the contract.

    This isn’t necessarily true. It clearly stats under FanDuels policy that “Fanduel sportsbook reserves the right to correct any obvious errors and to void any bets placed where such errors have occurred.” The real question is what does NJ law state? I don’t think anyone on these forums really has the answer to that question.

    To me, the books need to be protected against obvious errors just like the consumer needs protection. I don’t think FD owes this guy 80K.

  • emnj69

    it bugs me when people defend the computer glitch as acceptable -it is not-if they cant get it right they should not have in game betting -a person making the bet should not have to decide if the line they are considering is a computer glitch. Once a bet is placed the bettor should have 100% confidence the bet will be honored. If an individual experiences a “glitch” on their computer , you cant say oh no a mistake happened give me my money back-all bets are final and all line ups are final. There is no going back AFTER and saying no that is not what was supposed to happen. FD is one of the premiere names in daily and their entrance into the sportsbook community was eagerly awaited by many folks as a safe, legal way to bet sports. It was to take the uncertainty and risk out of dealing with bookies and offshore companies. This will continue to get more and more press. FD should have just paid them and moved on.

  • Pats7914

    • 74

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    • Ranked #98

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    @Jvanspro said...

    This isn’t necessarily true. It clearly stats under FanDuels policy that “Fanduel sportsbook reserves the right to correct any obvious errors and to void any bets placed where such errors have occurred.” The real question is what does NJ law state? I don’t think anyone on these forums really has the answer to that question.

    To me, the books need to be protected against obvious errors just like the consumer needs protection. I don’t think FD owes this guy 80K.

    NJ law states they can void the bet but that there’s a procedure to doing so. FD has to go through the NJ gaming commission to do so. They cant do it unilaterally.

  • wolfjb1

    This argument and people’s reasoning behind their positions on resolution is fascinating to me. I’m a lawyer. We learned in the first week of contracts class that “mistake” is an actual thing. As posted above, mistakes happen and our laws are set up so the beneficiary of a mistake isn’t allowed to take advantage of said mistake. It was an error. Determining who or what made the error and making sure it doesn’t happen again – and determining if FD gets sanctioned by the commission – is distinct from determining how to resolve this mistake. I would much prefer to be the lawyer for FD, as opposed to for the bettor. Mistakes happen. Period. That’s the argument.

  • Pats7914

    • 74

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #98

      RG Tiered Ranking

    Results: They had to pay all bets. Nice 82K payday for a short FG.

    This is why regulated companies need to know the laws and regulations.

  • KindGuy

    The man got paid as he should be! Nice!

    Congrats to him and the 11 others who will have their bets rightfully honored.

  • Pats7914

    • 74

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    • Ranked #98

      RG Tiered Ranking

    FD now knows next time, call the NJ gaming commission for palps. An expensive lesson.

  • emnj69

    glad guys got paid
    the smart move from day one was to pay them-the negative press and negative scrutiny was not in their best interest

    state gaming laws are the final authority on these type of issues so best to make sure policy matches. This is a new venture for NJ and I am sure there were lessons learned here.

  • dolphinkick182

    @emnj69 said...

    it bugs me when people defend the computer glitch as acceptable -it is not-if they cant get it right they should not have in game betting -a person making the bet should not have to decide if the line they are considering is a computer glitch. Once a bet is placed the bettor should have 100% confidence the bet will be honored. If an individual experiences a “glitch” on their computer , you cant say oh no a mistake happened give me my money back-all bets are final and all line ups are final. There is no going back AFTER and saying no that is not what was supposed to happen. FD is one of the premiere names in daily and their entrance into the sportsbook community was eagerly awaited by many folks as a safe, legal way to bet sports. It was to take the uncertainty and risk out of dealing with bookies and offshore companies. This will continue to get more and more press. FD should have just paid them and moved on.

    So had the field goal went wide right, would they have voided the ticket and gave all bets their money back because of their mistake? OR would they have thanked their lucky stars and kept the bets? You never hear of the glitch loss, only the glitch win that was a “mistake or unfair”. Dude should get his money, and those who feel differently have never had it happen. If it was you, no matter what the mistake, you’d think you won, Don’t lie.

  • dolphinkick182

    oh forget my last post, he got paid. As he should have. A bet is a bet.

  • tomac

    @mtdurham said...

    So if I said the courts/gaming commission ruled all operator errors as actionable bets…. and the sportsbooks moved all betting lines from -110 to -120… and shaved off futures (Example… Boston Celtics to win the title at 5:1 odds instead of 6:1 odds) in order to offset this liability you would have absolutely no problem with this? All so one lucky guy can collect $80,000, give half of it away in taxes…and blow the other $40k on vices like gambling, partying, or strip joints… you would have absolutely no problem with this?

    I see this type of ruling as protecting the 1 million little guys from price gouging…not the one little guy geting screwed for placing a bet on a line that was clearly without a doubt off by a magnitude of 45,000x

    In a region with much less gaseous pressure than atmospheric pressure your perspective makes sense. But alas, the world does not operate within said vaccum.

    Correct. I have no problem with that.

  • mambaland

    As said other casino books said they would pay out..it says check all tickets before leaving window..same goes for the other side of window..if a person off the street should be able to spot a mistake so should an employer…to argue every person who can now place a bet for the first time in their life should know all odds and payouts is absurd..oh and as harvey levin says :i’m a lawyer

  • mambaland

    @tomac said...

    So if I said the courts/gaming commission ruled all operator errors as actionable bets…. and the sportsbooks moved all betting lines from -110 to -120… and shaved off futures (Example… Boston Celtics to win the title at 5:1 odds instead of 6:1 odds) in order to offset this liability you would have absolutely no problem with this? All so one lucky guy can collect $80,000, give half of it away in taxes…and blow the other $40k on vices like gambling, partying, or strip joints… you would have absolutely no problem with this?

    I see this type of ruling as protecting the 1 million little guys from price gouging…not the one little guy geting screwed for placing a bet on a line that was clearly without a doubt off by a magnitude of 45,000x

    In a region with much less gaseous pressure than atmospheric pressure your perspective makes sense. But alas, the world does not operate within said vaccum.

    yep..only problem i have is the taxes….peeps been getting screwed by so called flaws for too long

  • timusbr

    I just played live sports betting on Sunday Night Football. Its incredibly fast paced. You have seconds to see the line and evaluate if you wish to play. Then seconds for the bet to process. I lost several bets because I took to much time.
    I would go out on a limb and say…the bet wasn’t taken down by a person but by the computer itself when it added up the amount bet. In all these bets the line can change almost immediately. I am pretty sure that is what happened in 18 seconds.

    The better questions that I would like to find out answers on …How did the computer spit out the outrageous odds? Who was the programming experts that had access to the code. Inside Job with only a few seconds window. LOL sounds like the movie the Sting.

    someone said that everyone got paid..LOL what about the people that took the original FD offers of comps and a small amount of money?

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