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  • Jagwarr

    • 2016 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I have recently returned after a break from playing dfs and once again was faced with a bad experience due to the philly rain out the other night. I’ll be the first to say that I’m not versed in articulating my ideas so please give me a chance here.

    I left dfs after that rain out basketball game with the strategic hole in the roof episode which was followed or preceded with some other odd event that I don’t remember. Prior to dfs I played at Pinnacle sports playing straight up wagers.

    Anyway I was curious about a rule change that DK and FD could make to circumvent the government from imposing their own eventual rules as sport waging grows across the USA. I realize that many others have suggested this but I have not read it to date so forgive me.

    The rule would be the same as sport books like Pinnacle already use. Any wager on games..ie.. players in which the game is canceled would be refunded, as they do with parlays etc. Those wagers would then be deducted from the prize pool. The rest of the game pool would proceed.

    Could anyone explain to me why this isn’t being done now in dfs with the forerunners in the industry?

    Would you be for or against it and why?

  • sasmallen

    • 505

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #89

      RG Tiered Ranking

    Would this proposal include “regular” rainouts?

    What if you take the time to research a slate and see there is a high chance of rain at a park (thanks to Kevin Roth’s great forecasts) so you don’t use any players from that game. Your opponents that didn’t bother to research the weather that night would face no risk if they have players in their lineup(s) from the game that was rained out?

    This has nothing to do w/ the PHI game last night… that was totally different. (even though there was enough information out about 15-30 mins before lock that made me feel it wasn’t safe enough to use players from that game in my cash lineup)

  • Jagwarr

    • 2016 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    I understand your point. Research!

    I get it. But how does one research a drilled hole or perhaps something worse? Does canceling canceled games from the pool really hurt?

    Would doing so prevent bad folks from doing bad things?

    I don’t much like umpire replays in any sports but they prevent things from happening. I don’t know but when there is money to be made
    people will go bad things.

  • Jagwarr

    • 2016 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    perhaps baseball could have an one hour limit. If canceled within an hour or later of start time all bets are off.

    Yes if your one who likes to take chances and guess the weather it’s not for you but if you like to play square on research then it’s all for you.
    You can play on your research and not on mother nature.

  • Dunzor

    @Jagwarr said...

    Could anyone explain to me why this isn’t being done now in dfs with the forerunners in the industry?

    Would you be for or against it and why?

    It is an interesting idea, but the rules and regulation around Guaranteed Prize Pools would not allow this as they require that when a contest runs with a GPP that it cannot be reduced, so under the current regulatory framework I don’t think they would be allowed to remove entrants after lock and change the prize pool.

  • bigez952

    It wouldn’t be a “guaranteed” prize pool if they were able to refund and reduce the prize pool after lock. They have all of the payouts detmermined prior to lock and there is a fair % if people who would be pissed if they entered a $100,000 guaranteed contest that only paid our $41,000 for the night.

  • Jagwarr

    • 2016 FanDuel NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Like I said I’m not good at explaining things. So let me stay focused and simple. If a game is canceled it is done. All funds returned period. All other plays move on.

    No need for time frames or talk about weather or anything. No hole drilling or bomb scares or insect swarms or flu’s, nothing. All wagered funds returned and all other wagers move on.

  • bigez952

    @Jagwarr said...

    Like I said I’m not good at explaining things. So let me stay focused and simple. If a game is canceled it is done. All funds returned period. All other plays move on.

    No need for time frames or talk about weather or anything. No hole drilling or bomb scares or insect swarms or flu’s, nothing. All wagered funds returned and all other wagers move on.

    I get what your saying but you can’t have a guaranteed prize pool of $100,000 have a game get cancelled which results in refunds of $50,000 and move forward with a $50,000 prize pool. That would totally defeat the purpose of having a guaranteed prize pool.

    And if they refunded and kept the $100,000 guarantee then the sites would lose money based on dumb teams like the Phillies.

  • bigez952

    Think for a second you play a full game MLB slate and you stacked a couple 6:05 games that just go nuts and your winning the slate for $50,000 by like 15-30 points. Then some odd issue hits a 9:05 game or it gets delayed and maybe cancelled at like 10 well after your entire team is done. You think that person would be happy if they just said we are reducing the prize pool and sorry your only going to win $30,000. It $50,000 like you had thought when maybe you knew the risk of the later game so you chose to fade it.

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    Yeah , this is one of those “ideas”’ that wont and should not ever get any traction.

  • theIrrigator

    • 908

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #31

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @TnRiddles said...

    Yeah , this is one of those “ideas”’ that wont and should not ever get any traction.

  • rausch180

    @bigez952 said...

    Think for a second you play a full game MLB slate and you stacked a couple 6:05 games that just go nuts and your winning the slate for $50,000 by like 15-30 points. Then some odd issue hits a 9:05 game or it gets delayed and maybe cancelled at like 10 well after your entire team is done. You think that person would be happy if they just said we are reducing the prize pool and sorry your only going to win $30,000. It $50,000 like you had thought when maybe you knew the risk of the later game so you chose to fade it.

    Also what if you were winning by 20 points, but had 1 cheap player left in the 9:05 game, which gets postponed and your lineup disappears with a refund?

    The strategy would move to a weird place, where it’s right to actively go after the thundery weather potential high postponement chance games. It might get postponed 80% of the time, where you end up with a refund and no risk. When it doesn’t you have great conditions. Something like that.

    If you’re going at it from the perspective of “Would doing so prevent bad folks from doing bad things?” then I don’t think it changes anything. DFS is tiny compared to sports betting. There isn’t enough money to be made from altering one game (as you need players from multiple games) and if you really believed there was then if things were going badly, wouldn’t they then get the game postponed and stop themselves losing money?

    Currently though it’s the same for everyone. Many of the postponement situations are known and it comes down to risk tolerance or just following beat reporters. If it’s completely unknown then it hits everybody randomly. Some of the time you’re on the right side of it and some of the time not. Just part of the game.

  • bigez952

    @rausch180 said...

    Also what if you were winning by 20 points, but had 1 cheap player left in the 9:05 game, which gets postponed and your lineup disappears with a refund?

    That is a great point that I didn’t even think of. You could be in first place for $50,000 with only a cheap $2,000 punt play left in the late game. It gets PPD for some crazy unexpected reason and now you get your $4 back and forfeit the $50,000 win. I can’t imagine that would sit very well with anyone. Even if it wasn’t that extreme and you were winning only $50 to $100 I would be pissed to lose that in favor of a refund.

  • frugal

    Yeah…bad idea. However, I think the following might work:

    1. Late swap for NBA. Wow, what a great idea. Glad Yahoo still uses it.
    2. Assuming late swap in play, adjustable player lock for delay games. I realize this is tricky and really applies more the MLB than NBA, but that would help swap player in a delay if one is worried about a postponement.
    3. A single bench player spot which would automatically sub in for your lowest scoring player. The cap would only adjust by the cost of 1 min salary player, those who are worried can balance things out with a better bench player, those who don’t care roster any random min salary player. Would probably needlessly complicate things though.

  • NIN1002

    I also got pretty much flattened by the stupid PHI field conditions thing and it was no fun. I accepted that risk and one of those “unforeseen circumstances” type of situation. The day before that, I faded 100% off deGrom and then they roll out Oswalt after lock and that burned more people than the PHI thing. So, the first day I capitalized in a giant way with no deGrom and the next day I got totally burned by the after lineup lock “unforeseen situation”.

    With that said, I was pretty disappointed in RG for letting it happen. People talk about this “15-30 minute window”, but why was there no DFS alert about it if everyone knew about it? It was not a weather thing, so Roth is off the hook. I am not on Twitter and play on a desktop computer so I won’t get information on Twitter (nor do I expect to as Twitter is not a dedicated DFS site). I also don’t pay Twitter $150/year for that type of information. But, I would hope RG would make one of those DFS alerts that they do for far far less about this situation that it needs to be monitored as that is their job. And…as we said…this information was known early, so the onus is on the staff of this site to get that information out there in some capacity. They made no mention of this in the weather or anywhere, and that is the part that is most frustrating as it seems like it could have been avoided, but the site I pay money to didn’t feel it necessary to put a blurb anywhere on the site about it.

  • bigez952

    @nin1002 said...

    With that said, I was pretty disappointed in RG for letting it happen. People talk about this “15-30 minute window”, but why was there no DFS alert about it if everyone knew about it? It was not a weather thing, so Roth is off the hook. I am not on Twitter and play on a desktop computer so I won’t get information on Twitter (nor do I expect to as Twitter is not a dedicated DFS site). I also don’t pay Twitter $150/year for that type of information. But, I would hope RG would make one of those DFS alerts that they do for far far less about this situation that it needs to be monitored as that is their job. And…as we said…this information was known early, so the onus is on the staff of this site to get that information out there in some capacity. They made no mention of this in the weather or anywhere, and that is the part that is most frustrating as it seems like it could have been avoided, but the site I pay money to didn’t feel it necessary to put a blurb anywhere on the site about it.

    Information was known prior to lock that they were having trouble with the field but all indications seemed like they were going to get it game ready. RG did sent out an alert saying the game was PPD minutes after it was known that was going to be the case. Unfortunately the Phillies waited until gametime to make that call.

    There is 0 reason to put any blame on RG and 100% of it should go to the Phillies for how they handled that situation in waiting until game time to call the game off.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    @nin1002 said...

    I also got pretty much flattened by the stupid PHI field conditions thing and it was no fun. I accepted that risk and one of those “unforeseen circumstances” type of situation. The day before that, I faded 100% off deGrom and then they roll out Oswalt after lock and that burned more people than the PHI thing. So, the first day I capitalized in a giant way with no deGrom and the next day I got totally burned by the after lineup lock “unforeseen situation”.

    With that said, I was pretty disappointed in RG for letting it happen. People talk about this “15-30 minute window”, but why was there no DFS alert about it if everyone knew about it? It was not a weather thing, so Roth is off the hook. I am not on Twitter and play on a desktop computer so I won’t get information on Twitter (nor do I expect to as Twitter is not a dedicated DFS site). I also don’t pay Twitter $150/year for that type of information. But, I would hope RG would make one of those DFS alerts that they do for far far less about this situation that it needs to be monitored as that is their job. And…as we said…this information was known early, so the onus is on the staff of this site to get that information out there in some capacity. They made no mention of this in the weather or anywhere, and that is the part that is most frustrating as it seems like it could have been avoided, but the site I pay money to didn’t feel it necessary to put a blurb anywhere on the site about it.

    I’ve said it before in various places. An alert wouldn’t work in this situation as we simply were not sure exactly the chances of a cancellation happening. I for instance, ended up with 30 Philly lineups that night, as I really had no idea what was going on until it was too late. If RG sends out an alert that there is a possibility of a game cancelling, and then it doesn’t and the Phillies slam 5 HR’s that night, there would be a huge outrage.

    It’s not as simple as it seems in a very odd situation like that. Blame the Phillies, not a site for not notifying you.

  • Pandamonious

    • Moderator

    • 2020 Blogger of the Month

    @bigez952 said...

    Information was known prior to lock that they were having trouble with the field but all indications seemed like they were going to get it game ready. RG did sent out an alert saying the game was PPD minutes after it was known that was going to be the case. Unfortunately the Phillies waited until gametime to make that call.

    There is 0 reason to put any blame on RG and 100% of it should go to the Phillies for how they handled that situation in waiting until game time to call the game off.

    You’re missing his point. Agree or disagree with it, he’s suggesting RG should have sent out an alert that there were concerns about the field conditions for that game. Supposedly this news was all over twitter, but RG didn’t bother to alert people who have their app or follow alerts on this site to be cautious there. I think an argument could be made they dropped the ball a bit there, but I don’t care enough to ignite that debate nor put any energy into taking sides on it.

    On a side note, actually more related to the OP, I think it would be very logical as a DFS player, maybe more so than as a DFS site and it’s abilities to do it, but if games wouldn’t lock until a stat was recorded in it. Instead of an artificial first pitch time having being when it locked, it would automatically lock when the first hit or out was made. This is most annoying with the NBA, but they don’t have late swap anyway so maybe it doesn’t matter. It’s still annoying though they lock at 7, when tip-off isn’t usually until 7:05-7:07 and you find out someone is sitting out between 7 and tip and you can do nothing at all about it even though nothing has started yet.

  • NIN1002

    @bhdevault said...

    I’ve said it before in various places. An alert wouldn’t work in this situation as we simply were not sure exactly the chances of a cancellation happening. I for instance, ended up with 30 Philly lineups that night, as I really had no idea what was going on until it was too late. If RG sends out an alert that there is a possibility of a game cancelling, and then it doesn’t and the Phillies slam 5 HR’s that night, there would be a huge outrage.

    It’s not as simple as it seems in a very odd situation like that. Blame the Phillies, not a site for not notifying you.

    I do remember seeing the aftermath posts and it is what it is. I think it’s just an unfortunate situation. You are right, if you post one thing and the PHI goes off, then that’s no good, either. The bottom line is, everyone loses in this really weird situation and it just is “one of those things”. I still think at least an FYI that perhaps something bad is going down if anyone had any actionable information is another story all together. If people are saying there was a 15-30 minute window to make it happen, then that makes me think there was an opportunity to at least FYI it to the world (and again, lets be honest here, I’ve seen MUCH less of an update in the DFS alerts than this). I didn’t even know this could have been a “possibly bad” situation brewing. I dunno who these people are that are saying with confidence they knew and it was preventable. At the same time, others are saying (like yourself) that nothing could be done at all.

    I am over it and hold no ill will, but I still think the heads up would have been appreciated and then I can make my own choice. I didn’t have any of the information at all, yet others did. Perhaps it’s just a lose-lose situation here and there is no winning answer.

    I suppose the big question is….if you could go back in time and do it over with the information we know now (and it sounds like the field was completely unplayable from the get go and no effort whatsoever was made to get the game in), would you do something different or just stick with the “blame the Phillies” answer?

  • Pandamonious

    • Moderator

    • 2020 Blogger of the Month

    I don’t see how saying there’s concerns about the field conditions in a game and it’s ability to play is any different than putting a game at orange/yellow for concerns about a rain out or delay that ultimately may or may not happen? It’s up to the player/reader to do what they want with the information and how to proceed.

    Either way I suppose it’s a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation. Blaming other people isn’t going to get anyone anywhere anyway.

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