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  • rotokevin

    2014 RG Bowling Co-Champion, CPA & DFS Tax Guru

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    Identical Team H2H Games

    Although rare, every now and then identical teams will square off in H2H contests. The obvious result is a tie with each team splitting the entry fees after the site takes its rake.

    My question is, should sites collect their rake in this situation? Do any sites have formal policies on this?

  • Cameron

    RG Co-Founder

    • 2014 FanDuel NFL Survivor Champion

    • 2016 RG Season Long Champion: NFL

    Good question. I think it makes sense to refund users in this situation for user-experience value to new users. If my first daily fantasy experience was a tie + a fee to the site, I’d be a bit put off by the “fun” of Daily Fantasy.

    A refund + re-match option the next day vs. same opponent would be cool too.

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

    • 293

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #43

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    Yeah…that should be the policy, but had a situation the other night in a Q on DK, where me and someone had identical teams. So who would have gotten the seat had we both won? Waiverwire passed us so it didn’t matter in the end, but curious on that as well.

  • adona72001

    @db730 said…

    Yeah…that should be the policy, but had a situation the other night in a Q on DK, where me and someone had identical teams. So who would have gotten the seat had we both won? Waiverwire passed us so it didn’t matter in the end, but curious on that as well.

    DB – I tied for 1st on DK for a main event ticket and they just give the 2 at the top the cash equivalent. We each got $100 (no ticket).

  • draftkingsmatt

    DraftKings Rep

    At DK we are happy to refund rake in heads-up games in the rare occasion this happens. As I recall this happened one time in a 2- or 3- game day NBA contest. We did a refund of the rake. It’s only really relevant to the 1-on-1 games where you don’t even get a sweat.

    It happens so rarely we aren’t too likely to set up automated systems to handle this anytime in the near future – you can just email support to get it dealt with.

    Best
    Matt

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

    • 293

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #43

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    Thanks Matt. Good to know.

  • First

    I just always think the better heads up players are going to have alot of overlap in there games…usually it comes down to just one to three players.

  • Markness

    DraftKings Team

    If anyone brings it to our attention we refund the rake if teams are identical in a H2H. Like Matt said, it hasn’t been worth setting up an automated process for this. I think it’s happened a few times in PGA leagues. Otherwise it’s pretty rare.

  • jerlevine

    DRAFT CEO

    Doesn’t happen much, but rake is refunded automatically when it does on StarStreet.

  • db730

    RotoGrinders Media Director

    • 293

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #43

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2016 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2016 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    This is why RG forums rock. Probably would have never thought to ask, but great to know sites are willing to do this. I had an experience during last NBA playoffs with a duplicate H2H and just chalked it up to bad luck.

  • csuram88

    • 61

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #48

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x7

      2014 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2014 DraftKings FBWC Champion

    I know this has happened to me a ton on Fanduel. I have never gotten my rake back (has happened a decent amount in $535 games). Will Fanduel start giving refunds on this?

  • Makisupa

    • x3

      2015 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • 2014 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    • 2013 StarStreet NFL Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2014 StarStreet MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Same for DD. If you bring it to our attention, we will gladly refund the rake.

  • waiverwire

    Starting immediately, we’ll do the same on FanDuel. Just submit a ticket and we’ll take care of it.

  • Justin

    Fantasy Feud Rep

    Feud has no automated process for this either but we will always work with our users to make things right. Just need to email Customer Support. To date I believe this has only happened once.

  • rotokevin

    2014 RG Bowling Co-Champion, CPA & DFS Tax Guru

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @waiverwire said…

    Starting immediately, we’ll do the same on FanDuel. Just submit a ticket and we’ll take care of it.

    It’s nice to know that FanDuel, the industry leader, has to be guilted into doing the right thing in this situation. Here’s the response I got via support yesterday.

    “Thank you for submitting a support ticket. Unfortunately, I am unable to refund the “rake” from this contest. We are always generous in offering refunds/credits when we cause a technical issue keeping users from making edits before games begin. In a case like this, we’ve provided users with a smooth running game with no technical issues at game start. As it turns out, this was a rare scenario in which both teams in a head to head contest had the same lineup, but as mentioned previously this is out of our control.”

    I do applaud FanDuel for seeing the error in their ways and making the change going forward.

  • waiverwire

    @rotokevin said…

    It’s nice to know that FanDuel, the industry leader, has to be guilted into doing the right thing in this situation. Here’s the response I got via support yesterday.

    “Thank you for submitting a support ticket. Unfortunately, I am unable to refund the “rake” from this contest. We are always generous in offering refunds/credits when we cause a technical issue keeping users from making edits before games begin. In a case like this, we’ve provided users with a smooth running game with no technical issues at game start. As it turns out, this was a rare scenario in which both teams in a head to head contest had the same lineup, but as mentioned previously this is out of our control.”

    Rotokevin – Apologies for that. Keep in mind that the support guys responding to tickets aren’t the ones making the policies, and that they’re going through hundreds of tickets each day. They need to use their judgment about which issues should be brought up for discussion with other team members, since there are far too many tickets to discuss each one. This particular topic was something that we had given some thought to creating an automated solution to around a year ago, and then it had simply fallen off the radar.

    Our intention was for the new policy to start with today’s contests, but given the unfortunate timing, send me the details and I’ll get the contests from your support ticket taken care of.

  • csuram88

    • 61

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #48

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • x7

      2014 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2014 DraftKings FBWC Champion

    @waiverwire said…

    Starting immediately, we’ll do the same on FanDuel. Just submit a ticket and we’ll take care of it.

    Great! So awesome to see that the sites are on the same page on this issue. One of the most frustrating things as a player is getting matched up against the same team. I think in the long run these refunds will be good for the industry (Love Cameron’s idea of a rematch button as well).

  • rotokevin

    2014 RG Bowling Co-Champion, CPA & DFS Tax Guru

    • 2014 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @waiverwire said…

    Rotokevin – Apologies for that. Keep in mind that the support guys responding to tickets aren’t the ones making the policies, and that they’re going through hundreds of tickets each day. They need to use their judgment about which issues should be brought up for discussion with other team members, since there are far too many tickets to discuss each one. This particular topic was something that we had given some thought to creating an automated solution to around a year ago, and then it had simply fallen off the radar.

    Our intention was for the new policy to start with today’s contests, but given the unfortunate timing, send me the details and I’ll get the contests from your support ticket taken care of.

    I may have been a bit harsh, so apologies there, but I got what I came for. Positive change was enacted through largely positive public discussion. I appreciate the offer, but it is unnecessary. Knowing that proper policy has been put in place for future instances (and that the industry as a whole is united on this point) is more that enough value for my foregone rake.

  • zViPeRz

    Hey Adona I tied with you in that Q and was bummed to not get a main event ticket…

  • naapstermaan

    Panda Grinder

    • 2014 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2012 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    another cool option would be the ability to swap one player (for equal or lesser salary obv) after seeing your opponents lineup (could be an option if identical lineups or just in general). it would sorta be a game of chicken to see who thinks the other will change and vice versa. daily fantasy prisoner’s dilemma!!!!

  • pokerrob1970

    DraftDay BLB Finalist

    Is this refund the rake policy only for h2h games where both sides have identical line ups or does it also apply to h2h games that happen to end in a tie?

  • waiverwire

    @pokerrob1970 said…

    Is this refund the rake policy only for h2h games where both sides have identical line ups or does it also apply to h2h games that happen to end in a tie?

    For FanDuel, it’s only for identical lineups in h2h games.

  • pokerrob1970

    DraftDay BLB Finalist

    @waiverwire said…

    For FanDuel, it’s only for identical lineups in h2h games.

    Really? Why is that?

  • waiverwire

    @pokerrob1970 said…

    Really? Why is that?

    Two main reasons:
    1. With identical lineups, you miss out on the fun of sweating the game, so you’re essentially getting nothing for your money. In a tie, you get the full experience of following the contest.

    2. Identical lineups could be viewed as the result of a failure on our part – bad pricing, not enough roster choices, running a contest with too many participants, etc. Any other tie is just bad ‘luck’ and not necessarily indicative of anything that the site should be doing differently.

  • pokerrob1970

    DraftDay BLB Finalist

    @waiverwire said…

    Two main reasons:
    1. With identical lineups, you miss out on the fun of sweating the game, so you’re essentially getting nothing for your money. In a tie, you get the full experience of following the contest.

    2. Identical lineups could be viewed as the result of a failure on our part – bad pricing, not enough roster choices, running a contest with too many participants, etc. Any other tie is just bad ‘luck’ and not necessarily indicative of anything that the site should be doing differently.

    I don’t think people are playing for the fun or experience. And if they are i can assure you they don’t leave with a smile on their face knowing the only person to win was the site. And while i know they still rake split pots in poker there is a huge difference in the site taking 1% of the total pot(MAX $5) vs 10% from each player.

    If i bet with my bookie and push i still got the fun and experience but i don’t have to pay out anything.

    Are all sites like this???

  • jerlevine

    DRAFT CEO

    @pokerrob1970 said…

    Is this refund the rake policy only for h2h games where both sides have identical line ups or does it also apply to h2h games that happen to end in a tie?

    We refund rake automatically for all ties in h2h games on StarStreet.

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