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  • andrewjc14

    Can someone please explain how 7(maybe more, just the names I quickly recognized) “pros” have the exact same line up in the $5 single entry cash game with 114 contestants. I understand it is a three game slate, but play your own game. They may or may not cash, but that really isn’t the point. I have several issues with this and maybe I’m alone, but I thought I would see how other people feel.

  • jah2323

    @RangerC said...

    True, but many of these teams also have the same LU in 13 game NBA slates and major golf tournaments with 80+ playable golfers. Given that they overlap LUs in unlikely spots, it remains suspicious when they overlap LUs in spots where there is an excuse otherwise.

    BTW the problem is not necessarily that guys were sharing information / projections / LUs, but that it happened in a 114 entry, single entry, $5 cash game. There are a number of pro teams who share cash LUs to multi-enter small buy-in single entry contests (down to the $1 level). Whether or not this technically violates DK TOS, its terrible that the priority of DK is to let their pros get a couple extra dollars of ROI per slate rather than give low and midstakes players a home and reason to stick around.

    I can think of one such player who won $5 mill last year and does this constantly, super annoying, but will never change I’m sure, kinda funny when you think about his previous profession

  • seth1374

    Check this out in the 3 entry max on a 15 game slate there were 28 people with the same lineup. There is only ONE way that happens. If DK is going to have these community guidelines then enforce them but his is a joke:

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/33235282?uc=580290345

  • DirtyDanS4

    yeah sometimes it seems a little fishy… are you thinking they bought the lineup or all shared a lineup together or what? a few weeks back on fd i played a few sharks and non sharks mid range price cash games 10 game slate and it just so happened they all had the same lineup hmmm

  • scottmsteiner

    At least you beat that train.

  • deejones49

    Amazing that many players came up with VUCEVIC at 5% he was 2.7% on FD

  • tonytone1908

    After hours slate on FD had like 1051 people tied for 1st. Little over $100. Four or five people were in second, behind by .4 that played T Rob. Man, another half a point was the difference between $15 and $15k. Damn. Crazy.

    https://www.fanduel.com/games/17066/contests/17066-204273710/entries/1091308310/scoring

  • RangerC

    @seth1374 said...

    Check this out in the 3 entry max on a 15 game slate there were 28 people with the same lineup. There is only ONE way that happens. If DK is going to have these community guidelines then enforce them but his is a joke:

    https://www.draftkings.com/contest/gamecenter/33235282?uc=580290345

    I can believe that people came up with that LU independently – if you decide to go Westbrook/Davis you are probably also going to also play Chandler/Murray/Bayless (all 5 20-38% owned plays) and then you don’t have too many other variations with your last 3 spots (only ‘weird’ play is Vuc and he is a starting C at 5.7K not unreasonable to use him to fill what was probably the last open spot). Also seems possible that an optimizer would spit out that LU if you locked in Westbrook/Davis (which is not against the rules). Funnier thing is that 1 guy triple entered it and another guy double entered it – they were too lazy to swap Bayless/Murray for Nelson in one LU which would have taken down the whole thing.

    IMO it’s way worse that in the $5 Single entry double up Aejones/Kunu88 and Daut/MiR have the same cash LU once again. Hilariously, they are now switching player slots when possible to try to generate some fake plausible deniability or dodge any simple algo looking for overlapping LUs (AEJones has Murray/Clarkson/Ingram/Cousins/Zeller/Chandler/Westbrook/Young, Kunu88 Murray/Clarkson/Ingram/Young/Cousins/Chandler/Westbrook/Zeller) – Daut/MiR same sort of thing). Its one thing for a bunch of random players to land on the same guys in a big slate tourney, another entirely for the same pros to constantly circumvent the single entry limit in small cash games.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

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    @RangerC said...

    IMO it’s way worse that in the $5 Single entry double up Aejones/Kunu88 and Daut/MiR have the same cash LU once again. Hilariously, they are now switching player slots when possible to try to generate some fake plausible deniability or dodge any simple algo looking for overlapping LUs

    It’s my understanding that It’s not against the current guidelines to build a lineup together and play it in the same cash games.

    DraftKings reads all of these threads and monitors activity. These guys definitely aren’t trying to hide the way that they play. If you think it shouldn’t be allowed then by all means state your case. I definitely think the optics can be bad for a casual player, similar to how the optics are bad when one of the top players wins multiple top 10 prizes in the same tournament.

    What advantage would it create to play the same lineup in a cash game? Even if they are splitting profits they each end up with the same amount of money as if they would have only played one lineup. If they happen to hit the bubble payout they would each split one prize and win less together than if only one of them played.

  • billholler

    @Cal said...

    DraftKings reads all of these threads and monitors activity.

    And then does nothing about any of the issues we discuss.

  • Heterodox

    @Cal said...

    What advantage would it create to play the same lineup in a cash game? Even if they are splitting profits they each end up with the same amount of money as if they would have only played one lineup. If they happen to hit the bubble payout they would each split one prize and win less together than if only one of them played.

    So, is it a disadvantage? Why do they work together – as they have admitted to doing, within the rules – if it could put them at a disadvantage AND draw scrutiny for suspected cheating?

    We already know that those guys work together. They’ve admitted it. They say it’s within the rules, and DK has given us no reason to think otherwise. It seems like the question you ask is casting doubt on something already established. We know they work together. Ask them what the advantage is.

    Of course this talk of “splitting profits” is a bit misleading. If they were entering this contest and only this contest, and each splitting profits equally, maybe you’d have a point. The idea put forth is that their DFS play is a coordinated commercial enterprise. Who knows what their balance sheet would look like if this were the case. Who knows what the balance of shares/split of profits would be. But there’s no disputing that if you are a single entity, then more entries and more profits and a bigger overall pie to slice up in any way you want, can’t be a bad thing.

  • Jcb890

    @Heterodox said...

    So, is it a disadvantage? Why do they work together – as they have admitted to doing, within the rules – if it could put them at a disadvantage AND draw scrutiny for suspected cheating?

    I think you and we all know the answer to this question already. If it did not provide them with an advantage or they did not feel it was giving them an advantage, they would not be doing it. These guys aren’t idiots.

  • glennantz

    I am by no means a pro or any wear near it. I got in a late night NBA 2 game slate a few days ago, just for fun to see what would happen. The best one or two lineups were so obvious, there were over 1,000 people tied for first. It happens.

  • usagambler

    Yes it is a major problem. I was looking at one of my $5 single entry double ups tonight and noticed one of the guys who you see every night in most of the contests. What do you know, 10 people have the exact lineup. I decided to look at another and 8 had that exact lineup. I then checked my $2 ones and nearly every one had 12 entries with that same lineup. I didn’t check how many different names but there were several different names, not just 8-12. I barely missed the cash line tonight so basically I got cheated out of my money. I am withdrawing my money tonight and will not play anymore DFS until they fix some of the problems. I will bring it to there attention just to let them know one reason why they lose players. BTW I usually play around $50 a night in basketball and $150 on a Sunday in football. Not a big player but players like me are what is needed for this industry to survive.

  • Jcb890

    @usagambler said...

    Yes it is a major problem. I was looking at one of my $5 single entry double ups tonight and noticed one of the guys who you see every night in most of the contests. What do you know, 10 people have the exact lineup. I decided to look at another and 8 had that exact lineup. I then checked my $2 ones and nearly every one had 12 entries with that same lineup. I didn’t check how many different names but there were several different names, not just 8-12. I barely missed the cash line tonight so basically I got cheated out of my money. I am withdrawing my money tonight and will not play anymore DFS until they fix some of the problems. I will bring it to there attention just to let them know one reason why they lose players. BTW I usually play around $50 a night in basketball and $150 on a Sunday in football. Not a big player but players like me are what is needed for this industry to survive.

    Please provide more details about your situation.

    Small slate? How many games? Multiple users all had the same exact lineup in a large-slate Double-Up? On a small slate this is obviously much more common.

  • usagambler

    I may have overreacted a bit last night as I was on tilt. I stand by most of what I said. I believe it is wrong for small single entry double ups to have multiples of the same lineup. Maybe for a 2 or 3 game slate I can see some identical lineups but not on larger ones. Last night was a 6 game NBA slate and there is no way 12 people came up with the exact same lineup using Jamal Crawford and Jameer Nelson. I guess it would be possible for 2 people to have the same lineup but even then the odds have to be really high. I don’t buy that was a coincidence as it is always a guy who is a major player who apparently has a team who enter the identical lineups.

    12 lineups identical when only 100 cash lowers the chances to cash dramatically for the guys like me who only enter one lineup. Doesn’t it seem reasonable to only have one of a lineup per contest when they are single entry? If someone already has entered that lineup in a particular lineup than enter another one or change a player. I am talking for smallish double-ups not gpps.

  • ntanygd760

    Or raises the chances to cash when the identical lineups do poorly.

  • Cal

    RG CoFounder & Admin

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      RG Overall Ranking

    • $1M Prize Winner

    • x4

      2015 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    @Heterodox said...

    So, is it a disadvantage? Why do they work together – as they have admitted to doing, within the rules – if it could put them at a disadvantage AND draw scrutiny for suspected cheating?

    I’m not sure if you aren’t following me or you’re intentionally misconstruing my point, but I will clarify:

    1. There is no advantage, fair or unfair, to submitting the same lineup in a cash game – that’s the point I made very clearly.

    2. There is an advantage to be had in working with smart players to identify the best plays and create cash lineups. That is an advantage allowed by DK’s rules. PG/CA clearly work together.

    3. There is an advantage to be had by interlaying teams with a partner to get around an entry limit lineup and then splitting profits. That is an advantage not allowed by DraftKings rules.

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