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  • cleanslate

    I just noticed that the Friday $3 Squeeze now pays a whopping $5 for a minimum cash, meaning you can’t even double your money with a minimum cash. On top of that, if I hit first place in the same tourney, instead of making 15k, I make 5k, 1/3 of what I would have made prior to today.

    So basically, a minimum cash is now spread out to 25% of the entries, but I make $1 less unless I hit the 2nd tier of cashing, which requires that I hit a top 15% score to DOUBLE my money. Before, a top 20% score doubled my money. It’s HARDER to double my money with this new structure. And if I hit a top 10 score the payouts are significantly less than before. I make less at the bottom and less up top.

    There is a reason that double ups exist. If I want better odds of doubling my money I can just enter those. That was never the allure of a GPP to me. Adding insult to injury, if I have a top 15-25% score I am not even DOUBLING my money. I am getting $2 profit on a $3 investment. With such a weak payout structure in the top 10 now what is the point of even playing in GPPs anymore? I can enter the large field double up and have a 43-44% chance of getting twice my money as compared to having to hit a top 15% score in the squeeze to double my money.

    I know some people love this, but this has zero appeal to me personally. If both sites are going to be almost identical what is the point of even having two sites? They should just join forces and become one site. I won’t be playing any more MLB contests that offer this kind of payout. My days of playing DFS as a GPP only player are drawing quickly to an end.

  • Olhausen

    I don’t think the sites are copying eachother as much as they don’t have a choice. I have a feeling with the rake going up and less fish with more experienced players people are losing and in turn quit playing. My guess is they want people to win more or at least break even more so they don’t leave as quickly. I honestly think this is just the start of big Gpp’s having lower top prizes and adding a more flat payout structure.

  • cleanslate

    @Olhausen said...

    I don’t think the sites are copying eachother as much as they don’t have a choice. I have a feeling with the rake going up and less fish with more experienced players people are losing and in turn quit playing. My guess is they want people to win more or at least break even more so they don’t leave as quickly. I honestly think this is just the start of big Gpp’s having lower top prizes and adding a more flat payout structure.

    I could get on board with a flatter payout structure, but where is the middle ground? FD has always been flatter than DK, and they went way too far to the other end with this contest. If I have to hit a top 15 percent score just to double my money now, AND I have no incentive of a huge payout up top, why should I bother playing GPPs at this point? Wouldn’t it make more sense for everyone to just start playing huge field double ups?

    This approach might just kill GPP appeal to a lot of new and existing players. There are much more creative ways to keep people around, none of which I have the energy to get into right now, but this seems like an awful solution. After playing DFS for over 3 years now I’m honestly at the end of my rope with it. I don’t think there is any viability left and I am very close to permanently quitting.

    Having two sites operate in nearly identical ways is also extremely off-putting and I wish they would just merge if that is going to be the case so that a huge market opens up for a new site to enter the picture. RIP Draftstreet, you are still sorely missed.

  • Olhausen

    @cleanslate said...

    I could get on board with a flatter payout structure, but where is the middle ground? FD has always been flatter than DK, and they went way too far to the other end with this contest. If I have to hit a top 15 percent score just to double my money now, AND I have no incentive of a huge payout up top, why should I bother playing GPPs at this point? Wouldn’t it make more sense for everyone to just start playing huge field double ups?

    This approach might just kill GPP appeal to a lot of new and existing players. There are much more creative ways to keep people around, none of which I have the energy to get into right now, but this seems like an awful solution. After playing DFS for over 3 years now I’m honestly at the end of my rope with it. I don’t think there is any viability left and I am very close to permanently quitting.

    Having two sites operate in nearly identical ways is also extremely off-putting and I wish they would just merge if that is going to be the case so that a huge market opens up for a new site to enter the picture. RIP Draftstreet, you are still sorely missed.

    I do agree that they are way to much alike after FD going with higher scoring and Dk going to a five man stack. I’m also frustrated but these new payout structures have made me play more in the moonshot and I will be more likely to play in the squeeze also. So basically it comes down to how many people will like this structure or not. If they do like it then the sites will obviously keep doing it.

  • cleanslate

    @Olhausen said...

    I do agree that they are way to much alike after FD going with higher scoring and Dk going to a five man stack. I’m also frustrated but these new payout structures have made me play more in the moonshot and I will be more likely to play in the squeeze also. So basically it comes down to how many people will like this structure or not. If they do like it then the sites will obviously keep doing it.

    Yeah, only time will tell I guess. It’s just really disappointing to me personally. It makes me think that loading up on large field double ups is the only way to attack DFS in a way that would be +EV for a lot of players that were formally heavy GPP players. My entire way of being profitable has hinged on playing at a near break even pace in between big GPP hits a few times a year. With the top payouts not that big it makes having a huge hit only a few times a year less impactful. I don’t think my strategy will be sustainable anymore.

    I’d rather have a 44% chance of doubling my money than a 15% chance and build safer lineups accordingly. Less money at the top negates high risk/reward lineup construction quite a bit.

  • deejones49

    Just noticed that i need 11th to break even;)

  • Olhausen

    Well fan duel is back to 15k to first for tonight in the squeeze. I guess they can’t make up their mind as usual.

  • pal

    Yeeeeeeeep. No consistency. I bitch about this here and whenever they ask me for feedback.

    I loved it (actually, hated it) that 1st for the Friday night 140K squeeze was $5K for first and the 50K late night squeeze had the same $5K for first. On what planet does that make any sense?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

    Beat 53,000 players in a $3 game and win 5K. Beat 19,000 players in a $3 game and win 5K.

    DUMB DUMB DUMB

  • pal

    I’d be all for flattening out the top 10. Getting 2-10 is just about as hard as getting 1st.

    But flattening out the back end is so dumb. Win $5… great.

  • makeitra1n

    It’s all marketing.first off theyre a business and are trying to make as much as possible.I’m sure the legal fees are very high and they need to get money from somewhere (us). I think FD specifically always changes things because they like people talking about the changes as it keeps them in people’s minds.no one ever gets used to the same thing on FD.

    What I hate is that theyve been trying to copy DK for a while now for literally no reason.they were #1 by far.don’t fix what isn’t broken.

  • cleanslate

    @makeitra1n said...

    What I hate is that theyve been trying to copy DK for a while now for literally no reason.they were #1 by far.don’t fix what isn’t broken.

    They copied them again tomorrow for the Squeeze. It honestly is pathetic that they can’t stick to their own business model and have to constantly imitate their main competitor. They have become a terrible site over the past few years.

    This is the equivalent of Coke deciding they want to taste like Pepsi. Why not just merge companies if that’s the case? It would save them both a lot of money to just merge if they are offering the same product.

    Either way, it’s time for another big site to enter the picture. Unfortunately New York is really holding that process up as well as the continued uncertainty in Illinois and Texas.

  • NCRick

    Ill tell you one thing, the cash total amount of withdraws by fish was probably reduced by 95% as a result of this new payout structure. Hopefully NFL wont be giving 2% of the prize pool to 1st place.

  • cleanslate

    Just FYI, here is a side by side comparison of the large field double up with the new vs. old GPP FD is offering:

    25K, $2 Double Up, 43.5% of the field cashes and gains a 100% ROI. 13% Rake

    New 140k $3 Squeeze, 25% of the field cashes, 13.55% Rake
    ROI is as follows:
    Top 15-25% of the field = 67% ROI
    Top 7.7-15% of the field = 100% ROI
    Top 10 Payouts:
    1st=5k 2nd=3k 3rd=2k 4th=1.5k 5th=1k 6th=$750 7th-8th=$600 9th-10th=$500

    Old 140k $3 Squeeze, 19.8% of the field cashes, 13.55% Rake
    Top 6-19.8% of the field = 100% ROI
    Top 10 Payouts:
    1st=15k 2nd=8k 3rd=5k 4th=3.5k 5th=2k 6th= 1.5k 7th=1k 8th= $750 9-10th=$500

    I am not going to break down the rest of the prizepool as it would take way too long, but you need to hit the top 7-15% of the field just to double your money now. With the old payout, the top 6-20% doubled their money.

    Are the less skilled players more likely to double their money if they hit the top 20% or the top 15%? Are they likely to consistently hit that top 6-7% that is needed to jump over a 100% ROI under either payout structure? If ANYONE (skilled or not) hits a top 10 score on a given night, would you rather hit that top 10 under the old payout structure or the new payout structure?

    These are honest questions, draw whatever conclusions you personally see fit. As for myself, I don’t play GPPs to have a top 15-25% score only get me a 67% ROI. I also don’t play them for the upside of having to hit a top 7-15% score to only DOUBLE my money. Why would I even play GPPs at all if that is my goal?

    If my main goal is just to get some of my money back every time I play a GPP, it clearly makes far more sense to instead play a large field double up that has a slightly lower rake and gives me a 43.5% chance of doubling my money. Again, to me personally, the appeal of the GPPs is to try and hit a top 10 score so that I can get a nice payday if I do. If I compare the top 10 payouts of the old structure vs the new structure, the new structure is utter crap to me, and on top of that, it’s now even harder for me to double my money.

    I actually think this new payout structure is a greater, albeit slower, -EV bleedout of your money if you are not significantly hedging GPP entries with a far greater ratio of large field double up entries. I hate it, and the fact that FD feels the need to copy what DK is periodically doing makes me really sick of them as a site. At least DK has enough creativity to ALSO offer tourneys that are top heavy in addition to cash games. I have more choices of how to spend my money on DK on a weekly basis, with wildly different approaches to payout structures on any given night, and with far more sports to choose from.

    FD copies only one aspect of what DK is doing, and to me that is the worst aspect. I can’t find a reason to continue playing on their site in addition to DK if they are offering nothing different or enticing by comparison.

  • cleanslate

    Also, I’d gladly pay a 15% rake on large field GPPs with a more top heavy payout if FD actively promoted offsetting that by offering large field double ups at only a 10% rake. Why not promote the idea to new players that sign up that you should hedge your GPP entries with large field double up entries, and then highlight the fact that those double ups are being run at a significantly lower rake so that you can offset your GPP investments with a better chance of getting back your money through double ups?

    I’m absolutely convinced that the top heavy payouts are what draw new players in. There are more creative and realistic ways to keep those players around than making GPPs really boring and a super slow -EV bleedout for almost everyone. One of the most obvious ways to do that is to lower the rake on large field double ups and actively promote the idea to new players that playing in large field double ups is a great way to offset your GPP investment money.

    I know that coming up with creative and intelligent solutions to the problems that the industry is facing takes work. Maybe FD just prefers to continue being super lazy and ripping off the ideas of their main competitor site rather than putting in the time to come up with new ideas of their own.

  • travs424

    @cleanslate said...

    RIP Draftstreet, you are still sorely missed.

    amen to this

  • BennyRamirez

    Funny. The $140k Squeeze on Monday is only paying $5k to 1st. This happened Thursday or Friday, too. Easy fade.

    The 2.5x mincash really saves some bad runs here and there. Not so much for the 2.5x, but the ladder itself is more friendly.

  • madmanjayWV

    @cleanslate said...

    They copied them again tomorrow for the Squeeze. It honestly is pathetic that they can’t stick to their own business model and have to constantly imitate their main competitor. They have become a terrible site over the past few years.

    This is the equivalent of Coke deciding they want to taste like Pepsi. Why not just merge companies if that’s the case? It would save them both a lot of money to just merge if they are offering the same product.

    Either way, it’s time for another big site to enter the picture. Unfortunately New York is really holding that process up as well as the continued uncertainty in Illinois and Texas.

    I quit playing the squeezes a long time ago — I mean I still play them, once in a while, but u need max bullets for those…and don’t think the smaller field $3 squeezes are EZ to be at the top either……..they are shark infested………

    It’s still all relative to what u want to accomplish……..as a player..consistent winning or that $1G big payday or $5K, $15K+ some folks would rather GRIND 1-2-5-10-100-1000+ it is what it is, but others see #1 Prize $$$, great thread.

    P.S. — Anyone else on DESKTOP and see the FANDUEL new LOOK/Layout —- ~~ 2 thumbs down ~~ gag..can i change it back?

    P.P.S. — Guess they did it to welcome back NFL — bla…….. RIP CFB such an injustice and a travesty…..I’m not even going to watch CFB unless it’s the EERS…..still don’t want to think about not having DFS college football….

  • KillaChap

    It also appears that FD wanted to copy DK with their arcade like homepage aimed at appealing to, well, I don’t know who. That was one of the things that made me prefer FD too. If they ruin their app, I might shed a tear or 2.

  • WundleGrax

    if you play GPPs to double your money you probably shouldnt be paying GPPs

  • cleanslate

    @WundleGrax said...

    if you play GPPs to double your money you probably shouldnt be paying GPPs

    That’s exactly my point, which is what makes the new payout structure up top that they’ve been experimenting with really unappealing. Today they went back to a normal top 10 payout, hopefully they stick with that.

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