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  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    Effective May 1st, 2016, Texas residents will no longer be allowed to play paid games. This is certainly a difficult pill to swallow. This was the email that I received:

    Dear Texas Fans:

    We have some important news to share regarding our contests for users in Texas. As you may know, fantasy sports was founded in Texas more than four decades ago. In 2009, FanDuel was formed at Austin’s SXSW Interactive Festival, paving the way for millions of sports fans to play fantasy in a whole new way. We are proud of the business we’ve built and our ability to innovate fantasy sports and create a new product that fans love.

    We believe FanDuel has always been legal in Texas and strongly disagree with the recent advisory opinion of the Attorney General, but understand that the laws surrounding fantasy sports require clarity. As such, we have worked with the Texas Attorney General to map out our plan to wind down our operations in Texas, suspending paid contests on May 1st. The Texas legislature will be in session in 2017 and we will work to pass legislation that protects fantasy sports and consumers so that we can bring our paid contests back to Texans as soon as possible.

    In the meantime:

    - Users will still be able to participate in free head to head challenges and leagues after May 1st.

    - As has always been the case, users in Texas can withdraw their funds at anytime. Users can also play FanDuel when visiting other states in which FanDuel continues to operate paid-contests.

    Please follow us at www.FantasySportsForAll.com and let your lawmakers know that you support fantasy sports. We have more than 20+ bills in state legislatures across the country that safeguard fantasy sports and provide consumer protections. It is our intent to work with the Texas legislature to pass a similar bill in 2017, when back in session. Your support will help ensure that all fantasy companies are able to continue to operate in Texas.

    Thank you for your support,

    FanDuel

  • stoptheinsanity

    @BreakingBacon said...

    No more DFS in Texas? Well guess it’s time to start stalking people in the woods again with nothing to do.

  • thehammer74

    I understand it sucks that this happens, but I do not get why some people are completely up in arms as if they never thought this could happen. What we are all doing is gambling whether you want to admit it or not. If it makes you sleep better at night to not think of yourself as a degenerate gambler or to tell your spouses and family that you don’t gamble, you are living a lie. When you intentionally risk money on something with an unexpected outcome with the chance to lose, that is by definition “gambling”. Just because you are wagering on the outcomes of specific players instead of on the actual game itself does not make it a “game of skill”. Yes, there is skill involved in DFS…but there is also skill in blackjack and poker. Both of those are considered gambling because they are “games of chance” even though skill is involved.

    As much as I want it to be legal everywhere, I understand that gambling is illegal in most areas and as such, it is only a matter of time before other states get shut down. There’s too much gray area and until the laws change and there is regulation (we hope!), you can expect more of this. If FD or DK shut down in my state I’d have no reason to target the AG or be angry at FD/DK. Heck, I feel lucky to have gotten away with gambling on DFS as long as I have…

  • lewper

    Well my wife will be happy…

  • PJGuin23

    DFS Tax Guru

    @lewper said...

    Well my wife will be happy…

    Mine was drooling over the proposed PA legislation last Fall and eating up camera whore Schneiderman’s crap.

    Point is we see this thru rose colored goggles. Everyone else sees this as Gambling and needs severe regulation or flat out banned. Only Millenial Males are in favor in the court of public opinion. Women of all generations are opposed, worse amongst Xers and Boomers. My wife and I are on the X-Millenial border. She sees this as no different than than the lottery or craps and should be treated as such.

  • birn

    Disagree 100%. The law as written is not clear at all and the AG’s opinion is not binding in any way, shape or form. The AG would have to bring a lawsuit against the DFS companies and have the courts decide whether his opinion is correct. DK is choosing a proactive approach and will be filling a declaratory action in a Texas court to have a judge decide. This forces the AG to try and argue his position in front of a judge and courtroom picked by DK. Trust me, there are many judges in Texas that absolutely despise this AG. DK will definitely be forum shopping for the most favorable judge. Once the AG loses the declaratory judgment, he would have to pursue his case on appeal which would be unlikely he pursues because then he would have to justify to voters in Texas that he’s making good use of taxpayer money to fight DFS in Texas. This is a smart and coordinated approach by FD and DK to ensure that DFS remains viable in Texas. DK is pursuing the courtroom approach to get a favorable ruling and FD is doing the lobbying and legislative work to ensure that laws are written in a way that preserves the rights of citizens to participate in DFS activities.

  • deactivated84892

    @birn said...

    Disagree 100%. The law as written is not clear at all and the AG’s opinion is not binding in any way, shape or form. The AG would have to bring a lawsuit against the DFS companies and have the courts decide whether his opinion is correct. DK is choosing a proactive approach and will be filling a declaratory action in a Texas court to have a judge decide. This forces the AG to try and argue his position in front of a judge and courtroom picked by DK. Trust me, there are many judges in Texas that absolutely despise this AG. DK will definitely be forum shopping for the most favorable judge. Once the AG loses the declaratory judgment, he would have to pursue his case on appeal which would be unlikely he pursues because then he would have to justify to voters in Texas that he’s making good use of taxpayer money to fight DFS in Texas. This is a smart and coordinated approach by FD and DK to ensure that DFS remains viable in Texas. DK is pursuing the courtroom approach to get a favorable ruling and FD is doing the lobbying and legislative work to ensure that laws are written in a way that preserves the rights of citizens to participate in DFS activities.

    This may be the best post I’ve seen posted in this forum ever.

    Excellent job explaining the process.

  • frugal

    @thehammer74 said...

    I understand it sucks that this happens, but I do not get why some people are completely up in arms as if they never thought this could happen. What we are all doing is gambling whether you want to admit it or not. If it makes you sleep better at night to not think of yourself as a degenerate gambler or to tell your spouses and family that you don’t gamble, you are living a lie. When you intentionally risk money on something with an unexpected outcome with the chance to lose, that is by definition “gambling”. Just because you are wagering on the outcomes of specific players instead of on the actual game itself does not make it a “game of skill”. Yes, there is skill involved in DFS…but there is also skill in blackjack and poker. Both of those are considered gambling because they are “games of chance” even though skill is involved.

    As much as I want it to be legal everywhere, I understand that gambling is illegal in most areas and as such, it is only a matter of time before other states get shut down. There’s too much gray area and until the laws change and there is regulation (we hope!), you can expect more of this. If FD or DK shut down in my state I’d have no reason to target the AG or be angry at FD/DK. Heck, I feel lucky to have gotten away with gambling on DFS as long as I have…

    While there is a gambling aspect, I feel DFS is no different than season long fantasy which the AG has no issues with. And this is coming from and AG in a state with a lottery, horse racing, and dog racing. In fact, his position came from the lottery wanting to expand into DFS. IMHO thia comes from wanting it regulated (taxed).

  • thehammer74

    @frugal said...

    While there is a gambling aspect, I feel DFS is no different than season long fantasy which the AG has no issues with. And this is coming from and AG in a state with a lottery, horse racing, and dog racing. In fact, his position came from the lottery wanting to expand into DFS. IMHO thia comes from wanting it regulated (taxed).

    I respect your opinion although I will have to disagree…and I will tell you what I think the difference is. In season long formats, you are paying a ONE-TIME fee upfront for the entire season (unless your league requires payments for waiver wire and trade transactions, etc), whereas DFS requires wagering money EVERY SINGLE DAY you play, which generally equates to an extremely higher volume of bets and sums of money over time.

    DFS has ruined my ex-brother in law’s life. First, he abandoned his friends to constantly research and create lineups while alienating his own wife and children (which he now admits to but wouldn’t for over a year). He got terminated from a career as an investment adviser for lack of production and breaking company policy because he was constantly on the computer working on DFS. He said he played every single day. When they blocked the computers by a program he said was called Websense, he found ways around it using proxy sites. He claimed his smartphone alone wasn’t enough and that he felt he needed a desktop to do everything he wanted. Subsequently, his wife left him and took his two children and he still has almost no relationship with them anymore. He is now divorced, broke, had to do a short sale on his home, and is two weeks away from his “meeting of creditors” in his bankruptcy journey. He was a fraternity brother jock who had always liked his beer since his college days, but now he is drunk every time we see him or talk to him on the phone and is always talking about how “well” he is doing now that he is divorced. He doesn’t want to go anywhere unless there is alcohol involved. It is strange how he thinks he is doing well when he lives at a poverty level and his own family and friends want nothing to do with him anymore. He couldn’t even stay sober long enough to make it through a damn week when he was fortunate enough to find another job as an investment adviser three months ago. Obviously, alcoholism is a huge problem in his life now. Alcoholism was not present at the time he was addicted to DFS, so we cannot blame that as the initiator of his wrecked life, but more of an after effect.

    His problems are not things that I’ve ever heard of with anyone that solely plays season long leagues. I know there are other people in similar situations even though they aren’t all this bad of course. He has played in season long leagues with no problems starting back when everyone played with only paper, pen, calculator, and the newspaper. I bet that anyone who would try to tell his family, friends, ex wife, children, or anyone else that knows him, that DFS isn’t gambling or is no different than playing season long leagues, will probably get looked at with anger, disgust, and perhaps even tears.

    Is it his own fault? Absolutely. But I cannot fathom any argument that would say he wasn’t gambling.

  • PJGuin23

    DFS Tax Guru

    @thehammer74 said...

    I respect your opinion although I will have to disagree…and I will tell you what I think the difference is. In season long formats, you are paying a ONE TIME fee upfront for the entire season (unless your league requires payments for waiver wire and trade transactions, etc), whereas DFS requires wagering money EVERY SINGLE DAY you play, which generally equates to an extremely higher volume of bets and sums of money over time.

    DFS has ruined my ex-brother in law’s life. First, he abandoned his friends to constantly research and create lineups while alienating his own wife and children (which he now admits to but wouldn’t for over a year). He got terminated from a career as an investment adviser for lack of production and breaking company policy because he was constantly on the computer working on DFS. He said he played every single day. When they blocked the computers by a program he said was called Websense, he found ways around it using proxy sites. He claimed his smartphone alone wasn’t enough and that he felt he needed a desktop to do everything he wanted. Subsequently, his wife left him and took his two children and he still has almost no relationship with them anymore. He is now divorced, broke, had to do a short sale on his home, and is two weeks away from his “meeting of creditors” in his bankruptcy journey. He was a fraternity brother jock who had always liked his beer since his college days, but now he is drunk every time we see him or talk to him on the phone and is always talking about how “well” he is doing now that he is divorced. He doesn’t want to go anywhere unless there is alcohol involved. It is strange how he thinks he is doing well when he lives at a poverty level and his own family and friends want nothing to do with him anymore. He couldn’t even stay sober long enough to make it through a damn week when he was fortunate enough to find another job as an investment adviser three months ago. Obviously, alcoholism is a huge problem in his life now. Alcoholism was not present at the time he was addicted to DFS, so we cannot blame that as the initiator of his wrecked life, but more of an after effect.

    His problems are not things that I’ve ever heard of with anyone that solely plays season long leagues. I know there are other people in similar situations even though they aren’t all this bad of course. He has played in season long leagues with no problems starting back when everyone played with only paper, pen, calculator, and the newspaper. I bet that anyone who would try to tell his family, friends, ex wife, children, or anyone else that knows him, that DFS isn’t gambling or is no different than playing season long leagues, will probably get looked at with anger, disgust, and perhaps even tears.

    Is it his own fault? Absolutely. But I cannot fathom any argument that would say he wasn’t gambling.

    This could also happen for excessive lottery players and casino gamblers as well. An addictive personality is an addictive personality. The problems have to be dealt with a counselor regardless of whether it is DFS or excessive Pepsi drinking. Ban DFS because of a few stories? No. Same could happen in season long especially multiple or high stakes leagues. Technically DFS is more skill due to salary cap drafts vs snake drafts. Volume of monies and play are irrelevant. Also a bad choice at a Hooters in August can haunt you till December. No such roping a player around your neck with DFS. With season long you could have nitwit Jane from HR get lucky and still cash yet never touched the waiver wire.

    I’m sorry for your brother in law and family. And I know people with bad addictions to alcohol and gambling. But it shouldn’t be ruined for the rest of us. Some people are also reacting far too harshly to DFS and the media is feeding that troll.

  • ballabal

    To the Thehammer74:
    I am sorry about your brother in law. However. people with addictions will gamble no matter what. My brother’s ex-neighbor got into day trading on the stock market a little too much and it messed up his marriage. Other people play the lottery way too much. My relatives used to have big poker games. Your brother in law needs professional help. It it was not DFS then it would be something else.
    Like anything else, you have to know your limits. Many things have elements of chance that you will lose. Just look at the stock market the first 2 months of the year. Are they going to ban day trading, futures and Forex trading too?

  • thehammer74

    @PJGuin23 said...

    This could also happen for excessive lottery players and casino gamblers as well. An addictive personality is an addictive personality. The problems have to be dealt with a counselor regardless of whether it is DFS or excessive Pepsi drinking. Ban DFS because of a few stories? No. Same could happen in season long especially multiple or high stakes leagues. Technically DFS is more skill due to salary cap drafts vs snake drafts. Volume of monies and play are irrelevant. Also a bad choice at a Hooters in August can haunt you till December. No such roping a player around your neck with DFS. With season long you could have nitwit Jane from HR get lucky and still cash yet never touched the waiver wire.

    I’m sorry for your brother in law and family. And I know people with bad addictions to alcohol and gambling. But it shouldn’t be ruined for the rest of us. Some people are also reacting far too harshly to DFS and the media is feeding that troll.

    Thank for being empathetic about him. I agree that it should not be ruined for the rest of us and I certainly don’t want it banned! I play DFS daily on several sites under different names.

  • thehammer74

    @PJGuin23 said...

    This could also happen for excessive lottery players and casino gamblers as well. An addictive personality is an addictive personality. The problems have to be dealt with a counselor regardless of whether it is DFS or excessive Pepsi drinking. Ban DFS because of a few stories? No. Same could happen in season long especially multiple or high stakes leagues. Technically DFS is more skill due to salary cap drafts vs snake drafts. Volume of monies and play are irrelevant. Also a bad choice at a Hooters in August can haunt you till December. No such roping a player around your neck with DFS. With season long you could have nitwit Jane from HR get lucky and still cash yet never touched the waiver wire.

    I’m sorry for your brother in law and family. And I know people with bad addictions to alcohol and gambling. But it shouldn’t be ruined for the rest of us. Some people are also reacting far too harshly to DFS and the media is feeding that troll.

    My point wasn’t that DFS is evil at all. I understand people can get addicted to just about anything and that it isn’t DFS’s fault that my ex brother-in-law is where he is in life. I just want people to consider the possibility that DFS might just be a form of gambling. That does not mean I want it banned any more than I want a lottery ticket or Texas Hold’em banned, but I do want it regulated! There are people who let DFS consume their lives and cost them everything they have. I wish instead they would accept they have a gambling problem rather than trying to say that losing tens of thousands of dollars on DFS isn’t gambling because it’s “DFS”, like he did. His denial ruined his life. It’s really difficult and disturbing to watch someone go through this first hand :(

  • deactivated84892

    @thehammer74 said...

    DFS has ruined my ex-brother in law’s life. First, he abandoned his friends to constantly research and create lineups while alienating his own wife and children (which he now admits to but wouldn’t for over a year). He got terminated from a career as an investment adviser for lack of production and breaking company policy because he was constantly on the computer working on DFS. He said he played every single day. When they blocked the computers by a program he said was called Websense, he found ways around it using proxy sites. He claimed his smartphone alone wasn’t enough and that he felt he needed a desktop to do everything he wanted. Subsequently, his wife left him and took his two children and he still has almost no relationship with them anymore. He is now divorced, broke, had to do a short sale on his home, and is two weeks away from his “meeting of creditors” in his bankruptcy journey. He was a fraternity brother jock who had always liked his beer since his college days, but now he is drunk every time we see him or talk to him on the phone and is always talking about how “well” he is doing now that he is divorced. He doesn’t want to go anywhere unless there is alcohol involved. It is strange how he thinks he is doing well when he lives at a poverty level and his own family and friends want nothing to do with him anymore. He couldn’t even stay sober long enough to make it through a damn week when he was fortunate enough to find another job as an investment adviser three months ago. Obviously, alcoholism is a huge problem in his life now. Alcoholism was not present at the time he was addicted to DFS, so we cannot blame that as the initiator of his wrecked life, but more of an after effect.

    Literally none of this is the fault of DFS and all the fault of him not being a responsible human being. It’s also coming from a third party source and not the mouth.

    You just blamed a ruined marriage, broken family and alcoholism on DFS. This is the type of nonsense argument that these asinine AG’s think is the norm and not basket case solitary situations with no outliers.

    I can plug and play this entire scenario with Alcohol, Lottery Tickets, Casino’s, Video Games, Porn, Food, and even season long fantasy etc …. And yet all of those are legal.

    I’m sorry for your brother-in-law’s situation. This is an extremely narrow third party view of a situation of which I’m almost certain has many other problems deep rooted. I refuse to believe DFS turned a white-picket fence family into a broken home.

    99.99% of people shouldn’t be forced to enjoy their life because an extreme minority is out of their league and irresponsible.

  • geardaddy

    @thehammer74 said...

    I respect your opinion although I will have to disagree…and I will tell you what I think the difference is. In season long formats, you are paying a ONE-TIME fee upfront for the entire season (unless your league requires payments for waiver wire and trade transactions, etc), whereas DFS requires wagering money EVERY SINGLE DAY you play, which generally equates to an extremely higher volume of bets and sums of money over time.

    DFS has ruined my ex-brother in law’s life. First, he abandoned his friends to constantly research and create lineups while alienating his own wife and children (which he now admits to but wouldn’t for over a year). He got terminated from a career as an investment adviser for lack of production and breaking company policy because he was constantly on the computer working on DFS. He said he played every single day. When they blocked the computers by a program he said was called Websense, he found ways around it using proxy sites. He claimed his smartphone alone wasn’t enough and that he felt he needed a desktop to do everything he wanted. Subsequently, his wife left him and took his two children and he still has almost no relationship with them anymore. He is now divorced, broke, had to do a short sale on his home, and is two weeks away from his “meeting of creditors” in his bankruptcy journey. He was a fraternity brother jock who had always liked his beer since his college days, but now he is drunk every time we see him or talk to him on the phone and is always talking about how “well” he is doing now that he is divorced. He doesn’t want to go anywhere unless there is alcohol involved. It is strange how he thinks he is doing well when he lives at a poverty level and his own family and friends want nothing to do with him anymore. He couldn’t even stay sober long enough to make it through a damn week when he was fortunate enough to find another job as an investment adviser three months ago. Obviously, alcoholism is a huge problem in his life now. Alcoholism was not present at the time he was addicted to DFS, so we cannot blame that as the initiator of his wrecked life, but more of an after effect.

    His problems are not things that I’ve ever heard of with anyone that solely plays season long leagues. I know there are other people in similar situations even though they aren’t all this bad of course. He has played in season long leagues with no problems starting back when everyone played with only paper, pen, calculator, and the newspaper. I bet that anyone who would try to tell his family, friends, ex wife, children, or anyone else that knows him, that DFS isn’t gambling or is no different than playing season long leagues, will probably get looked at with anger, disgust, and perhaps even tears.

    Is it his own fault? Absolutely. But I cannot fathom any argument that would say he wasn’t gambling.

    No offense but your ex-brother in law is a weak minded individual. 99% of DFS players play with understanding the risk. This type of argument if brought up in legislation are the ones that would make DFS officially illegal. Maybe he should seek help and not ruin the DFS community just because he doesn’t understand risk.

  • thehammer74

    @gundacker said...

    Literally none of this is the fault of DFS and all the fault of him not being a responsible human being. It’s also coming from a third party source and not the mouth.

    You just blamed a ruined marriage, broken family and alcoholism on DFS. This is the type of nonsense argument that these asinine AG’s think is the norm and not basket case solitary situations with no outliers.

    I can plug and play this entire scenario with Alcohol, Lottery Tickets, Casino’s, Video Games, Porn, Food, and even season long fantasy etc …. And yet all of those are legal.

    I’m sorry for your brother-in-law’s situation. This is an extremely narrow third party view of a situation of which I’m almost certain has many other problems deep rooted. I refuse to believe DFS turned a white-picket fence family into a broken home.

    99.99% of people shouldn’t be forced to enjoy their life because an extreme minority is out of their league and irresponsible.

    Again, if you read my replies, I am not blaming DFS for his life. You can refuse to believe DFS contributed to anything bad in his life, that is your choice. Yes, you can plug and play alcohol, lottery or anything else in substitution of DFS. My point wasn’t to say DFS is wrong or will in general ruin people’s lives. I want DFS legal as much as you do. I play DFS. Daily. But, I know my limits. Some people don’t. What I said is not a narrow view. Why? Because I am not saying that what happened to him is the norm. All I said is what happened to our family and that’s it.

    Don’t buy into thinking that I believe this is what DFS does to everyone. The ONLY thing I was conveying is that I believe it is a form of gambling. If it helps people to sleep better at night by telling themselves it isn’t, like my brother-in-law did, people could get too caught up in it. Things are good in moderation. Some don’t understand that and go overboard…again…and again. I believe DFS is gambling just like I believe the sky is blue. That does not mean I want the sky to go away nor do I want DFS to go away. DFS in itself is not evil, but it does have the power to overtake some people’s lives just like any other form of addiction or gambling.

  • thehammer74

    @geardaddy said...

    No offense but your ex-brother in law is a weak minded individual. 99% of DFS players play with understanding the risk. This type of argument if brought up in legislation are the ones that would make DFS officially illegal. Maybe he should seek help and not ruin the DFS community just because he doesn’t understand risk.

    You misinterpreted the entire reason I wrote that. Again, and for the last time, I’m on the same side as you guys.

  • cjhopkins07

    Moderator Notice

    Hi everyone, i wanted to post and let you all know that i had to delete multiple posts in this thread relating to ways to circumvent regulations and play from restricted areas. Although i understand your frustrations, this is not the forum for such discussions.

    Setting aside personal feelings on the subject, and trust me when i say that as a Texas resident my personal feelings are particularly strong on this one, we must respect the regulations imposed, whether you view them as right or wrong. To discuss ways around these restrictions does more harm than good and we cannot have such conversations in the forums.

    Instead i urge you to continue sharing your DFS stories and commit your efforts to finding constructive methods of helping the cause to ultimately ensure the legal status for DFS in the State, and the country.

    Thank you,

    CJ

  • BreakingBacon

    @stoptheinsanity said...

    What… No!? Just give me a minute to think.

  • markaw4

    I think one of the silliest arguments people get caught up in is if DFS is gambling or not. Who cares? If it doesn’t meet your personal ethical roadmap so be it, but don’t try to push that on others. The truth is most states allow some form of gambling as long as the state is getting a cut of it. Prime example is how Texas was trying to do a state run DFS game themselves until the negative press came out about the supposed “data breach” and then they stopped looking in to it. So this tells me that the state is not necessarily against DFS itself but against private entities making profits off of it. The state wants their piece of the pie, plain and simple.

    Doing anything excessively is not good for you no matter what it is. Eating too much is wrong and has lead to massive medical costs in this country so are we going to outlaw food? Just like a person should be educated on what a balanced diet is, anyone playing DFS should be educated in what the risks are. Just play with money you can afford to lose and not the rent check. I know it’s gambling and I sleep very well at night. Can we please stop the non-sense!

  • crazycoinflip

    I can understand this argument, but would you also class buying a house as gambling? As the value of the house can go up or down. Stock trading? Buying eggs?

  • crazycoinflip

    @thehammer74 said...

    Just because you are wagering on the outcomes of specific players instead of on the actual game itself does not make it a “game of skill”. Yes, there is skill involved in DFS…but there is also skill in blackjack and poker. Both of those are considered gambling because they are “games of chance” even though skill is involved.

    I can understand this argument, but would you also class buying a house as gambling? As the value of the house can go up or down. Stock trading? Buying eggs?

  • northdallasforty

    @gundacker said...

    This may be the best post I’ve seen posted in this forum ever.

    Excellent job explaining the process.

    I highly second that!!

  • imsogone

    @crazycoinflip said...

    I can understand this argument, but would you also class buying a house as gambling? As the value of the house can go up or down. Stock trading? Buying eggs?

    When you buy a house you are buying something tangible so not gambling. If in the process of buying the house you told me “I bet you fifty bucks this house double in value in the next three years” then it becomes gambling.

  • OsRitmos

    Aren’t you just buying a position on the house’s value at a future point in time? I guess actually having the house puts a theoretical non-zero floor on your position.

  • dirtydistance

    Life is gambling. And DFS is a sprint, seasonal is a marathon. They’re both races.

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