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  • nickcupolo

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    Any options for it this year?

    I played on Fantazzle two years ago, but that’s way way back now.

    There were some questions about legality because it was only one event on one day, but couldn’t this be avoided by including the qualifying session as well?

    Just thinking out loud, Discuss.

  • ldmariodl28

    • Blogger of the Month

    I played on Fantazzle as well (what a mess when they went down). While it has been discussed in the past regarding legality.. I see it no differnt than MMA or DFS Golf.

  • einars

    imo nascar is a single game/event. MMA obviously has multiple matches, golf is a gray area (which is why FD doesnt have it) but you can argue multiple rounds =multiple games. not really a good argument to justify a nascar race as being multiple events

  • ldmariodl28

    • Blogger of the Month

    I think then as Nick said, include the qualifying sessions and it becomes a multi day event like Golf.

  • nickcupolo

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @einars said...

    imo nascar is a single game/event. MMA obviously has multiple matches, golf is a gray area (which is why FD doesnt have it) but you can argue multiple rounds =multiple games. not really a good argument to justify a nascar race as being multiple events

    But like I said, qualifying is a separate event that is done one or two days before. I feel like this would get around the one event rule.

  • einars

    @nickcupolo said...

    But like I said, qualifying is a separate event that is done one or two days before. I feel like this would get around the one event rule.

    how would you award point based of qualifying? still think its a bit of a stretch.

  • nickcupolo

    • 2016 FanDuel WFBBC Finalist

    @einars said...

    how would you award point based of qualifying? still think its a bit of a stretch.

    10 points for first, 8 for second, etc. or copy the way Yahoo does it for their season long game.

    The details are kind of irrelevant as long as it is scored somehow.

  • einars

    @nickcupolo said...

    10 points for first, 8 for second, etc. or copy the way Yahoo does it for their season long game.

    The details are kind of irrelevant as long as it is scored somehow.

    yeah i guess….. i dont find nascar even a little bit entertaining so i dont really care. just seems a little be iffy

  • TwoGun

    • 188

      RG Overall Ranking

    • x3

      $1M Prize Winner

    • x5

      2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    We used to run NASCAR as a two-week event at Sports Tradex but the demand just wasn’t there. We may revisit that down the road.

  • CBassXU

    Another thing with Nascar is there is no way to award points for anything other than the finishing position (at least to my knowledge, I know next to nothing about Nascar). With golf, points are awarded for birdies, pars, rounds under 60 etc, along with the finishing position “bonus”.

    I believe under the current laws, something as basic as finishing position would cross the line into something that isn’t “a game of skill”

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    Biggest problem is the 2 game requirement. FantasySportsLive had it years ago in 2 varieties of games. One included qualifying & main races and the other included the (then) Busch Series race as well as the main race. I think these versions fell well within the law, but people just didn’t like entering games 2-3 days before the main event started. That will be the biggest drawback. The rolling two week slate is another work around, but again people are tying money up for as much as two weeks & most DFS’ers don’t like doing that.

    I’m sure for categories you could include laps led, laps completed, passes (not sure it exists but sounds good) & other aspects, but overall it’s one sport that I don’t feel fits very well within the UIGEA.

  • Scorpio71

    • 2016 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2014 FAFC Finalist

    @CBassXU said...

    Another thing with Nascar is there is no way to award points for anything other than the finishing position (at least to my knowledge, I know next to nothing about Nascar). With golf, points are awarded for birdies, pars, rounds under 60 etc, along with the finishing position “bonus”.

    I believe under the current laws, something as basic as finishing position would cross the line into something that isn’t “a game of skill”

    This is actually incorrect.
    Yahoo gives points on order of finish, qualifying position, laps led and also most laps led.
    Other sites (including NASCAR.com, I believe) include positional increase (i.e. if you start in 30th and finish 10th, that’s +20).

  • einars

    @Scorpio71 said...

    positional increase (i.e. if you start in 30th and finish 10th, that’s +20).

    that seems silly since it penalizes you for starting on the poll

  • ranoa513

    When I played on Yahoo a while back, I remember qualifying getting rained out on a semi-regular basis. That would be a pretty big issue for DFS NASCAR I would think. I think the idea of including the smaller series (whatever they are calling it now), and possibly the truck series as well.

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    @db730 said...

    people just didn’t like entering games 2-3 days before the main event started. That will be the biggest drawback. The rolling two week slate is another work around, but again people are tying money up for as much as two weeks & most DFS’ers don’t like doing that.

    Your money’s really only tied up for 1 week if it’s a rolling 2 race slate (sunday to sunday…or saturday). No different then the pro bowl/super bowl slate that DK just had success with. The lack of fandom is likely the bigger problem.

    I played on fantasysportslive, and I agree with what you said about the problems they faced. Aside from not wanting to lock in lineups 2 days before the race, not every Sprint enthusiast wants to be forced into studying Nationwide, and for the qualifying-included slates, it was just nonsensical for a variety of reasons. Those problems were in addition to the general apathy for the site.

    I posted some ideas for format and scoring in the last thread about this a few weeks back. A rolling 2 race slate where you have one pool of players, can use each driver once over the two races would be perfect. It would just be like any DK entry format.

    Also, since there’s currently no daily option, there’s been some talk over the past year about putting together a grinders season-long league. A few people have pm’d me about it…if anybody else has interest, let me know. If we can get 10+, we can organize something.

  • koolaid15

    This was Nigel’s take when asked about offering NASCAR contests back in October during the Q&A on the Rotogrinders forum:

    “We spoke to our lawyers about that recently. The legal status is very negative. NASCAR doesn’t provide a lot of stats that you could construct a fantasy game around, and so any game quickly resembles sports betting. Unless that changes I can’t see us offering fantasy NASCAR.”

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/my-name-is-nigel-eccles-ceo-of-fanduel-ask-me-anything-381899?page=2

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    @koolaid15 said...

    This was Nigel’s take when asked about offering NASCAR contests back in October during the Q&A on the Rotogrinders forum:

    “We spoke to our lawyers about that recently. The legal status is very negative. NASCAR doesn’t provide a lot of stats that you could construct a fantasy game around, and so any game quickly resembles sports betting. Unless that changes I can’t see us offering fantasy NASCAR.”

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/my-name-is-nigel-eccles-ceo-of-fanduel-ask-me-anything-381899?page=2

    it’s do-able, and the “not enough stats” argument doesn’t really hold water. it’s more suited for DK than FD anyway.

    I mentioned this in the last NASCAR thread, but, as a NASCAR fan, i think a major problem with a daily fantasy game that would need a work-around is the entertainment value of scoring-as-you-go that the other sports offer. Your drivers’ running positions – and therefore your current positions on the tourney leaderboards – are by and large meaningless until the checkered flag waves. My suggestion to counteract this would be to have ARP (Average Running Position) integrated into the scoring.

  • dstars5

    • Blogger of the Month

    I highly doubt we’ll ever see Nascar DFS, especially on one of the larger sites like DK and FD. There just really isn’t all that much demand for it to begin with. Combine that with a difficult to implement scoring system and the legality issue of it, and it just becomes a high risk/low reward situation that no site will touch.

  • realmoney

    @dstars5 said...

    I highly doubt we’ll ever see Nascar DFS, especially on one of the larger sites like DK and FD. There just really isn’t all that much demand for it to begin with. Combine that with a difficult to implement scoring system and the legality issue of it, and it just becomes a high risk/low reward situation that no site will touch.

    I think you will be very surprised soon…

  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    I feel there is a very large quiet market here and it remains untapped.

    I understand the single event clause in the law probably scares sites away from NASCAR but that can be avoided by using qualifying.

    Also, Isn’t the Masters 1 event?

    One of the draws to Football was that it comes around once a week. The rarity makes it that much more special and I think the same would hold true for NASCAR.

    Finally, there is DFS MMA for crissakes. Give us NASCAR!

    Thread merged – Admin

  • marko8407

    I think a multi-series (Sprint Cup/Xfinity/Truck Series) or multi-discipline (NASCAR/IndyCar/F1) running on the same weekend would be the most entertaining. Have a salary cap and each entrant must choose at least 2 drivers from each series. Scoring can take into account finishing position, laps led, average running position, fastest race lap, qualifying position, etc. I wouldn’t include number of positions gained in the scoring.

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    @marko8407 said...

    I think a multi-series (Sprint Cup/Xfinity/Truck Series) or multi-discipline (NASCAR/IndyCar/F1) running on the same weekend would be the most entertaining. Have a salary cap and each entrant must choose at least 2 drivers from each series. Scoring can take into account finishing position, laps led, average running position, fastest race lap, qualifying position, etc. I wouldn’t include number of positions gained in the scoring.

    strongly disagree with both of those ideas. the first is like saying mlb games should include MiLB games, and the latter is like saying NBA games should include WNBA games. there isn’t much crossover between nascar fans and indy/f1 fans. and it shouldn’t require learning nationwide and trucks to play a sprint game.

    a rolling 2-race sprint slate where you can only use each driver once among the 2 weeks is perfect. each sunday one slate wraps up, and another begins. keeps everything simple too.

  • Yukerboy

    • Blogger of the Month

    Legally, you could use qualifying as an event. Award a point for every driver that qualifies. No one should be picking any driver that won’t qualify so this would become a wash and still fall under the multi-event law.

  • Slah

    • 2015 NASCAR Live Final Champion

    @Yukerboy said...

    Legally, you could use qualifying as an event. Award a point for every driver that qualifies. No one should be picking any driver that won’t qualify so this would become a wash and still fall under the multi-event law.

    Thats basically what fantasyracinglounge does. they make you pick a “swinger” during baseball season, and the points awarded are heavily imbalanced.

    i doubt the big 2 sites want to engage in a blatant/gimmick circumvention of the laws though.

  • natey91

    I know that some of you may not watch NASCAR but that doesn’t really mean that the demand isn’t there. If MMA has enough demand to be a DFS sport than I think NASCAR will be just fine. UFC 182 which was the most popular UFC event of the past year had about 800,000 pay per view buys. While about 4-5 million watch your average NASCAR race. 2-3 million people are watching your average TNT/ESPN NBA broadcast and far less are watching NHL broadcasts. You may not see it but the sport is very popular and all you would have to do is convert a small percentage of that to have a viable DFS. Considering the volume DK and FD now have I am sure there is plenty of people who are already on DFS sites and are NASCAR fans. There is also a pretty large demand for fantasy nascar out there. Last year I was in a full season money league with 1400 other people. It might not be the most popular game on there but it can’t hurt to try.

  • JBigg23

    If we’ve learned anything it is that FD won’t try anything while DK might. If we are going to say NBA DFS is a skill game, it is very tough to hold that argument if you don’t think NASCAR DFS would be too.

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