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  • Olhausen

    Admin Note: There is a popular debate across the industry (as well as in this thread) about the differences between some of the major DFS research tool providers. If you’re interested in further reading, be sure to check out our FantasyLabs Review.

    Hey everyone, I started playing daily fantasy for my first time ever during opening week of baseball this season and I loved it instantly.I also had a lot of success that first week as I pulled in over 500$ from a 25$ deposit.

    My 2nd day I scored a 155 on dk and took 1st in two different smaller Gpp’s and won 300$ and won another 200$ over the next 3 days. I thought I was on my way to making easy money and maybe making a living off this but boy was I wrong.Things went from good to bad fast and I began to research day and night to see what I could do better and improve my scores and win more.I now look at all the stats BvsP woba L vs R home away splits Vegas odds and much more but still losing daily.

    Then last weekend I decided to play only Gpp’s and also stack teams.I stacked the giants when they played the Reds and I was winning over 1,600 for most of the night until the last hour.I ended up with 50$ and stacked a few teams on Saturday and Sunday and was up about 100$ over the weekend so I thought I was again on my way to winning big. So last Monday I started making about 15 lineups a day that were mostly 6 man stacks and a few 4-2-2 or some sort of mix and I agin I have failed this week and have become so frustrated that I have started to wonder if I should play at all.

    I am actually in a situation right now where I am able to spend all day on my research and lineup building just like a pro would which is why it is even more frustrating that I can’t win.I really would love to be able to do this for a living or even work in the dfs industry in some form or another because I love sports and I have all the time in the world to put into it right now.

    So I was hoping for feedback or suggestions from long time players or even some pros that have had some success in dfs on what I am doing wrong or what I can change to at least be even a little profitable.I am a big baseball and football fan so I know those sports a lot but not basketball or hockey so much.Thank you all for any feedback

  • NiamLeeson

    • 946

      RG Overall Ranking

    emac – I totally agree with you about numbers telling a different story and that’s why it’s important to not get swept up in the “big name” strategy. In the end, a player for $2,600 can often have a better day at the plate as a monster going off at $5,600, it just all depends on the conditions for that game.

    steveospeak and ataggart – You guys make some solid points but I still don’t believe that the whole “all in” strategy with two pitchers is a bad play, or even a risky one, so I guess I do have to give maxdalury props on that at least. I feel that any given day there is only a select number of pitchers who should even be considered and I find picking pitchers to be the easier part of DFS. The numbers tell the story and I often only have the same two/three pitchers in my lineups. Obviously I’m not entering 300 teams, but in the small GPP tournaments I’ve been talking about I often place higher than maxdalury, and that’s with fewer entries. Next week I will definitely take a closer look at his teams for tournaments like the Payoff Pitch using a CSV, but I have done that in the past and have formulated my opinions about maxdalury through that. What’s really mind-boggling is how one person not only has that huge of a bankroll but also has time to individually make 300 lineups on any given day. He’s got to have a team of chimps working for him like Mr. Burns did in “The Simpsons”, lol.

  • DrBurd

    @emac said...

    Sometimes it helps to look at things in a larger context to gain a different perspective.

    For example:

    The Blue Jays have scored 64 more runs than the second best offense this season. They have 11 players with 20+ RBI, even their back of the lineup hitters like Ryan Goins and Kevin Pillar have been producing.

    Yunel Escobar, “Bah, he sucks, I would never play him!” ~ EMac However, he is having a magical season and has had three games already with 5 hits and is among the league leaders for the batting title.

    Nori Aoki, Joe Panik, DJ LeMahieu, Jose Iglesias ….BOOOOORRRRRIIIIINNNNNGGGGG except that they are all in the top dozen for best batting average this season.

    Kendrys Morales, heck he is still in the League? Yes and he has the 15th most RBI this season with 46.

    Ben Revere, his only value is when he steals….true and if you pick your spots he is a nice H2H option against the right pitcher/catcher combination.

    Anyway, I just wanted to illustrate that DFS baseball is a unique game and often times it is better to look at the numbers rather than the name of the player they are attributed to. That is how you will start to see your results improve. in my humble opinion.

    Good Luck!

    EMac

    Very true, newbie here, would you say that MLB DFS is the most in-depth/diverse really ? I did a tiny tiny bit of NBA but nothing as serious as this MLB season.

    I try to study Pitchers splits, occasionally see if they have pitched against the team they are facing earlier in the season as well. I check out K% and really think about some bigger guys and their splits as well depending on handness.

    really focus on pitchers as that is where a good chuck of your $ is going.

  • AssaniFisher

    • 85

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #58

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @NiamLeeson said...

    But to enter 300 teams a day, and almost 1,000 in the biggest tournament gives a person a better chance to cash and go deep. If you are denying that then I don’t know what to say.

    It gives a person a better chance to cash and go deep in exact proportion to how much more money they are risking on entry fees. Your notion of EV is askew. If your average lineup is as +EV as maxdalury’s then there should be nothing stopping you from using proper bankroll management to win enough so that you can be putting in as many lineups as him. Conversely, if your average lineup is -EV then you will not be able to become +EV no matter how many lineups you put in.

    Maxdalury is really really good. You are missing out on a ton of the nuance in his strategies imo. Also why are you assuming that he entered DFS with a big bankroll? I don’t know about him personally, but I’d guess that the majority of top tier DFS pros built their bankrolls from DFS. The lower stakes games are the softest around, and anyone who has hopes of winning at the games maxdalury is regularly playing in should be able to quickly accumulate a bankroll through playing them.

  • 70sdubs

    @AssaniFisher said...

    It gives a person a better chance to cash and go deep in exact proportion to how much more money they are risking on entry fees. Your notion of EV is askew. If your average lineup is as +EV as maxdalury’s then there should be nothing stopping you from using proper bankroll management to win enough so that you can be putting in as many lineups as him. Conversely, if your average lineup is -EV then you will not be able to become +EV no matter how many lineups you put in.

    Maxdalury is really really good. You are missing out on a ton of the nuance in his strategies imo. Also why are you assuming that he entered DFS with a big bankroll? I don’t know about him personally, but I’d guess that the majority of top tier DFS pros built their bankrolls from DFS. The lower stakes games are the softest around, and anyone who has hopes of winning at the games maxdalury is regularly playing in should be able to quickly accumulate a bankroll through playing them.

    Pretty much this.

    If I wanted I could dedicate a huge bankroll towards this. But at my current skill level the only purpose that would serve would be to turn it into a small bankroll.

  • DrBurd

    @AssaniFisher said...

    It gives a person a better chance to cash and go deep in exact proportion to how much more money they are risking on entry fees. Your notion of EV is askew. If your average lineup is as +EV as maxdalury’s then there should be nothing stopping you from using proper bankroll management to win enough so that you can be putting in as many lineups as him. Conversely, if your average lineup is -EV then you will not be able to become +EV no matter how many lineups you put in.

    Maxdalury is really really good. You are missing out on a ton of the nuance in his strategies imo. Also why are you assuming that he entered DFS with a big bankroll? I don’t know about him personally, but I’d guess that the majority of top tier DFS pros built their bankrolls from DFS. The lower stakes games are the softest around, and anyone who has hopes of winning at the games maxdalury is regularly playing in should be able to quickly accumulate a bankroll through playing them.

    I miss your RG avi :)

  • Cityworkout

    @DrBurd said...

    I miss your RG avi :)

    You can’t assume that most top tier DFS players built their BR from DFS. Enough people already have a good BR or are from a good background.

  • ChoppoDong

    @LanceS said...

    You can’t assume that most top tier DFS players built their BR from DFS. Enough people already have a good BR or are from a good background.

    This.

    Many came from poker. I’m sure others have money from other sources. With as much variance as is in DFS (especially baseball), I can’t fathom they “quickly” built a five figure bankroll from DFS alone (unless they hit a massive tourney payout, jumped a few levels, and were able to stay there) ……at least not most of the heavier hitters.

    That said, the smaller games are softer, but just like a poker table, that doesn’t make them easier to beat, either. Variance is enormous, and often times the complete crap lineup on paper goes off. I liken it to a newbie poker player that has no clue what he/she is doing……making them incredibly difficult to read in any specific hand. You just keep playing the percentages against them until they lose their money or learn to get better.

  • yh4j

    Hey Assani,
    did you build up your current BR purely from DFS?

  • AssaniFisher

    • 85

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #58

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @ChoppoDong said...

    This.

    Many came from poker. I’m sure others have money from other sources. With as much variance as is in DFS (especially baseball), I can’t fathom they “quickly” built a five figure bankroll from DFS alone (unless they hit a massive tourney payout, jumped a few levels, and were able to stay there) ……at least not most of the heavier hitters.

    That said, the smaller games are softer, but just like a poker table, that doesn’t make them easier to beat, either. Variance is enormous, and often times the complete crap lineup on paper goes off. I liken it to a newbie poker player that has no clue what he/she is doing……making them incredibly difficult to read in any specific hand. You just keep playing the percentages against them until they lose their money or learn to get better.

    I think most of the top guys are too sharp to do it that way. In any field of gambling that you are new to, you want to make yourself work your way up the stakes. Your skill in your former area of expertise may not necessarily translate to the new field, and working your way up the small stakes is the only way to know that you should be playing high stakes.

    In the early days of poker you would often hear talk of “moving up(in stakes) to where they’d respect your raises”, the insinuation being that these players who couldn’t beat small stakes would be able to beat mid/high stakes. This proved to be patently false, and I see a lot of similarities between that and the idea that guys who can’t build a bankroll at DFS small stakes would be able to win if they had the necessary bankroll to play mid/high stakes(or mass multi-entry GPPs).

    I’m not sure what you mean by “the smaller games are softer, but that doesn’t make them easier to beat.” Thats the very definition of “softer”, so yes it does. Variance is indeed a big issue, and I would guess that most people successful at moving up through the small stakes employed strategies that were specifically designed to limit variance.

  • AssaniFisher

    • 85

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #58

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @yh4j said...

    Hey Assani,
    did you build up your current BR purely from DFS?

    My initial DraftKings deposit was somewhere $500-1000, and I probably would’ve been willing to deposit around $2000 more before giving up on DFS. I built it up from that. Immediately before DFS I was playing low stakes poker($.5/1-$1/2 online, $2/5 live) and didn’t have a huge bankroll.

  • DrBurd

    @LanceS said...

    You can’t assume that most top tier DFS players built their BR from DFS. Enough people already have a good BR or are from a good background.

    Im referring to another site where he had a awesome picture up :)

  • btwice80

    @diamondhoggers said...

    What the hell are they doing different? They must have a killer algorithm.

    Not all successful players use algorithms/projection systems. The only thing I use Excel for is to look at results. I don’t even use RG’s lineup builder.

    As for how I got my bankroll, it came from DFS. I did make a few deposits, so I would put my starting point at about $1000. I won my season-long NBA league last year at the beginning of MLB season (my first full DFS MLB season) and deposited that $300 on FD, but my balance there was still under $1000, and by the end of the season it was over $3000. The huge leaps after that came from big GPP scores obviously, but I’ve never had hundreds of entries at a time. My biggest wins have all been when I had 10-16 entries, and one of them was my NBA cash game lineup.

    There is no magic potion. I still get quite frustrated with DFS at times. Good luck to everyone.

  • yh4j

    @AssaniFisher said...

    My initial DraftKings deposit was somewhere $500-1000, and I probably would’ve been willing to deposit around $2000 more before giving up on DFS. I built it up from that. Immediately before DFS I was playing low stakes poker($.5/1-$1/2 online, $2/5 live) and didn’t have a huge bankroll.

    Assani,
    That’s impressive. How long did that take you to grind up to your current legendary status?
    Any particular tools you recommend?

  • Olhausen

    One thing I notice with a lot of great players is that they are playing in smaller but high stakes 50/50 or head to head games. I am playing in Gpp’s only because I feel that is what I’m best at. I have been good at narrowing 10 teams I like with 2-3 pitchers and throwing 6-14 lineups in some Gpp’s. I would like to go back to playing some 50/50 or heads up but don’t have the confidence in making one lineup to put in 30 or more cash games. It would be nice to make some money back on the nights I don’t cash in my Gpp’s. If anyone has some suggestions for me I would gladly listen to them.

  • AssaniFisher

    • 85

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #58

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @yh4j said...

    Assani,
    That’s impressive. How long did that take you to grind up to your current legendary status?
    Any particular tools you recommend?

    Started playing in September 2014, ran it up to just under $25k by December but lost it all back, and was actually a losing career NBA player as of 2/20/15. Then things really started to click for me(and I ran super hot), and I crushed it during the last 3 months of NBA season.

    Nowadays I use pretty much every well known site out there. They all have some value imo. More importantly, the process of discovering for yourself the positive aspects of each site is what really grows you as a player imo. Start with the free ones and add some pay sources as your bankroll allows. Really immerse yourself in the learning process. I was putting in 8+ hour days quite often during that September-February stretch, so you can imagine how frustrating it must’ve been to be putting in all that work and have no monetary gains to show for it…but in the end, it pays off because your skill level grows.

    Also I would suggest finding people slightly better than you, find a way you can contribute to their cause, and learn from them. For example, I haven’t watched a MLB game in over 5 years, yet I am able to participate in a Skype chat with some great baseball minds. They allow me in their group because I take the initiative on doing a lot of the grunt work(such as gathering team run totals, win %, and strikeout O/Us for all the day’s pitchers), I read daily site writeups before entering the conversation so that I can at least contribute something worthwhile, and I am willing to return the favor in sports I know more about. Coming from a poker background and having lots of poker friends was obviously a huge head start for me in this regard, but I have to think this is do-able for anyone who goes about it the right way(i.e. don’t seek out people way better than you and expect them to just give you free picks without you contributing anything at all).

  • AssaniFisher

    • 85

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #58

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @Olhausen said...

    l

    edit: I’m responding to this post, which for some reason didn’t appear correctly above:

    “One thing I notice with a lot of great players is that they are playing in smaller but high stakes 50/50 or head to head games. I am playing in Gpp’s only because I feel that is what I’m best at. I have been good at narrowing 10 teams I like with 2-3 pitchers and throwing 6-14 lineups in some Gpp’s. I would like to go back to playing some 50/50 or heads up but don’t have the confidence in making one lineup to put in 30 or more cash games. It would be nice to make some money back on the nights I don’t cash in my Gpp’s. If anyone has some suggestions for me I would gladly listen to them.”

    Theres nothing stopping you from playing 2 or 3 LU variations in cash games every day. There should be certain great plays that appear on all of your teams, but sacrificing tiny amounts of EV in order to diversify(and thus minimize variance) is a common practice among pros.

  • yh4j

    @AssaniFisher said...

    Started playing in September 2014, ran it up to just under $25k by December but lost it all back, and was actually a losing career NBA player as of 2/20/15. Then things really started to click for me(and I ran super hot), and I crushed it during the last 3 months of NBA season.

    Nowadays I use pretty much every well known site out there. They all have some value imo. More importantly, the process of discovering for yourself the positive aspects of each site is what really grows you as a player imo. Start with the free ones and add some pay sources as your bankroll allows. Really immerse yourself in the learning process. I was putting in 8+ hour days quite often during that September-February stretch, so you can imagine how frustrating it must’ve been to be putting in all that work and have no monetary gains to show for it…but in the end, it pays off because your skill level grows.

    Also I would suggest finding people slightly better than you, find a way you can contribute to their cause, and learn from them. For example, I haven’t watched a MLB game in over 5 years, yet I am able to participate in a Skype chat with some great baseball minds. They allow me in their group because I take the initiative on doing a lot of the grunt work(such as gathering team run totals, win %, and strikeout O/Us for all the day’s pitchers), I read daily site writeups before entering the conversation so that I can at least contribute something worthwhile, and I am willing to return the favor in sports I know more about. Coming from a poker background and having lots of poker friends was obviously a huge head start for me in this regard, but I have to think this is do-able for anyone who goes about it the right way(i.e. don’t seek out people way better than you and expect them to just give you free picks without you contributing anything at all).

    Assani,
    I am impressed by your dedication to DFS and your willingness to share your story. You are definitely one of the top dogs in DFS. Just curious, how much did you reload in Feb?

  • MastenPark

    @Yukerboy said...

    Required reading

    Thanks for posting the link to that article. As someone who has not started my DFS hobby/career yet that was a needed pre wake up call for me to what to avoid from the start.

    Also big shout out to “Thehasyone” for writing that blog, That took alot of guts to write that and I think I learned more about DFS in that one article than most of the “Tip” articles I came across so far. For that I will respect you always bro. Sometimes in life we half to take 2 steps back to take 3 steps forward. Good luck in your DFS games going foward – unless we are going H2H or are in the same GPP tourney lol…….

  • AssaniFisher

    • 85

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #58

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @yh4j said...

    Just curious, how much did you reload in Feb?

    Looking at my transaction history now, it seems as if I never did have to reload(I was a career winner overall due to NFL). But I distinctly remember that at my low point my account was at $900 and thats when my run started.

  • jimmyrad

    Interesting insights (and stats) in both threads Assani. Thanks for sharing.

  • CZYX

    • 64

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #2

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @AssaniFisher appreciate you sharing. i think everyone would agree you have cemented your legendary status with these stats in such a short period of time.

    How do you manage the high volume approach on a daily basis? Do you manually click enter?

  • Olhausen

    I’m actually really glad to see this thread going strong and I hope continues. I want to give a big thank you to Assanifisher as its nice to get some insight from a player of his caliber.

  • broncs4sb

    • Blogger of the Month

    What about a forward somersault back flip with a 360 degree triple bearded reverse?

  • AssaniFisher

    • 85

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #58

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x6

      2016 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @CZYX said...

    How do you manage the high volume approach on a daily basis? Do you manually click enter?

    Yea just manually do it all….I have the system down pretty well by now, so i just throw on some music and click away for a while multiple times throughout the day.

  • HinesMak84

    please provide feedback I’d greatly appreciate it.

    so i just started. I did a bunch of research and created 30 teams spread out over multiple head to head, large tournys and a few 50/50. In one 2,000 per tourney. it was 5 per team and total of 100k in winnings. One guy names “THECLONE” has won about 48,000 payouts so clearly he’s good. not sure how. I went through all the names in the 2000 person list. Found he made brought 40-60 lineups. But what I found odd were there were bunches of 3-4 duplicate rosters. He ended up getting 1st,2nd,3rd,4th overall and a bunch of small places. So he won 5,525 for each 1st through 4th for total of 20,000k about.

    My questions are while he clearly benefitted from making duplicate exact lineups since he won I don’t see the point of making a bunch of lineups exactly the same in the same tournament. I understand 50 teams that for the most part were only slightly different. But no the duplicate teams and a bunch of ppl do it.

    Also most of his players weren’t from this sites top suggested players of the day. a lot were ppl i never would of guessed to choose from all my research. SO my last question is the best way to win big in these large tourneys. Making 50-75 teams in one league. Only slightly varied and make a few of each???. Bankroll is not an issue as a can dedicate a few thousand dollars to seeing if i can make this work so spending $500 on a $5 buy in 10k first prize is something i can do. I am trying to look at the top players who are winning and i know behind the sceanes a lot of research goes into it. but is making that many teams and mostly identical with some players swaps the way to go?

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