INDUSTRY FORUM

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  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    Thank you for the feedback. Our goal is to have contests everyone enjoys. We have listened to your input in our DraftKings Community what would you like to know? thread. Based on the thoughts from the RG community, we are expanding our 2x cash options to include the following:

    NBA: Featured 20-Max $4 game
    MLB: Any Single Entry/3-max game $20 and under
    MLB: Any 20-Max game $2 and under [starting Saturday]

    We will continue to review the preferences of all our players as it pertains to top prize and payout structure through a mix of qualitative and historical data.

    We’d love to continue to hear your thoughts in this thread, or you can contact us directly. Our goal is to continuously iterate and evolve to maintain a vibrant contest mix for all, and sincerely appreciate all of your engagement.

    Your player advocates,
    Steven & Christie, DraftKings Community Team

  • KindGuy

    @hendog said...

    I will play devil’s advocate and say that there is a more charitable interpretation of tmarohl’s comment: they are saying that “flatter payouts is SO important that I would give almost anything for it, EVEN slightly higher rake.” Frankly, I can understand that opinion; even if overall I would prefer lower rake, there is a tradeoff. For example I wouldn’t play in a 100K-entry winner-take-all tournament even if the rake was half of normal rake. The variance would be way too high. So yes, the payout structure can be so bad that I would rather pay increased rake. Realistically, I’m not going to put in entries either way, but I understand the sentiment. And in fact, if you were to ask me what I find more damaging to my personal long-term DFS bottom line, I would say that the changes in payout structure have been more damaging than the increases in rake. That sentiment implies that I would trade rake for better payout structures. I wish it wouldn’t come to that, but there’s some truth there.

    I disagree with you but let’s just go with your line of thinking for a moment:

    How high would the rake have to go for you to say the trade off isn’t worth it? In other words, at what rake % would you rather play a top heavy payout structure?

  • hendog

    • 481

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #66

      RG Tiered Ranking

    • 2017 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    I don’t know exactly what the tradeoff is; I mainly wanted to point out that there is one. To get specific though, I wouldn’t play a winner-take-all tournament even if it was rake-free. It’s hard to answer your question directly because better payout structures is a continuum just as much as rake is, and I’m not sure how to quantify the “top-heaviness” of a tournament. If I had to put a number on it, my intuition says that the perfect payout structures would be “worth” maybe a 5% decrease in rake… not very confident in that though. There’s plenty of room for DFS players to disagree on our preferences in this regard, but it’s clear that there is a tradeoff at least in theory: given two ways tournaments can be improved or worsened (changing the rake, changing the payout the structure), there is by necessity the possibility of balancing these considerations against each other.

  • btwice80

    • 638

      RG Overall Ranking

    hendog is exactly right. Super top-heavy tournaments essentially increase the “rake,” dramatically, for everyone else. Of course I don’t want the rake to go up, but as I said in the other thread, the current prize structure, most days, is worse than the current rake.

  • mike291md

    The introduction of a single tourney was nice and all, but this train needs to ultimately head to a complete overhaul of the contests to include this payout structure. I hope we’re headed in that direction and that this thing isn’t just some sort of promotional stunt just to get people’s interests back into DFS. Reading through this thread, the people have clearly spoken.

    And we have heard no such indication that rake is going to be lowered. Lower rake and flatter payout structures were strongly the top two points people demanded in the thread. One without the other, how would that pan out? I hope this is the real deal and the sites are taking this thread seriously enough. Can we get a timeline on when this payout structure will be a site-wide change? Is the rake being lowered a feasible thing or are we wasting our time even suggesting this?

    The time to take baby steps was years ago. The sites knew what they were doing (or weren’t doing) this entire time. Let’s not act like this demand for better payouts and lower rake is some sort of new revelation. There are have been countless threads asking for this on this very forum for years. You could go into the archives right now and likely find thousands of threads pertaining to this.

    Another poster had a good point. Instead of just using this forum, send surveys out to all of your customers asking what would A) Bring them back if they’ve stopped playing and B) What changes would they like to see instituted in general. My guess is most people will ask for three things – lower rake, better payout structures, and clean-up the lineup sharing/selling. You know how I know this? Because I’ve been on this forum for years and the same threads keep getting made about those 3 issues.

    It’s not rocket science. Lower the rake. Flatten the payouts. Police the non-sense in the multi-entry tournaments. If you’re not willing to do all 3 then you’re just getting peoples’ hopes up only to further let them down. The first two should be done swiftly and the third one (policing) should have been an ongoing effort from day 1. However, it shouldn’t be too late to start but I guarantee that you have lost many a casual player to seeing the prize pool lost to shared lineups and ridiculous looking lineup trains.

    I know some don’t agree with me on the lineup train ideal but the payout system looks like a circus when you have one lineup taking up 20 consecutive spots in a tournament. It looks terrible to the average customer who wants to place and get paid well for placing.

  • Taterchipdip

    I always knew why they had King in their name!! Its good to be King!!

  • jmo26

    This is a very positive step — well done, DK.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    @Kjwhalen77 said...

    Hopefully the flatter payout structure/2X min will apply to PGA as well.

    We are constantly listening to the feedback from the community. In the post above @Kjwhalen77 requested a 2x-min cash contest for PGA – and we agree!

    Our first PGA 2x Min-Cash contest is now live for the featured 20-Max $1 game! (link)

    - Steven & Christie, DraftKings Community Team

  • Dunzor

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    We are constantly listening to the feedback from the community. In the post above @Kjwhalen77 requested a 2x-min cash contest for PGA – and we agree!

    Our first PGA 2x Min-Cash contest is now live for the featured 20-Max $1 game! (link)

    - Steven & Christie, DraftKings Community Team

    Excellent, I was just going to say that we need this for PGA too, though I would love to see it at some higher price points, or at least the single entry / 3 max similar to MLB.

  • Vanco

    I appreciate the 2X min payout, but another thing many were calling for was flatter payout table with 10% to first and 10% of that to 10th as a guideline. The $2 entry $40k Tablesetter 2x min cash for example has a terrible payout with $5k to 1st and just $150 to 10th. Please consider adjusting this to $4k to 1st and $400 to 10th. Many of the single entry gpp’s have a very good stucture that can be applied to other gpp’s. Another issue, to me at least, is the very low payouts to the $1 games. Solo shot and 3 entry $1 Strike Three are only paying out 5% to first.

    Also consider having the $1 solo shot and $3 moonshot be the ‘big’ tourny’s of the day occasionally. The price on some of the games has me not even looking at them. I enter about $20 a day so an entry or two into the big $8 gpp leaves me feeling like I have no chance so I play single entry and some $1-2 entries.

    Thanks for being on the forum and listening to our suggestions. Definitely appreciated.

  • KindGuy

    @Vanco said...

    Also consider having the $1 solo shot and $3 moonshot be the ‘big’ tourny’s of the day occasionally.

    No chance that ever happens for the $1. $3 is a stretch but atleast in the realm of possibility. The $1 stopped being the main low dollar GPP back in like 2013 lol.

  • Vanco

    @elementasrat said...

    No chance that ever happens for the $1.

    Well by ‘big’ for the solo shot I meant more of the $15-$20k they’ve been running as recently as last month. You’re right though, I could have sworn there were $40k solo shots last year but after looking back at 2017 I was way off. $20k seemed pretty normal though. Recently it’s been $5k that fills early that they add a couple more $2k and $1k solo shots that all fill. Maybe just make one $10k that will fill with $1k to first.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    @Vanco said...

    Thanks for being on the forum and listening to our suggestions. Definitely appreciated.

    Thank you for being so welcoming!

    This is a good opportunity remind everyone that if you would like to have your voice heard, have a suggestion, or would like to see a change – just let us know what you’re thinking. If a customer gives us honest feedback with a good explanation that backs up his or her argument, it makes it easier for the DK Community Team to relay your ideas to the proper internal decision makers.

    Keep in mind that listening doesn’t necessarily mean the change you have requested will occur, but it does mean your opinion matters to us and your voice will always be heard. We are reading every post in this thread, taking notes – you are not being ignored. We don’t have the resources to respond to every post, but we will occasionally step in to share our thoughts when we have something that can be added to the discussion.

    - DK Community Team

  • lpdev

    The $20 3 entry max contest you added has quickly become one of my favorites. I’m interested in seeing more low entry (but not single entry) contests of varying price ranges. They could be modeled after the $20/3 Max Contest. I like the sizing and payout structure there. Maybe mix it up with some 5 entry max/10 entry max contests.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @lpdev said...

    The $20 3 entry max contest you added has quickly become one of my favorites. I’m interested in seeing more low entry (but not single entry) contests of varying price ranges. They could be modeled after the $20/3 Max Contest. I like the sizing and payout structure there. Maybe mix it up with some 5 entry max/10 entry max contests.

    Agreed. First contest I enter now every night. Seems like it has been filling up every night but has been stuck in the $30-35k guaranteed range. I hope they try to make it bigger as I think it could fill at a much bigger guarantee if they allow it to grow. Like you said, even if that means making it 5-10 max, that would be fine.

    $20 buy-in, $100k contest with 5 entry max, $10k to first down to $1k to 10th, 2x min cash every night would be great.

  • joe2dwight

    • 339

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #5

      RG Tiered Ranking

    So where is the Any 20-Max game $2 and under today? Am I missing something?

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    @joe2dwight said...

    So where is the Any 20-Max game $2 and under today? Am I missing something?

    Thank you for pointing this out. We have offered $2 contests this past week with 2x min-cash as planned. Today we switched the $2 contest to $3, but we accidentally overlooked adding in the 2x min-cash payout structure. Our bad!

    DK’s operations team has asked us to share that the correct 2x min-cash payout structure will be used tomorrow once again.

    - DraftKings Community Team

  • tonedefrob

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    MLB: Any Single Entry/3-max game $20 and under

    FYI, the $5 MLB $5K Five-Tool Player [3 Entry Max] tonight does not have a 2x min cash payout ($8 min cash).

  • joe2dwight

    • 339

      RG Overall Ranking

    • Ranked #5

      RG Tiered Ranking

    @DraftKings_CM said...

    Thank you for pointing this out. We have offered $2 contests this past week with 2x min-cash as planned. Today we switched the $2 contest to $3, but we accidentally overlooked adding in the 2x min-cash payout structure. Our bad!

    DK’s operations team has asked us to share that the correct 2x min-cash payout structure will be used tomorrow once again.

    - DraftKings Community Team

    Awesome. Thank you for your response.

  • DraftKings_CM

    • DraftKings Representative

    @tonedefrob said...

    FYI, the $5 MLB $5K Five-Tool Player [3 Entry Max] tonight does not have a 2x min cash payout ($8 min cash).

    See above….

  • Gathman78

    Well, that $2 Tablesetter really lasted long. When inquiring about it on Twitter, I was told to play the $3 20 Max instead. I see you listened to what your customers wanted for…oh about a week. Your MLB product is continuing to get worse and worse. Time to start looking to play elsewhere.

  • jokerdpo

    I don’t know what happened as well. I really enjoyed the $2 Tablesetter ($5K to 1st). Would much rather be entering those with the ability of maxing out at $40 then entering a $4 contest (with $7.5 to 1st) but maxing out now costs $80. I agree, it maybe a summer of just golf from Thursday to Sunday until football returns.

  • joec0726

    I brought up the $2 Tablesetter in the “DraftKings Community” thread as well. That was Monday, and the last day it ran. Seems there are more than a few people who like this contest. So, again I will ask, what exactly is wrong with the contest that it cannot run on each main slate? I think right now, I will refrain from playing any multi-entry contest until it comes back. Probably a “meh, BFD” thing to DK, but if enough people don’t buy into the BS multi-entry contests they’re throwing out there right now, then maybe they’ll be forced to correct it.

  • wolfjb1

    Yeah, where did it go?

    Add my vote to those clamoring to bring it back.

    Bring it back, DK!

  • flip4flop

    Plus however many we are up to for the Tablesetter. I loved it and played it everyday. Please bring it back and keep it.

  • sutogame

    • 675

      RG Overall Ranking

    They brought it back but they reduced top prize to 1K and there is a flare $2 entry.

    The $1 gpp pays out 1.5k.

    Once again very bad job on the gpp sizing DK.
    Sabotaging MLB

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