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  • xtarheelsx

    I hate bending over for the rich people….and I hate spelling incorrectly because of too many beers

  • ezellmt

    RG Contributor

    • 732

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    • 2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

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    Who are you referring to as “the rich people”? If you’re talking about the sites, they are anything but rich. They have been in the red since day one. I’m not saying you need to feel sorry for them, but they are a business trying to make money. Stinks for us players, but it’s understandable.

  • tvsfrink

    “Rediculous”

    “In the red”

    Ah, I see.

  • Chuky

    @ezellmt said...

    Who are you referring to as “the rich people”? If you’re talking about the sites, they are anything but rich. They have been in the red since day one. I’m not saying you need to feel sorry for them, but they are a business trying to make money. Stinks for us players, but it’s understandable.

    In the red since day one? How much in advertising did they spend again last year? They chose to be in the red and that is a fact.

  • noddy

    Its you. Everyone else here thinks its fine. It has never been brought up here before.

  • Olhausen

    Is it just me or do we have one of these threads once a week? Don’t like the rake then don’t play because complaining about it isn’t going to do a damn thing. Also maybe you haven’t Heard but the sites have been battling to stay legal for the last year which costs just a little bit of money.

  • blabbles

    Has the rake gone up? I’m new so I have no clue.

    The only thing I could say is that, if you had asked me a couple weeks ago, before I dove in, what I thought a DFS rake would be, I would probably have said “…about 10% or so?” And hey, that’s what it is…

    I am curious if it used to be lower tho.

  • Aalbanese102089

    Wait.. you guys are saying the sites take rake? I thought they were just hosting a DFS site as a hobby and not to be profitable. Mindblowing..

  • Bigo1

    It is refreshing to see that we are moving forward with positive comments and great suggestions on the issue of the rake rising (too rapidly?). I know it has been discussed at lengths in previous threads, but some people are not here 24/7 and might have missed the discussions.

    Better stay silent than saying ‘You don’t like it, don’t play’, ‘sites must make money you idiot’…
    Oh and where is the troll saying ‘build better LUs’???? Only he is missing on this thread

  • EandE

    I think there needs to be more transparency about the rake, especially if it’s not the same for all GPPs. Maybe the sites themselves don’t need to post, but it could be a great resource added to the research tools. Game selection is important.

    https://rotogrinders.com/threads/summary-of-gpp-offerings-game-selection-tool-1383244

  • nvalencia30

    • x2

      2014 FAFC Finalist

    • 2015 FAWBC Finalist

    There’s a browser extension that calculates rake and overlay for every contest that shows a specific prize pool in the lobby.

    Here you go – DK: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rotogrinders-draftkings-t/lokmacldfjfgajcebibmmfohacnikhhd

    FD: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rotogrinders-fanduel-tool/felhhccenjfgepphdanniaeclbjhklca

  • EadesScience

    @nvalencia30 said...

    There’s a browser extension that calculates rake and overlay for every contest that shows a specific prize pool in the lobby.

    Here you go – DK: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rotogrinders-draftkings-t/lokmacldfjfgajcebibmmfohacnikhhd

    FD: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rotogrinders-fanduel-tool/felhhccenjfgepphdanniaeclbjhklca

    This tool is Too Cool! Thank You for the heads up.

  • ezellmt

    RG Contributor

    • 732

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @tvsfrink said...

    “Rediculous”

    “In the red”

    Ah, I see.

    Yes, the OP misspelled the word ridiculous. Are you unsure what the phase “in the red” means or are you disputing that the sites have indeed been losing money? I’ll be happy to explain or support either way, just let me know.

  • ezellmt

    RG Contributor

    • 732

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Also, I have mixed feelings about whether the site should be responsible for posting the rake. Part of me thinks that it would be helpful to the consumer and they should do it. At the same time, you don’t see retailers posting things like the COGS or gross margins for items on sale. You can argue it’s different, but it’s really not.

    In the end, the consumer is responsible for determining whether a product or service is worth their time and money. If the rake continues to grow, some will determine it’s no longer worth the investment. Most do it for fun and will continue to play regardless of the rake (within reason of course).

  • ezellmt

    RG Contributor

    • 732

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @Chuky said...

    In the red since day one? How much in advertising did they spend again last year? They chose to be in the red and that is a fact.

    I’m not arguing that their marketing strategies were valid or the right approach, but they obviously felt it was the right way to go. They did spend a boatoad on advertising in an attempt to acquire new players. They have to attempt to make money somehow. If you are selling a product with a 15% gross markup and still losing money, you have a few choices. You can do the following:
    1) Lower your static/fixed expenses (these would include things like salaries of high-up employees, rent, marketing, etc.)
    2) Lower your variable expenses (these are expenses that vary based on output. This probaby isn’t very relevant in DK’s case)
    3) Raise your margins per unit (rake in this case)
    4) Raise your production output (sell more contests obviously)

    It appears that DK is attempting to do 1, 3, and 4 at this point. Their overall marketing spend will be way less this year. The rake seems to be increasing slightly (although someone is welcome to back this up with evidence). And the site is obviously trying to grow and have more customers in contests by the day.

  • Bigo1

    @nvalencia30 said...

    There’s a browser extension that calculates rake and overlay for every contest that shows a specific prize pool in the lobby.

    Here you go – DK: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rotogrinders-draftkings-t/lokmacldfjfgajcebibmmfohacnikhhd

    FD: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rotogrinders-fanduel-tool/felhhccenjfgepphdanniaeclbjhklca

    Doesn’t look like it works for the co.uk version. Would it be easy for you to extend to the UK version? This is a must have extension imo. Ty

  • Olhausen

    @ezellmt said...

    They did spend a boatoad on advertising in an attempt to acquire new players.

    I believe the correct terminology is shipload of money. 🤑

  • ezellmt

    RG Contributor

    • 732

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    Haha I never saw it, but supposedly they aired a new commercial with “boatload” instead of “shipload” because people thought they said “shitload”. :)

  • EandE

    @ezellmt said...

    Also, I have mixed feelings about whether the site should be responsible for posting the rake.

    I am also not sure if the sites should be required to post rake. I do think it would be a helpful tool for RotoGrinders to put on their research tools. More than just rake. Things like min payout, % paid to 1st place, and other pieces of data to help us choose good GPPs to play. The browser extension is definitely helpful, but doesn’t have everything, in my opinion.

    That being said, all poker tournaments seem to advertise the house rake. For example, a $600 tournament is shown as $550 +$50. And there is always the fine print about 3% of prize pool being withheld for tournament staff.

  • tvsfrink

    @ezellmt said...

    Yes, the OP misspelled the word ridiculous. Are you unsure what the phase “in the red” means or are you disputing that the sites have indeed been losing money? I’ll be happy to explain or support either way, just let me know.

    I know what the phrase means and I’m not disputing anything. I just enjoy misspelled words that share a link to a subsequent post, no matter how tenuous that link may be.

  • RangerC

    @ezellmt said...

    4) Raise your production output (sell more contests obviously)

    It appears that DK is attempting to do 1, 3, and 4 at this point.

    Problem is that they are doing an awful job of #4 – look at the Olympics / JDC Golf fiasco (blowing at least 100K in rake/overlay loss because they don’t know what they are doing), tiny Euro tour slates (even though they always fill), shrinking NASCAR (even though it always fills), shrinking PGA slates (even though they always fill), not running PGA alternate events (throwing away 50K in rake because they’re lazy), etc (I could go on).

    BTW rake is 15% on $3 tourneys and only 6% at the $530 and up level (might be what the whole ‘bending over for rich people’ comment is from). Really sucks for those of us who like to do $300-600 in entries at the $3-33 level. DK HATES the midtier player as all their programs/spending is either based around high tier players or attracting fish/casuals.

  • ezellmt

    RG Contributor

    • 732

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FFWC Finalist

    • 2018 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    @RangerC said...

    Problem is that they are doing an awful job of #4 – look at the Olympics / JDC Golf fiasco (blowing at least 100K in rake/overlay loss because they don’t know what they are doing), tiny Euro tour slates (even though they always fill), shrinking NASCAR (even though it always fills), shrinking PGA slates (even though they always fill), not running PGA alternate events (throwing away 50K in rake because they’re lazy), etc (I could go on).

    BTW rake is 15% on $3 tourneys and only 6% at the $530 and up level (might be what the whole ‘bending over for rich people’ comment is from). Really sucks for those of us who like to do $300-600 in entries at the $3-33 level. DK HATES the midtier player as all their programs/spending is either based around high tier players or attracting fish/casuals.

    Yea I was really disappointed in the golf offerings for this week. Looks like it might burn them because JDC events are already filling up and Olympics should have overlay. DK seems to be better than FD at sizing competitions overall, but neither are great at it.

  • Galante118

    • Blogger of the Month

    Speak with your money. Plenty of sites offer games with substantially lower rake. The problem is, nobody is willing to do that.

    As far as the sites being “In the red,” that is 100% their decision. They choose to spend money in an absurd fashion. They easily could have profited the last couple of years if they cut advertising alone. Legal fees, lossing income from players in banned states etc…were all a product of them over advertising, not self regulating, and so on. Perhaps that day would have come anyway, but probably not in the manner it did with lawsuits of false advertising from an AG. No one should be throwing a pity party for them and justifying the rake on any cash game being over 10% and gpps over 12%.

  • Galante118

    • Blogger of the Month

    @ezellmt said...

    Who are you referring to as “the rich people”? If you’re talking about the sites, they are anything but rich. They have been in the red since day one. I’m not saying you need to feel sorry for them, but they are a business trying to make money. Stinks for us players, but it’s understandable.

    No its not understandable. Draft kings had a revenue of 30 million in 2014, so how much do they spend in advertising the next year? 131 million. Do I really have to say more then that? Not only does it defy logic, but you over saturated the market and turned off thousands of potentially customers. Their stupid commercials and the frequency of them made people not only not want to play DFS, but for the sites to flat out fail. Don’t raise the rake on your consumers because you made a mistake. Simply cut advertising costs by a substantial amount and stop with the idiotic commercials.

  • Maxkim

    Wow, so many people on here are better business men than the guys at fanduel and draftkings. I never knew tis board had so many successful people!

    Seriously guys, while its fun to look at some stuff they did and show the flaws in their business strategy, thats the same thing as saying a guy stinks because he had one bad game, or even a couple bad games. Like seriously, do you guys really think they don’t notice that PGA contests always fill? Or that they don’t do countless studies on how to maximize profits from the rake? And yet, they still made the decisions that they did. That’s not to say they’re never wrong, but all the criticism from us who are out of the loop, biased, AND much less successful than these guys should cut the brakes on some of the criticism IMO.

  • Galante118

    • Blogger of the Month

    @Maxkim said...

    Wow, so many people on here are better business men than the guys at fanduel and draftkings. I never knew tis board had so many successful people!

    Seriously guys, while its fun to look at some stuff they did and show the flaws in their business strategy, thats the same thing as saying a guy stinks because he had one bad game, or even a couple bad games. Like seriously, do you guys really think they don’t notice that PGA contests always fill? Or that they don’t do countless studies on how to maximize profits from the rake? And yet, they still made the decisions that they did. That’s not to say they’re never wrong, but all the criticism from us who are out of the loop, biased, AND much less successful than these guys should cut the brakes on some of the criticism IMO.

    Wow, sarcasm on the RG forums, I am shocked! (See what I did there)

    How are you measuring success? Because, a company that should be a cash cow they manage to run into the red every single year. DFS is such an easy product to push. The company’s have grown past the level of capability for the guys at the top of the food chain. Their carelessNess and poor marketing strategy almost ran the entire industry into the ground. You do get that right? Over saturating of the market with their ad blitz and not taking proper regulation precautions almost shut down DFS. That’s successful? They’re lucky DFS is a product that is so lucrative, that the government wanted to legalize and take their piece, instead of shut it down. Otherwise they’d be in the same boat as poker.

    You think their studies are on the mark with contest sizing? It’s not. At all. It’s actually embarrassing how off they are and how often. It’s nothing like comparing one game for a player to his total body of work. That analogy makes no sense. We are talking about countless mistakes over the course of months(years?) Will they be successful? Sure. But not because of the brilliant things they are doing, because of the monster product that is DFS

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