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  • repojoker

    I might get killed for this, but I have been playing DFS since early 2012 and have a huge complaint. I have a normal job and play recreationally as I think most people do. I don’t have the time (or aptitude) to do what the great DFS players can do. What the best players do in my opinion is unreal, how they develop algos that predict outcomes is unreal. I have the utmost respect for them. Where I lose respect for them is the other day when I went to play a $3 and $5 double up on DK, I saw Max (saal) and Empiremaker2 in these contests. My serious question is why? Do they do it to just pad their bankroll? To me, anything below $25 is where the newbies and beginners play. For advanced players to play in these games is a joke to me and completely unfair. They crush the competition and run them out. Then they have the gall, to try and sell them lineups (max)? Imagine walking into the Belagio and seeing Phil Ivey playing a 3-6 Limit holdem game. Never happen in a million years because his TIME is too valuable. But these guys create lineups, and enter them everywhere. In my opinion it’s just bad business…

    I was curios what others opinions are. If I am in the minority, or wrong, they I will keep my mouth shut and continue to donate to their bankroll until I decide it’s no fun anymore…

    Thx in advance….

  • donkshow

    • 812

      RG Overall Ranking

    When you make a team on DK, you can click “Enter lineup in all contests”. It’s as simple as that. It’s why Saahil is in all the freerolls and stuff, too.

  • Bighouse55

    This issue will be the death of DFS in my opinion. Player pool will shrink too much to have decent contests.

  • BKLionKing

    The one word you capitalized in your entire post is the one that makes your point the weakest.

    Time isn’t an issue like it is in poker.

  • feekdogg

    I’ve beat this drum too. As we speak, I’m in a $2, 3-man league with hoop2410. I had to play CSURam yesterday. It’s unavoidable.

  • repojoker

    That’s my point, when it is as easy as clicking the mouse and entering contests, it is a joke in my opinion. My point is people will get tired of playing against the greats and move onto the next thing. You wouldn’t play online poker against Durr would you? Especially when they have so many more resources and time against the common folks….

  • pal

    Hmmm… it sounds like this max guy is a bit of a turd.

  • walkoff9

    It would be a pretty easy fix for the sites, just limit the overall number of entries players can have.

    But they are not going to do that unless they actually see enough people stop playing because of it, which i don’t think is going to happen.

    Sure you would not go play phil ivey 1 on 1, or sit at a table with him and a bunch of pros, but your not going to avoid a tournament with 100k people because hes in it.

  • yanks237

    I think the casual player is going to continue to play especially with NFL. The guy that reads an article or two a day or listens to a podcast will see that big prize number and won’t think about the opposition. What it is going to affect is the so called “middle class” of players.

    Those who don’t enter a lineup at 12:45 Sunday morning as they sit down at there couch, but also those who don’t make a living off of playing DFS. I would say for the most part the majority of players on this site. Those looking to grind cash every day developing a bankroll. Eventually we will be eliminated by the sharks of the world, while a small percentage of us will gain an edge and become a shark ourselves.

    That is the group I am most worried about with DFS. I think the average joe will throw in $50 into his account every few weeks and throw some GPP lineups together last minute, but the middle class of players will dwindle and either be forced to become casual players, quit all together, or the small percent will join the sharks.

    The latter is what is enticing about DFS, there is no reason the casual grinder can’t join the sharks, we just have to find our edge and develop a process that works for our limited time.

  • manBEAST

    One solution is to play on the smaller sites where the pros don’t have the time to play. There are many good ones out there, DK and FD are tournaments only for me. Changes are coming with all the regulation in the meantime find a site you enjoy playing on and profit.

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @manBEAST said...

    One solution is to play on the smaller sites where the pros don’t have the time to play. There are many good ones out there, DK and FD are tournaments only for me. Changes are coming with all the regulation in the meantime find a site you enjoy playing on and profit.

    Unfortunately this isn’t true. This weekend I played in a $1 4 man 50/50 on FantasyDraft and two of the players I was up against were top 200 Overall Ranked Grinders (one of them was a top 5 ranked Heavyweight).

  • Yombo

    I want to play more 3 mans but there’s always a heavyweight waiting. It’s not a problem but I have to avoid playing stuff I want to because even if i win a couple times, not a chance i win consistently

  • TheRyanFlaherty

    You think that’s bad? You can’t enter .25 leagues on DK without seeing the top players multi-entering.
    As I said in another thread I’m not going to scream about it…they have an advantage and are trying to maximize profit, but I do think it is short-sighted to fight for those small amounts if it runs players off…that money is going to make it’s way up eventually.

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @TheRyanFlaherty said...

    You think that’s bad? You can’t enter .25 leagues on DK without seeing the top players multi-entering.
    As I said in another thread I’m not going to scream about it…they have an advantage and are trying to maximize profit, but I do think it is short-sighted to fight for those small amounts if it runs off players…that money is going to make it’s way up eventually.

    Yea, it is truly absurd. It doesn’t help that people then come on here and act as though those of us who want chance are asking for everything to be given to us.

    I don’t expect DK or any other site to make things difficult for pros who have earned the advantage they are getting by taking a bigger risk. All I am asking for is a small compromise that allows for sharks and minnows alike to enjoy the game consistently. If other people can’t see how that is possible, I don’t know what to tell them because there are plenty of quality ideas out there to make this happen.

  • Deltfish

    @tgowen said...

    Yea, it is truly absurd. It doesn’t help that people then come on here and act as though those of us who want chance are asking for everything to be given to us.

    I don’t expect DK or any other site to make things difficult for pros who have earned the advantage they are getting by taking a bigger risk. All I am asking for is a small compromise that allows for sharks and minnows alike to enjoy the game consistently. If other people can’t see how that is possible, I don’t know what to tell them because there are plenty of quality ideas out there to make this happen.

    I think a solution if offering more ‘beginners’ contests. Or redefining what a beginner is. Anyone that has wagered less than $1,000 total in any sport or something. Then those sharks you mention wouldn’t be eligible to enter.

    That’s my 2 cents. Once you’ve entered in enough you know what getting into

  • cutter2225

    @manBEAST said...

    One solution is to play on the smaller sites where the pros don’t have the time to play. There are many good ones out there, DK and FD are tournaments only for me. Changes are coming with all the regulation in the meantime find a site you enjoy playing on and profit.

    Gotta disagree…I was over at FantasyFeud in a $1 entry fee $40 total pool contest and there were a couple of the pro’s in it. No way thats good for dfs in the long run

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Deltfish said...

    I think a solution if offering more ‘beginners’ contests. Or redefining what a beginner is. Anyone that has wagered less than $1,000 total in any sport or something. Then those sharks you mention wouldn’t be eligible to enter.

    That’s my 2 cents. Once you’ve entered in enough you know what getting into

    That’s more my line of thinking. I would like to see contests that only players who risk a certain amount of money or less each day could play in.

    ex. 500 man single entry tournament where only people who average less than $20 in entries per day can play in.

    I would even be ok with sites offering only a few of these per day, and then once they are filled, they are gone until the next day. Offer them on a limited basis and grow from there. Anything is better than the shark infested bloody waters that these sites are offering right now.

    Again though, right now sites don’t seem to care at all so we might as well be speaking to a rock.

  • teamcdot

    Just play head to head then. I beat ChiptoleAddict last time I played. Head to head, they aren’t that good as they are only using one lineup.

  • BmoreClutch

    I’m surprised no one has come in with the typical “build better LU’s” schtick

    These sites only care about money. Max and the pros are a constant flow of money. They’re not going to do anything to jeopardize that. The only thing we can hope for is regulation at some point.

    I love what Yahoo did with their fair play rules. Hopefully regulation will bring similar rules to every site. It’s just a shame that Yahoo basically doesn’t give a shit about their DFS product.

  • NCRick

    The real problem is all these states banning DFS. The pros will move to another state but the fish quit playing. You end up with a substantially higher ratio of sharks to fish. I was doing pretty well up until several states got banned, now I only cash in a very small % of GPPs. Its bad for everybody when a new state get banned.

  • tgowen

    • Blogger of the Month

    @teamcdot said...

    Just play head to head then. I beat ChiptoleAddict last time I played. Head to head, they aren’t that good as they are only using one lineup.

    I don’t mean to come off as rude, but I hear this all of the time. Yes, they are not unbeatable and I too have beaten some of them in H2H and 50/50 contests.

    However, when you look at the DK H2H contests and literally the only people you can choose from are those that have earned a note worthy “experience” badge it is ridiculous. The fact that I can’t even remotely find another low stakes player to go against in a H2H regardless of the slate or day of the week is insane.

  • feekdogg

    @tgowen said...

    I don’t mean to come off as rude, but I hear this all of the time. Yes, they are not unbeatable and I too have beaten some of them in H2H and 50/50 contests.

    However, when you look at the DK H2H contests and literally the only people you can choose from are those that have earned a note worthy “experience” badge it is ridiculous. The fact that I can’t even remotely find another low stakes player to go against in a H2H regardless of the slate or day of the week is insane.

    I posted earlier in this thread that I was playing hoop2410 in a $2 3-man league this afternoon. When I went to look for a $5 3-way tonight, he was in every league that I looked at that already had one or two entries, so I just joined a league where I was the first entry. Well, guess who swooped in and grabbed one of the open spaces? Yep, hoop2410. I just want to play a couple other random regular guys, but that’s become very difficult.

  • Mholm

    I might be wrong, but I think you can create a contest and exclude certain players.

  • Mholm

    Funny,no asked empiremaker2 this question on Twitter and he blocked me.

  • slcseas

    I’m not a fan of it, but with the current state of DFS (major decline) I don’t know that I can blame them for soaking up all the action they can. Legislation is finishing the job the sites started with rake increases and generally poor service. I can’t honestly say I’d be above it in the same position. Sucks, but it’s reality. I’m down to playing NFL only because it’s the only sport with enough of a player base to avoid this issue.

  • yeahthisiscuddy

    I’ve been banging the drum on this for about a year now. I usually get shouted down, so I’m glad to see that hasn’t happened here yet. The usual argument is that the mass multi-entry pros make the big $1 million tournaments possible, so we should all be grateful the sites let them scalp us in every $1 double-up.

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