BANKROLL FORUM

Comments

  • killab2482

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    Just wanted to make everyone aware of the insanely high juice FanDuel is charging in their championship tourneys. Currently the juice would be 16.92% at the $2 price point and a crazy 15.89% at the $535 ( this is if these tourneys sell out). The allure of a live final is not worth busting your bankroll over i assure you that. I can guarantee the DFS masses that noone will have an edge to beat the $535 tourney in the long run against top flight competition. The only winner here: Fanduel. Discuss….

  • MrFantasy

    I totally agree. I don’t understand why so many top players are drawn to live finals. I understand maybe allotting a few bullets here and there to try and get in but it’s the same guys in these events all the time.

  • Gateman07

    • 2013 StarStreet NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Live finals are a great tool for self-promotion, that’s really the only reason top players chase them. Beyond the rake itself, a large part of the prize “package” if you do happen to win goes towards putting on the event rather than the prize pool of the event itself (the Fanduel example here takes $300k out of the package value to put on the event). The ROI is horrible, but for extremely profitable players the self-promotion is worth it.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    just seems too similar to Playboy Mansion when it comes to size and payout (and location! lol….Hollywood is 10 miles away from the Mansion)

  • WhiskeyTavon4

    • 729

      RG Overall Ranking

    • x2

      2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Damn you math. Now I feel like a complete donkey for entering the $535q last night.

  • Nookx

    Rake is the biggest problem the industry will face long term. The rake is too high in these games.

  • papagates

    • 4

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #5

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2016 $1M Prize Winner

    • x3

      2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @killab2482 said...

    Just wanted to make everyone aware of the insanely high juice FanDuel is charging in their championship tourneys. Currently the juice would be 16.92% at the $2 price point and a crazy 15.89% at the $535 ( this is if these tourneys sell out). The allure of a live final is not worth busting your bankroll over i assure you that. I can guarantee the DFS masses that noone will have an edge to beat the $535 tourney in the long run against top flight competition. The only winner here: Fanduel. Discuss….

    Exactly. Add this ridiculous rake to the fact that each trip package is valued at $4k, for a trip that I for one would never pay $4k for, and the rake gets much closer to 30%. I will not be attempting to qualify for this event unless substantial overlay occurs. This rake is starting to get ridiculous and no one is saying anything. We gotta talk with our wallet’s, or this rake is gonna keep getting more ridiculous.

  • poppaspicks

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    If anyone thinks they have an edge at a $535 game that’s sporting a 15.89% rake…

    I played almost exclusively on FD last season just because I didn’t want to pay attention to late breaking news every single night. With their lack of transparency by not offering a csv download, the trend to constantly having top heavy payouts at the higher levels (monster), and the continue rise of the rake, I’m playing less and less on FD. I’m not sure people realize how difficult it is to be profitable when the rake is 15%+.

    Not really sure what kind of business plan FD is employing…If I was an investor, I’d be very worried about this issue. To rake a $535 buy in at these levels is absurd. Its almost as if FD doesn’t realize that the players playing in these contests are the ones that make up for a large, steady flow of their revenue? Maybe it lasts long enough to pay the lawyers, maybe not. But long term, the only type of investor I would be with this current “business plan” in place, would be a short seller. Hopefully they turn it around but I think we all know where this current track leads…

  • L3gOnD

    @Nookx said...

    Rake is the biggest problem the industry will face long term. The rake is too high in these games.

    This is the truth. The more people start to understand what the rake does to profitability the more players will leave the game.
    One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is how rake, in effect, takes skill out of the game. For the sites to be able to show people are consistently profitable is how they are able to prove it is a skill game. While rake keeps increasing the only way to profit will be off of a big hit or two throughout a series of time. This will lead to profitability only for those winning contests and getting big hits (not consistent cash flow as it will be to difficult to achieve at high rakes). I am not sure what their long-term thought process is on these increased rakes but it is taking the skill out of the game and making it more of a lottery system. If rake were at 30% the only way to profit long-term is winning multiple GPPs throughout the year…a lottery style. Don’t get me wrong; great GPP players exist and cash routinely, however this won’t be profitable nor will cash games if rake keeps increasing. The same companies that are fighting for skill to be what the game is about are the same people that are taking the skill out of the game. Rake is the biggest issue in DFS.

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    @MrFantasy said...

    I totally agree. I don’t understand why so many top players are drawn to live finals. I understand maybe allotting a few bullets here and there to try and get in but it’s the same guys in these events all the time.

    For many, it’s about building their brand. If you’re okay chasing a six figure income, you don’t need the big two.

  • awesemo

    • 1

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #1

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x5

      2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x3

      2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    There’s also 16% rake on the DK qualifiers, FWIW

  • dude_abides7

    Rake is 16% = Lawyers cost money

  • 1greatbuyz

    • x3

      2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @poppaspicks said...

    Not really sure what kind of business plan FD is employing…If I was an investor, I’d be very worried about this issue. To rake a $535 buy in at these levels is absurd. Its almost as if FD doesn’t realize that the players playing in these contests are the ones that make up for a large, steady flow of their revenue? Maybe it lasts long enough to pay the lawyers, maybe not. But long term, the only type of investor I would be with this current “business plan” in place, would be a short seller. Hopefully they turn it around but I think we all know where this current track leads…

    This sounds about right.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    I don’t care about rake.

    When I see a 30 person tournament for $1065 buy in and a 5 entry limit, my first thought is – I enter 5 lineups and i’m likely to win it and go to a live final The word rake doesn’t cross my mind, I never have a negative mindset like that.

    Rake is rake, sites need to make money too or else they won’t exist. Live finals are live finals – not everyone can qualify, only the best of the best, so if you give me 59 other people to go against at a $535 buy-in, I do not sit there and calculate rake – I just sit there and try to create a strategy on how to win that qualifier…..I’m just numb to useless stuff like “rake”

  • 1greatbuyz

    • x3

      2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Its all Rotogrinders fault……… The sites figure these fancy little trophies are worth a few extra percentage points of rake!

  • 1greatbuyz

    • x3

      2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @Ryazan said...

    I’m just numb to useless stuff like “rake”

    What?

  • dude_abides7

    @Ryazan said...

    I don’t care about rake.

    That’s because you self admittedly are less concerned with bankroll management. Simply stated, rake % increase has a direct coloration to profitability, over time. The higher the rake, the harder it is to profit, long term, because it forces a higher win %.

    And before you start, no…this is not “loser” mentality. The real pros in DFS take rake into account when allocating their bankroll. You see…the people that use the law of averages and probabilities as supposed to “confidence and passion” use things like math to help determine what their exposure should be within any contest or slate.

  • baseballs

    it’s obvious ryazan doesn’t understand the difference between “i’ll charge you $100 to try to win $x,xxx” vs. “i’ll charge you $50 to try to win $x,xxx”.

  • killab2482

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @Ryazan said...

    I don’t care about rake.

    When I see a 30 person tournament for $1065 buy in and a 5 entry limit, my first thought is – I enter 5 lineups and i’m likely to win it and go to a live final The word rake doesn’t cross my mind, I never have a negative mindset like that.

    Rake is rake, sites need to make money too or else they won’t exist. Live finals are live finals – not everyone can qualify, only the best of the best, so if you give me 59 other people to go against at a $535 buy-in, I do not sit there and calculate rake – I just sit there and try to create a strategy on how to win that qualifier…..I’m just numb to useless stuff like “rake”

    Well it sounds like Fanduel should have a variable rake based upon each specific player’s threshold to play the game. Looks like Ryazan would be okay with 100% rake. This mentality will make you go bust in the near future. GL with your rake-ignorance approach though.

  • 1greatbuyz

    • x3

      2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @killab2482 said...

    Well it sounds like Fanduel should have a variable rake based upon each specific player’s threshold to play the game.

    Now your on to something. This would really level the playing field!!!

  • awesemo

    • 1

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #1

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x5

      2019 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • x3

      2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    The problem is the sites realize that qualifying for these events has a significant value in status associated with it. As FantasyShane put it, “Girls like guys who qualify for live finals.”

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @killab2482 said...

    Well it sounds like Fanduel should have a variable rake based upon each specific player’s threshold to play the game. Looks like Ryazan would be okay with 100% rake. This mentality will make you go bust in the near future. GL with your rake-ignorance approach though.

    I don’t notice small differences in rake as long as the contest pays out well and looks beatable. I don’t factor fluctuating rake differences from day to day, it’s not part of my process – I focus more on lineups and choosing contests that pay out the way I like.

  • monds6

    • 157

      RG Overall Ranking

    • x2

      2015 DraftKings FCFWC Finalist

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSFC Finalist

    Live finals are money sucks and you can throw bankroll management out the window. I do enter contests in attempt to make it to the finals but not everyday. Small tourney with big paydays are alluring. However, I won’t invest tons of money into qualifying. If I do, great, if I don’t no worries. I am content plugging along in the other tournaments offered.

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @killab2482 said...

    Well it sounds like Fanduel should have a variable rake based upon each specific player’s threshold to play the game. Looks like Ryazan would be okay with 100% rake. This mentality will make you go bust in the near future. GL with your rake-ignorance approach though.

    see I really don’t like your comment here, so I want to expand on it further right now:

    Fanduel just put out Baller #2, 20 total people and 25% of the field gets paid with 8K to first. That 25% payout is golden in my eyes, much better than other tournaments daily, and an 8K 1st prize is never anything to sneeze at. Did I sit there and look at/calculate “rake”? NO, because it doesn’t matter to me, the contest looks good where it matters to me. If it’s 20 people and only 3 get paid out, I won’t join it – rake has nothing to do with it.

    Looking at rake and analyzing it is a sure way to screw yourself with paralysis by analysis instead of looking at more important factors, such as payouts, overlay, competition, slate, confidence, strategy.

  • baseballs

    honest question. what order would you rank “payouts, overlay, competition, slate, confidence, strategy”?

  • Ryazan

    • x3

      2015 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • x2

      2015 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @baseballs said...

    honest question. what order would you rank “payouts, overlay, competition, slate, confidence, strategy”?

    confidence, slate, payouts, strategy, overlay, competition

    As an example, if I feel REALLY good about one lineup of set players, I would enter it no matter what the slate, payouts, ect.

    If it’s a perfect slate, but I don’t have supreme confidence in my lineups, i’ll still enter it into the right GPP

    If my strategy is to have 5 lineups on that night and I have a good mix of 5 lineups, i’ll enter it into every 5 limit entry large buy in/satellite to Super Baller I can get my hands on

    IF there is major overlay somewhere, i’ll enter a few in there no matter what

    If I see a $1065 50/50 and more than 4 names in there are random people I don’t recognize, I enter it without much hesitation, even if the slate sucks and I’m not too confident in my main lineup

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