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  • Boooooourns

    • 2016 DraftKings FHWC Finalist

    Same old complaint…

    If I enter 2 lineups in a GPP and one cashes, I shouldn’t lose money.

    Change the min cash payouts!

  • mnstone14

    stop playing gpps, totally in your control if youre unhappy. simple solution, right?

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Boooooourns said...

    Same old complaint…

    If I enter 2 lineups in a GPP and one cashes, I shouldn’t lose money.

    Change the min cash payouts!

    How much you think you should make on a lineup that barely makes the top 20% ?

  • mike291md

    For bubbling in, you should at least get your money back. What’s sad is when you get less than the buy-in back. That is in no sense “a win” of any sort.

    Look, we get that top 10 or bust is the main mentality but the problem is everyone outside of the top 10 gets basically a bag of chips and a thanks for playing card. How does that entice people long-term?

    These big GPP’s, you are going against thousands to hundreds of thousands of lineups….you should be rewarded better than just for 10 places.

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @mike291md said...

    For bubbling in, you should at least get your money back. What’s sad is when you get less than the buy-in back. That is in no sense “a win” of any sort.

    Look, we get that top 10 or bust is the main mentality but the problem is everyone outside of the top 10 gets basically a bag of chips and a thanks for playing card. How does that entice people long-term?

    These big GPP’s, you are going against thousands to hundreds of thousands of lineups….you should be rewarded better than just for 10 places.

    I have never min cashed an entry and got less than my buy in

  • bigez952

    @Boooooourns said...

    Same old complaint…

    If I enter 2 lineups in a GPP and one cashes, I shouldn’t lose money.

    Change the min cash payouts!

    You could just only enter 1 lineup instead of two so a min cash still puts you ahead.

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @bigez952 said...

    You could just only enter 1 lineup instead of two so a min cash still puts you ahead.

    Yep , this seems like a quite simple concept to me

  • jmo26

    Despite the nonsense above, your complaint is totally valid. I would love to return to the min cash being 2x, with top 20% cashing. Far better for the entire ecosystem.

  • bigez952

    @TnRiddles said...

    Yep , this seems like a quite simple concept to me

    Then the only way you can ever cash and lose money is if you tie with 2+ people for the very last payspot which doesn’t happen all that often.

  • bigez952

    @jmo26 said...

    Despite the nonsense above, your complaint is totally valid. I would love to return to the min cash being 2x, with top 20% cashing. Far better for the entire ecosystem.

    No system will please everyone. For me who primarily plays 1 lineup per slate I like the top 25% 1.5X payouts as I can throw my cash lineup into a GPP and the cash lines are not that far out from the double ups so I can treat them like cash games but with the opportunity of some upside. I can see how strictly GPP players would want contests that only pay out top 10% or something like that.

    The problem with all these complaints on these forums is everyone has different opinions on what they want to see so the sites are always in a lose / lose situation and they can’t make everyone happy no matter what they do.

    In my opinion the perfect set up would be 2X min cashes with top 25% payout and a greatly reduced payout that goes into the top 10 so the overall pay structure would be fairly flat. However I know many for sure wouldn’t go for that.

  • dolphinkick182

    Take 1st then you don’t have to rant.

  • mike291md

    I have and in fact I have had it happen recently. I bubbled in for a .25 cent MLB tourney and got back .05 cents. I get that .25 cents is .25 cents but can you at least give people their entry fee back for placing?

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    @mike291md said...

    I have and in fact I have had it happen recently. I bubbled in for a .25 cent MLB tourney and got back .05 cents. I get that .25 cents is .25 cents but can you at least give people their entry fee back for placing?

    there had to be a bunch of ties for that last pay tier for that to happen. the structure wasnt designed that way

  • anthonyjamesyates

    @Boooooourns said...

    Same old complaint…

    If I enter 2 lineups in a GPP and one cashes, I shouldn’t lose money.

    Change the min cash payouts!

    Rememeber when min cash used to be 2.5x entry? So $5 would get you $12.50 and $10 gets you $25 etc. It was perfect.. now $5 gets you $8 and $10 gets you $15.

  • DSofM

    • 92

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #15

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2020 NASCAR Live Finalist

    • Blogger of the Month

    @TnRiddles said...

    there had to be a bunch of ties for that last pay tier for that to happen. the structure wasnt designed that way

    I’m pretty sure he’s saying he was returned 30 cents for his 25 cent investment. There is a 0.00% chance he cashed for 5 cents in a 25 cent buy in.

  • mike291md

    @DSofM said...

    I’m pretty sure he’s saying he was returned 30 cents for his 25 cent investment. There is a 0.00% chance he cashed for 5 cents in a 25 cent buy in.

    No. I literally received back 5 cents for a .25 cent entry free in that MLB tourney where I bubbled in.

    Update: So I went fishing through my contest history to find the contest and I can’t locate it….which is odd. Maybe the site was wonky that day and I received back .50 cents? It was from an early slate MLB. Oh well..I don’t know, maybe it was the same day their servers ended up crashing.

  • bigez952

    @mike291md said...

    No. I literally received back 5 cents for a .25 cent entry free in that MLB tourney where I bubbled in.

    Update: So I went fishing through my contest history to find the contest and I can’t locate it….which is odd. Maybe the site was wonky that day and I received back .50 cents? It was from an early slate MLB. Oh well..I don’t know, maybe it was the same day their servers ended up crashing.

    I can 100% guarantee you tied with someone to split the final min cash payout spot as no structure pays out less than your entry if you don’t have to share a payout spot.

  • Kmasonbx

    @DSofM said...

    I’m pretty sure he’s saying he was returned 30 cents for his 25 cent investment. There is a 0.00% chance he cashed for 5 cents in a 25 cent buy in.

    It’s possible. I believe this happens when there are a bunch of entries tied for that last cash spot. I’ve seen numerous times where the min cash ended up being less than the buy-in it actually happened to me for the first time last week.

  • Kmasonbx

    I agree with the notion that min cash should be double the buy-in but that will never happen because people are in love with the allure of the large 1st price and then the top heavy payouts are a buy product of that since you can’t have 20K 1st place followed by a 3k 2nd place so the top 10 and in a lot of cases the top 5 gets all the money and everything else is diluted.

    Honestly what I don’t understand about GPPs is why is there a max entry? Back in my poker playing days tournaments would have a guaranteed prize pool and then as soon as the entrants went over that amount the payouts would adjust accordingly. Why is this not a thing in DFS?

  • bigez952

    @Kmasonbx said...

    I agree with the notion that min cash should be double the buy-in but that will never happen because people are in love with the allure of the large 1st price and then the top heavy payouts are a buy product of that since you can’t have 20K 1st place followed by a 3k 2nd place so the top 10 and in a lot of cases the top 5 gets all the money and everything else is diluted.

    Honestly what I don’t understand about GPPs is why is there a max entry? Back in my poker playing days tournaments would have a guaranteed prize pool and then as soon as the entrants went over that amount the payouts would adjust accordingly. Why is this not a thing in DFS?

    It is because that type of structure is not legal. Through the loop hole of the online game act all prizes have to be guaranteed with the structures posted in advance to run so they can’t have open ended contests. If they could it would make life way easier for the sites to offer large games and not have to worry about overlay.

  • bigez952

    @Kmasonbx said...

    It’s possible. I believe this happens when there are a bunch of entries tied for that last cash spot. I’ve seen numerous times where the min cash ended up being less than the buy-in it actually happened to me for the first time last week.

    What I don’t understand is why would that even be a complaint to the sites as they could make min cashes 10X your buy in and in theory you could still win less than your buy in if you tie with enough people for the last spot. You can’t expect sites to guarantee getting at least your buy in back so when a lineup seller’s lineup hits the bubble with 125 entries the site is left footing the bill to payout everyone their entry fee back.

  • Kmasonbx

    @bigez952 said...

    It is because that type of structure is not legal. Through the loop hole of the online game act all prizes have to be guaranteed with the structures posted in advance to run so they can’t have open ended contests. If they could it would make life way easier for the sites to offer large games and not have to worry about overlay.

    Ah really? That’s pretty dumb. It would make so much more sense for what’s posted to be the minimum guaranteed prize pool and then allow them to grow based on entries.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    I miss the days on Fanduel where GPP’s paid about 10% deep and a min cash was at least 3x. That is probably too extreme but I’d like to see something in between that and where we are today. Personally I’d probably vote for GPP’s to pay about 15-18% deep (no more than 20%) and a min cash is at least 2-2.5x payout.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @bigez952 said...

    It is because that type of structure is not legal. Through the loop hole of the online game act all prizes have to be guaranteed with the structures posted in advance to run so they can’t have open ended contests. If they could it would make life way easier for the sites to offer large games and not have to worry about overlay.

    Agree with the above. But technically these one game “showdown” contests are not legal under that loophole though either.

  • Njsum1

    The sites could flatten the payout structure and offer GPPs where 20 to 25% still get paid and min cash is a double up, and this is my preferred structure, yet people want to chase a huge top prize, even if it’s against their best interests. I see people post all the time, on these forums, that if top prize isn’t big enough, it isn’t worth their time.

    And enough with this nonsense about splitting a min cash, yes that happens, yet that is not the problem people are referring to. The problem is that min cash is often 1.5x the buy in if you didn’t happen to bubble cash, as most min cashes are not bubble cashes.

    I digress, people would rather chase the dangled carrot then grind out a profit in flatter more EV friendly contests. I don’t blame the sites for this top heavy structure, I blame the participants who want to chase a big top prize, and could care less about a modest profit. Seems like the sites are just giving people what they want.

  • bucherpsu08

    Most days, there are multiple $1 and $2 contests with 2x for min cashes. I always look at the payout structure before entering a contest. Most of the time I will just run trains in those cheap contests rather than entering the usual $5 contest yielding $8 for a min cash.

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