INDUSTRY FORUM

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    I’m not sure how long it has been in place, but know it definitely has not been enforced with any regularity but FD seems to be enforcing their rule of only paying out winnings. I recently made a deposit, won and lost some money and then wanted to make a withdrawal so I could play more on DK but my withdrawal on FD was declined because it was for more than I had won. After a lengthy back and forth with customer service I was informed that even though they have not been enforcing it with any regularity (by their own admission), they would only allow me to withdraw the amount I had won in contests. Meaning, if I deposit $50 lose $20, but win $3.60 of it back, I could only withdraw the $3.60.

    Let me be clear, I don’t have an issue with this by any means and understand that it is in place because people like myself hop from site to site with extreme regularity. I just wanted to point out that for a small time player you should be aware of this because the last thing I wanted to happen was for me to try out FD and their new MLB scoring (with late swap) and dislike it but then have my money stuck there until I can win enough of it back and I don’t want that to happen to anyone else.

    Again, not complaining (other than wanting sites to be consistent with their enforcement of rules), just pointing out my experience and that FD (and maybe other sites as well) seems to be cracking down on this.

  • Heterodox

    @tgowen said...

    Again, not complaining (other than wanting sites to be consistent with their enforcement of rules), just pointing out my experience and that FD (and maybe other sites as well) seems to be cracking down on this.

    Why not complain? It’s outrageous for them to keep your money. Ya, I get the policy, I get putting up some barriers and having some checks in place to prevent fraud, but the money is yours, not theirs, and once you speak to them there should be no issue. I haven’t played on FD in a while, but if they don’t make that policy CRYSTAL CLEAR when you deposit, then it’s basically theft. I mean, even calling it a deposit is a lie if you can’t get it back. If you “deposit” $20 on FD, you haven’t really “deposited” anything, you’ve purchased $20 worth of play, to be used at any time, non-refundable.

  • Heterodox

    @tgowen said...

    Let me be clear, I don’t have an issue with this by any means and understand that it is in place because people like myself hop from site to site with extreme regularity

    That’s not even why it’s in place. It’s to prevent charge-back fraud and money-laundering. They can’t hold your money hostage to prevent you from taking it to another site. Not while calling it a deposit, at least.

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    Couldn’t that also be in place to appease credit card companies?
    I don’t know if anyone was actually doing this, but it took me about 30 seconds to figure out how that could be used against credit card companies…You could use FanDuel to facilitate a cash advance on your credit card. And you’d be able to do it at a standard APR, not the exorbitant cash loan rates. Not to mention you could also get cash back or whatever other perks you get from your card.
    Then there’s the whole “gambling” argument. There’s a reason you can;t go use your credit card to buy lotto tickets, As mentioned above, there can be high risks for charge backs, etc.

    I know in the past year or so there was some push back from banks/card companies who didn’t want to allow DFS deposits, so i would at least question if something like that is put in at their request as opposed to the sites being greedy or fearing money being moved to another site.

  • Zieg30

    • 470

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #97

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    @Heterodox said...

    They can’t hold your money hostage to prevent you from taking it to another site. Not while calling it a deposit, at least.

    I agree that they cannot reasonably refuse a withdrawal under these circumstances.

    A somewhat defensible position on their part would be to say “you can have it back, but then you are banned from using FD going forward.”

  • sethayates

    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    There’s a reason you can;t go use your credit card to buy lotto tickets

    I don’t think the actual reason is what you think it is. The Ohio Lottery pays 1% of lottery sales to the vendor. Typical credit card processing fees range from 1%-2.5%. I don’t believe there’s an actual law against selling lottery tickets on a credit card. Most companies simply won’t do it because the money it costs to process the transaction is more than they make off the sale. They would lose money by letting you do it.

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    I’ve asked for clarification about where they state that they only will pay out “winnings” but haven’t heard back. I couldn’t find it anywhere in the Terms of Use, but admittedly don’t have the time/energy to read through a document roughly 15+ pages long.

  • hcassidy

    @sethayates said...

    I don’t think the actual reason is what you think it is. The Ohio Lottery pays 1% of lottery sales to the vendor. Typical credit card processing fees range from 1%-2.5%. I don’t believe there’s an actual law against selling lottery tickets on a credit card. Most companies simply won’t do it because the money it costs to process the transaction is more than they make off the sale. They would lose money by letting you do it.

    You do realize high volume stores allow lottery sales in Ohio by CC. Hell Circle K allows it all the time if its a not individually owned. So that is flawed. I see the DFS sights holding winnings hostage when that single bullet is entered and you hit that big win but cant access your withdraw cause they say hey you deposited 50.00 but won 50k you get 50.00 on your withdraw. Not only is it unethical it is 100% illegal same as your now said FD policy. If its your money and you won it its yours period it doesn’t matter what you put in. Its same as a sportsbook or online poker you deposit x amount but hit that parlay or monster they can’t deny what you won period.

  • Duck911

    This is maddening. Although it may be buried deep in the legal language, holding deposits hostage feels like THEFT. At the very least, it’s very poor business practice.

    I am a very low stakes, very mediocre player. My lifetime ROI is right at break even. I spent 2 years making small deposits and building up a “bankroll” (via deposit, not so much winnings – see above).

    But because I will never win more than I deposit unless I become a positive ROI player, I will never ever see my cash again.

    I attempted a deposit a few weeks ago. Using some fake numbers, it looked something like this (numbers changed to protect my pride):

    Lifetime winnings: $3,400
    Current balance: $2,200
    Withdrawl request: $2,000

    DENIED.

    Pisses me off, enough that I may never make another deposit, play this money out, and be done with FD.

  • tomac

    How recent are we talking? I have never had this issue once in many years of depositing/withdrawing.

  • Duck911

    Last few weeks, for me.

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    FD got back with me and stated that:

    “The terms do not list every single specific situation in which we would deny a withdrawal as we could not possibly list all the various reasons that a withdrawal may not be processed. Additionally, we are tightening the security and the scope of our checks as a constant effort to protect our users.”

    What frustrated me about the whole thing is that I seemed to be getting two separate reasons for my withdrawal to be cancelled. First, it was that my “winnings” weren’t high enough. Then, it was that I didn’t play enough with the deposit before requesting the withdrawal.

    Again, I fully understand the rational behind both, but the lack of any clear guidelines other than FD deciding to deny the request based on their personal decision was the part that got under my skin and caused this to be in any way confusing to begin with. Had this been more clearly described this would never have been questioned on my end. I realize it is hard for sites to paint a black/white portrait for their community guidelines, but when you instead decide to do things the way they did it continues to grow the idea that sites operate in whatever way they feel necessary and as a result have very little consistency (which goes far beyond withdrawal issues).

    Regardless, I consider the issue to be closed (FD decided to give me my withdrawal as a one-time exception) and will certainly be more aware of this moving forward.

  • ohiostate241

    • 2014 FAFC Finalist

    • 2015 FAWBC Finalist

    This used to be a big problem for credit cards in the early stages of DFS. I know plenty of people that opened a no interest credit card maxed it out on Draftstreet or FanDuel played a few games and waited a few days and then withdrew it to get a free no interest loan for whatever the promotional period was.

  • QSchoolDropOut

    So does DK have a similar rule?

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @QSchoolDropOut said...

    So does DK have a similar rule?

    Not sure, although to be honest I’m still not quite clear what FD’s rules are. When the dust settled regarding this whole issue it really felt to me like FD has expectations they want to follow, but aren’t doing consistently enough which can lead to big problems. I’m all for having expectations of players regarding deposits/withdrawals, but this will only work if you let players know what they are. Having a statement along the lines of “we can’t tell you why we might flag your request” is not exactly a good business move in my opinion.

  • Sixers610

    tgowen, I’ve had the same exact issue before. Deposited and then needed to withdraw before actually playing the funds. They need to make things clear.

    I feel like DK is always on the up and up for me, Fanduel is not.

  • baggerly

    @Duck911 said...

    I attempted a deposit a few weeks ago. Using some fake numbers, it looked something like this (numbers changed to protect my pride):

    Lifetime winnings: $3,400
    Current balance: $2,200
    Withdrawl request: $2,000

    DENIED.

    Pisses me off, enough that I may never make another deposit, play this money out, and be done with FD.

    I’m really confused how this type of withdrawal (I’m assuming you meant withdrawal instead of deposit) would be declined. Really the only time a withdrawal should be declined is if you hadn’t run through your deposit (Deposit – Buy Ins). Once that number hits 0 it should be your money to do whatever you please.

  • Phinsfan83

    Yup they pulled the same stuff with me. I complained and got a check for what was left in my account. Its not right if you ask me its your money and you should have access to it when you want it. I play with the same money and move from site to site depending on sports and scoring. Only play MLB on FD and nothing else because of this horrible policy.

  • Roma315

    • 558

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #67

      RG Tiered Ranking

    I’ve never had this issue but are you depositing say $1000 enter $500 in contests then try to withdraw the remaining? They have rules like this in place for money laundering. If you weren’t going to play the $1000 you can just have them refund the money back to your cc.

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