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  • chrisp200

    Hello,

    I am not going trying to pick on FantasyDraft because they are not the only site not addressing this stuff, but this did just happen on their site in a tournament I was playing so I wanted to get a discussing going about.

    I am a casual player. I like to play. I do okay.

    Yesterday, I registered for a NHL/20 man/triple up on FantasyDraft. (9 game NHL slate)

    This is not a bad beat story, I finished with the most points

    So there were 20 players and seven of those players had the exact same lineup, in the exact same order!

    I understand that people sell lineups now, and this is common, but no site has addressed a solution yet, or even addressed that it’s an issue.

    As a casual player, this is taking the fun out of it for me.

    here is the results (you will notice that two of the players at 105pts rather than 106pts, this is only because they played the wrong Staal brother.

    https://www.fantasydraft.com/ticket/542197

    SOLUTION:

    Let me know what you guys think about this

    Lets limit the amount of times a lineup can be entered in a given tournament.

    I think it would depend on what kind of game it was (GPP or Cash), but setting a limit of around 10%-20% of the same lineup in a any given game seems more than fair.

    If a user attempts to enter the same lineup after the max has been reached, a message like: “this lineup has been maxed out for this tournament, please adjust your lineup and resubmit” will be shown.

    This will kill the industry in the long run IMO. Casual players don’t want to feel like they are getting hustled by sharks, just like they don’t want to feel like they are getting hustled at the poker tournament.

    All feedback welcome. Looking to hear everyones thoughts.

  • DermDerm

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    In before “build better lineups”

  • yeahthisiscuddy

    If I wasn’t colluding and got denied from entering the lineup I wanted, I’d be pretty upset.

  • chrisp200

    @DermDerm said...

    In before “build better lineups”

    Great start to the discussion.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    This is a big issue that isn’t going away anytime soon. It will eventually blow up and when it does, the sites will have nobody to blame but themselves. Failing to take initiative and then crying ignorance? Well, that card has already been played.

  • Aalbanese102089

    @yeahthisiscuddy said...

    If I wasn’t colluding and got denied from entering the lineup I wanted, I’d be pretty upset.

    This. I have entered line ups before and occasionally, not often there a few people with the same line ups. I would be pissed if I did my research, created a line up and then got that message.

    In this case, I’m sure those people we were working together. But what could be done to stop it? I don’t think you’re solution is good from my perspective, but I do see where you’re coming from.

  • hbbomaha

    Let’s not jump to conclusions. It’s possible it came from a lineup optimizer.

    Once coincidence. Twice trend?

  • rgyanks

    I don’t think there is anything that can be done to stop this before it happens. I agree that the solution OP presented would not be fair. I think the sites have to make it against their terms to buy lineups. Obviously you cannot actually know if someone is buying lineups, but they should set up some kind of automatic trigger where if X amount of lineups in a contest are identical, set those up for review. If a player has had multiple instances of entering identical lineups as other players, suspend that account (and not for just 3 hours). Some common sense will have to be used (more overlap on short slates, cash games vs gpps, etc.), but I think the sites could curb this.

  • tomac

    @yeahthisiscuddy said...

    If I wasn’t colluding and got denied from entering the lineup I wanted, I’d be pretty upset.

    You would be upset if the site didnt let you put in a lineup that was already owned by four guys in a 20-man triple up?

  • chrisp200

    @yeahthisiscuddy said...

    If I wasn’t colluding and got denied from entering the lineup I wanted, I’d be pretty upset.

    Why would you want to enter a lineup that is 10%-20% owned?

    Furthermore, maybe they write the algorithm to catch players that are repeatedly submitting a similar lineup as the field (ex. if the same players from the triple up tournament do the same thing tonight, the algorithm can deny it) but if a common person comes in and does it by accident for the first time, the algorithm allows it.

    At some point, DFS sites will be forced to make an attempt to fix this problem.

  • DermDerm

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Serious question since I didn’t play much poker back in the day….but how did full tilt/ pokerstars catch players colluding? Would whatever process they were using be applicable to DFS today?

  • Charlotte49ers

    I would stay away from Fantasy Draft for the time being. They have about a dozen people employed and I’m willing to bet there will be more hiccups before they smooth things out.

  • jmo26

    Not sure what the solution is, but I agree it’s a problem… particularly for those new to DFS (obviously makes a terrible first impression).

  • jmo26

    @Charlotte49ers said...

    I would stay away from Fantasy Draft for the time being. They have about a dozen people employed and I’m willing to bet there will be more hiccups before they smooth things out.

    I personally love FantasyDraft, and see no reason why anyone should stay away. The fact that they’re a smaller start-up at this point certainly isn’t a convincing argument, and the lineup sharing is an issue everywhere.

  • Aalbanese102089

    @Charlotte49ers said...

    I would stay away from Fantasy Draft for the time being. They have about a dozen people employed and I’m willing to bet there will be more hiccups before they smooth things out.

    I disagree 100%. I’ve been playing there about a week and I love it. Absolutely nothing to complain about, there’s no sharks and I’ve won a decent amount of money in only a week. They run a lot of guaranteed contests and sometimes you can find some overlay. Their maximum # of entries is more reasonable than find on the big box sites. They always have NHL players in the correct position and are never missing players. The customer service has always been top notch to quickly and thoroughly answered any questions I have. I’ve started playing less on FD/DK since going over there and a few of my friends have as well. Any site will have hiccups but I have 0 things to complain about FantasyDraft right now.

  • travs424

    i hate it too, but just beat one of them and you beat all of them it actually increases your chances of cashing and if a player on that lineup gets injured it greatly increases your chances. this will never go away. it sucks but it is not a problem that reduces your chance of winning.

  • DavidK44

    This nailed it.

    The solution the OP proposed sounds good in theory, but the very first time I try to enter a lineup that by coincidence is already being used by a few other people and am told I cannot enter it simply because a few other people created the same lineup, I’d be incredibly pissed.

    It’s also ripe for abuse. I enter what I am almost certain is the “nut” lineup ten times into the same contest myself (let’s say the limit is 10). I then right before lock edit nine of them to create variety amongst my lineups – are the people who were blocked from entering the lineup because I had single handedly hit the max entries for it going to get a message saying “hey that lineup you coudln’t play, you can now include it?”

    When you think about it, it’s a horrible fix that creates just as many new problems as the one it tries to solve.

    RGYanks’ suggestion accomplishes the goal in a far more reasonable fashion. Make it clear on the sites TOS that buying lineups is illegal, and then if/when multiple players enter the same lineup, the site should internally flag those players and monitor them in the future. If the players continually enter the same one lineup, take action.

    Of course, that would require sites to be pro-active and competent at enforcing these types of things, and that’s asking for a lot apparently. But the trick is to monitor groups of users who routinely have the same lineup, without stopping a player who concidentally entered a commonly-used lineup. It is far more important to allow a casual player to enter the lineup he created and wants to use, even if by accident it’s a commonly occuring lineup, than to stop blocks of users with the same lineup.

  • britdevine

    • 2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    The sites need to start suspending the lead account of lineup sellers.

    A simple rule if you advertise/sell lineups you get a 1 month ban from the site would quickly squash all this nonsense.

    But then again, we see the sites willing to bend over backwards for anyone that produces rake, instead of doing what is the right thing.

  • DermDerm

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @britdevine said...

    The sites need to start suspending the lead account of lineup sellers.

    A simple rule if you advertise/sell lineups you get a 1 month ban from the site would quickly squash all this nonsense.

    But then again, we see the sites willing to bend over backwards for anyone that produces rake, instead of doing what is the right thing.

    This wouldn’t work for people who don’t openly advertise their username when they sell lineups. Some people are just posting screenshots of results and selling lineups with anonymity.

  • chrisp200

    @DermDerm said...

    Serious question since I didn’t play much poker back in the day….but how did full tilt/ pokerstars catch players colluding? Would whatever process they were using be applicable to DFS today?

    They never got into much detail about how they prevented/caught cheating. The UB scandal was brought to light by the players. The players could tell they were being cheated because the super user wasn’t playing optimally and was winning at an improbable win rate.

    This is a difficult problem to solve but I think experimenting with a few ideas is the first step. As far as I know, no site has even tried to put any measures in place.

    At the very least, how about all 50/50 lineups with 100 or less players need to be unique, unless a that player wants to multi entry. Would it really be that bad to just try it for a short term basis and then get feedback from the players??

  • britdevine

    • 2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @DermDerm said...

    This wouldn’t work for people who don’t openly advertise their username when they sell lineups. Some people are just posting screenshots of results and selling lineups with anonymity.

    It’s not hard to know who the big lineup sellers are right now, and pretty easy to track down via social media.

  • ascole28

    With regards to lineup selling, it’s never been something that was appealing to me. Half the fun is building your own lineup and rooting for the players you picked. Do the people that buy lineups really care about DFS, or do they just consider it a fun investment?

  • eKing

    I was in a high priced 8 man on NBA FD last year and lost. I was one from the money cut, but the 3 ahead of me (all known names in DFS) had the EXACT same lineup. I came to the forums to see others complaining about 2 of the exact individuals and one of them blatantly LIED about it.

    Fast forward almost a year later and it’s common knowledge those individuals share lineups, that’s 2 or 3 of DFS’s top dogs (depending the sport). Anyways, I lost all respect for those players and I avoid them like the plague. (Most respect was lost cause of the lying, liars can suck it).

    I’m not naming names. I’m sure most people can catch on to what I’m saying. My point is, how can we blame the “unknowns” for buying lineups when some of the top dogs are sharing too? I still don’t know why people want to trust another man with their money instead of doing the research to become “sharp” (cough shark) themselves. Trust me, it will help you more over time…

  • tonytone1908

    @britdevine said...

    The sites need to start suspending the lead account of lineup sellers.

    A simple rule if you advertise/sell lineups you get a 1 month ban from the site would quickly squash all this nonsense.

    But then again, we see the sites willing to bend over backwards for anyone that produces rake, instead of doing what is the right thing.

    So then when you happen to use a LU that other people bought and you actually created on your own do you get banned too?

  • britdevine

    • 2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @tonytone1908 said...

    So then when you happen to use a LU that other people bought and you actually created on your own do you get banned too?

    Not the buyers, the sellers..they are very easy to find on social media

  • Redskins4

    Lineup sharing should be a ban-able offense, this is the solution: sites hire an anti fraud guy who will investigate lineup sharing or potential lineup sharing and perpetrators will be suspended from the site, or have winnings from contests they shared lineups in voided. Anti fraud guy could look at some back end things to help with this as well “These guys all made their lineups in under 30 seconds and they are all the same…”

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