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  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    Is The DFS sky falling?

    Although I didn’t play volume on DS, the removal of them from the marketplace will likely hurt me and other dfs players. The rake at DK is considerably higher.(didnt stop me before) Besides that, having fewer people competing for our dollar will likely shrink things like deposit bonuses and overlay.

    These events were inevitable, but could signal a shift to a less profitable landscape for players.

    A year ago there was unbridled optimism for dfs. Reality has set in and I don’t like it.

    FCK

  • impurityz

    Would be nice if there was a trio of major sites.

  • misfit

    I have been wondering this myself the last few months.
    I think what FTD started with acquiring all these sites FOOLISHLY spending millions on the same exact players who didnt want to play at FTD has damaged the industry badly.
    They drove out hundreds of users.
    Now DK uses a model that clearly failed several times over at FTD and will most likely drive out even more.
    I see no benefit at all here. I think it is bad for the industry in every way.
    This time last year all I heard was nothing but good about DFS. This year I hear little to nothing and the few things we do hear are not good.
    I pray to god my gut is wrong though.
    I may not sound like it but I sure do wish DK the best with this.
    Because if it goes as badly as what FTD has done we are screwed.

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    It’s also worrisome when higher rake sites win out. But as I admit I played more on dk than ds. Even with the 15% rake I often pay.

    FCK

  • Putz

    @fishcakeking said…

    Is The DFS sky falling?

    Although I didn’t play volume on DS, the removal of them from the marketplace will likely hurt me and other dfs players. The rake at DK is considerably higher.(didnt stop me before) Besides that, having fewer people competing for our dollar will likely shrink things like deposit bonuses and overlay.

    These events were inevitable, but could signal a shift to a less profitable landscape for players.

    A year ago there was unbridled optimism for dfs. Reality has set in and I don’t like it.

    FCK

    I don’t believe the sky is falling, but the more competition the better. This is setting up for a bigger war with/between the ESPNs, Yahoos, and CBSs when they begin to enter the market.

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    @Putz said…

    I don’t believe the sky is falling, but the more competition the better. This is setting up for a bigger war with/between the ESPNs, Yahoos, and CBSs when they begin to enter the market.

    Anybody who owns their own media outlet represents the biggest competition threat. With access to endless advertisement and programming they would be able to defer the high user acquisition cost.

    Without a player like that things will get tougher for hardcore dfs players. IMO.

    FCK

  • kaetorade

    • 2013 DraftStreet DSBBC Finalist

    @fishcakeking said…

    It’s also worrisome when higher rake sites win out. But as I admit I played more on dk than ds. Even with the 15% rake I often pay.

    FCK

    And that’s why we’re here. There weren’t enough people who cared about rake…and some people still don’t understand why it’s bad for the players. I can only assume that the DS team will impact game types and offerings. I assume that rake will remain the same and that a rewards system can no longer be found on a traffic site. However, my outlook can change on a dime. I hope I’m proven wrong!

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    @kaetorade said…

    And that’s why we’re here. There weren’t enough people who cared about rake…and some people still don’t understand why it’s bad for the players. I can only assume that the DS team will impact game types and offerings. I assume that rake will remain the same and that a rewards system can no longer be found on a traffic site. However, my outlook can change on a dime. I hope I’m proven wrong!

    DK will likely not offer near the rake and incentives that DS did.

    From what I’m told of the situation is that DS was losing a ton of money and were forced to sell by investors. This deal was done at the end of the barrel of a gun.

    FCK

  • Putz

    Better question, how soon will FanDuel lose it’s “most popular DFS site” ranking?

    Then how soon will it take for FD to buy DD, so there are only two major players left to take on the ESPNs, Yahoos and CBSs?

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    My bet is that FD holds their title. Buying DD isn’t the worst idea. Still think DD has the best core interface in the business.

    FCK

  • pokerrob1970

    DraftDay BLB Finalist

    Wonder how pissed off MGT is that thy couldn’t get their slimy hands onto DS. That would have been 1 million times worse.

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    @pokerrob1970 said…

    Wonder how pissed off MGT is that thy couldn’t get their slimy hands onto DS. That would have been 1 million times worse.

    MGT couldn’t afford it. FD could have, but they didn’t. Says something.

    FCK

  • stlcardinals84

    Leading RG Analyst

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    @pokerrob1970 said…

    Wonder how pissed off MGT is that thy couldn’t get their slimy hands onto DS. That would have been 1 million times worse.

    I don’t often wholeheartedly agree with PokerRob, but this is the most poignant thing you have ever posted on the forums.

    You are so right.

  • fishcakeking

    FCK

    Yes I’m still looking for my buzzdraft money.

    FCK

  • badtouch

    • Ranked #99

      RG Tiered Ranking

    I hope I’m not just being overly pessimistic and paranoid but I’m with FCK on this one. I don’t like this one bit.

    And yeah, this happening instead of MGT buyin DS was the lesser of two evils. I don’t want anything to do with MGT at all.

  • Frickman81

    Coming from a noobie I agree!!! I won close to 40k in a month in a half I had two fairly large cashes before I knew anything about rg and signed up but after reading these posts and players that we play against working or helping the site we play at is alarming. Then on top of that all this talk about msg or whatever it is and buying ds makes you wonder

  • Stonecoldnuts

    Im a little worried like everyone…I personally was starting to like draftstreet and was about to put some of my fanduel roll on there..then this happened…I never went to draftkings because personally I hate the interface and the look of the site. Fanduel is so much easier to navigate through and set things up imo. I find myself kind of lost on draftkings trying to get things set up and figure out what to enter on a nightly basis for cash games….I completely agree that a year ago things seemed a lot better…I mean the deep pocket players could care less really…but for the true grinders the outlook looks cloudy…but time will tell and im just going to see how the future unfolds before I shift any action to draftkings…

  • tipster808

    Personally I think FCK’s fears are justified.

    The fact of the matter is that I once thought DFS had a pretty high ceiling. Not as high as poker, but reasonably high.

    However, watching a site like Draftstreet get sold off to DK is making me reassess things. Because let’s be brutally honest here, regardless of what the eternally optimistic people say on here, IAC sold DS because DS was losing a lot of money. Anyone who wants to argue otherwise, then please ask yourself why would IAC willingly sell off a company that it bought a huge share in and gave a ton of money to only 14 months ago?

    A lot of things we liked so much about DS (rake back, bonusing, etc.) likely led to this point. You can only do so much of that before you’re a site that is in desperate need of selling – because you’re deep in the red from giving away whatever you made in revenues back to players. So on that end, I think FCK is spot on, expect sites to be less generous.

    And why will they be less generous? Because if we all take a real hard look at this space, what sites are in fact really making money? We know DS wasn’t, it’s why they were sold. DK has a long term vision, but I would think they’re definitely in the red as well. My guess is based on their public numbers, FanDuel is the only site that is actually profitable. But probably not by much. It takes a lot of people to run these sites, which I think we always forget.

    I know people keep talking about how this industry is in its infancy, it’s in its growth stage, blah blah blah, but I’m not so sure it’s as rosy as we all want to think it is. If it is, then wouldn’t it be better to just spend your money acquiring tons of new players rather than spending money on a dying competitor? Yes, this space is a land grab for customers, but is it so bereft of customers that acquiring sites is the key to gaining players? If it is, we should all be very worried.

    And while I know SI isn’t ESPN or Yahoo, their game has been a dud out of the gate as well. Granted, there are many reasons for that, but it’s not like SI has no one on their site. They have people they can push to the game.

    I’m not even 100% sure that Yahoo or ESPN can crack things completely either. Yes, they can get a lot of people to try something, but will it stick? It almost seems like DFS has yet to really discover its version of Texas Hold ‘Em. The question is will it ever? It may not. That’s not a popular question to ask here, I realize, but I think it’s worth asking.

  • headChopper

    RG Contributor (OG Status)

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    To answer your original question- No the sky is not falling. The opposite is happening I believe. Having 1-2 giants will only make things better in the long run.
    If a player doesn’t care about volume and just wants a “niche” site(which is what DS had become I believe) then he is going to have to turn to one of the smaller mom and pop sites that will always be out there. The mom and pop sites are coming to terms with the fact that they just aren’t going to make the millions they originally thought they could in this space.
    As far as the valid points in this thread on rake, maybe I’m off on this but I think once DK settles into this acquisition and we have these 2 giants competing the lower rake is sure to follow.
    This is the beginning of a new era. Embrace it. Around football season there is going to be an influx of new players that has never been seen before. Now they’re all going to be funneled into us by 2 sites.

  • everettcase

    @headChopper said…

    This is the beginning of a new era. Embrace it. Around football season there is going to be an influx of new players that has never been seen before. Now they’re all going to be funneled into us by 2 sites.

    I agree, Chop. Things are changing and people are quick to assume it’s for the worse. There may be short-term hiccups, but I think DFS will continue to grow, and that’s something we should all be rooting for.

  • hambazaza

    RG Blog Program Manager, 2014 RG Party Beer Pong Champion

    • Blogger of the Month

    • Beer Pong Champion

    @headChopper said…

    To answer your original question- No the sky is not falling. The opposite is happening I believe. Having 1-2 giants will only make things better in the long run.
    If a player doesn’t care about volume and just wants a “niche” site(which is what DS had become I believe) then he is going to have to turn to one of the smaller mom and pop sites that will always be out there. The mom and pop sites are coming to terms with the fact that they just aren’t going to make the millions they originally thought they could in this space.
    As far as the valid points in this thread on rake, maybe I’m off on this but I think once DK settles into this acquisition and we have these 2 giants competing the lower rake is sure to follow.
    This is the beginning of a new era. Embrace it. Around football season there is going to be an influx of new players that has never been seen before. Now they’re all going to be funneled into us by 2 sites.

    i agree on everything except for the low rake. there is no reason for the two sites to not collaborate and determine that their “optimum” rake charged to the consumer (us) is around 15-20% varying based on the competition type.

    we’ve already seen some questionable accounting with the major baseball tournaments, and we’ve seen some high rake from DKs.

    people still play and max out tournaments with 20% rake, and people still play h2h games with 10% rake without batting an eyelash. I think its ok, but sites will always try to push the envelope when it comes to how much money they can make.

    Remember, no business will ever charge less when they think they can charge more.

  • searchmonkey

    IF the future of DFS is the current pricing models that FD and DK employ, then I dont think that is a good thing.

    I dont see two leaders being the optimal amount and I dont believe that scenario will lower rake.

  • alsmizzle

    • 2013 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

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      RG Overall Ranking

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    @hambazaza said…

    i agree on everything except for the low rake. there is no reason for the two sites to not collaborate and determine that their “optimum” rake charged to the consumer (us) is around 15-20% varying based on the competition type.

    we’ve already seen some questionable accounting with the major baseball tournaments, and we’ve seen some high rake from DKs.

    people still play and max out tournaments with 20% rake, and people still play h2h games with 10% rake without batting an eyelash. I think its ok, but sites will always try to push the envelope when it comes to how much money they can make.

    Remember, no business will ever charge less when they think they can charge more.

    If we’ve learned anything about DK and FD, it’s that they don’t collaborate on anything.

  • Dogstraightup

    Completely agree…DS was not losing money it was a long-term strategy play by both DK and DS to complete the merger.

    Timing makes complete sense, funnel all the players into a DK vs FD war just in time for football season. This will also likely be the last season before the ESPNS, Yahoos, CBS’s etc get in the game so DK/DS basically figured going all-in was the best move.

    Next month and a half you can bet there will be an unbelievable amount of advertising $$ spent to acquire new players.

    HeadChop is right as this is not the sky falling out but just the new era…watch the empahsis on big pots, huge payouts, etc. all the marketing gimmicks to attract players. Sure the serious players care about the low rakes and other cool features DS had, but this is going to be a whole new ballgame…

  • alsmizzle

    • 2013 RotoGrinders TPOY Champion

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    @Dogstraightup said…

    Completely agree…DS was not losing money it was a long-term strategy play by both DK and DS to complete the merger.

    Timing makes complete sense, funnel all the players into a DK vs FD war just in time for football season. This will also likely be the last season before the ESPNS, Yahoos, CBS’s etc get in the game so DK/DS basically figured going all-in was the best move.

    Next month and a half you can bet there will be an unbelievable amount of advertising $$ spent to acquire new players.

    HeadChop is right as this is not the sky falling out but just the new era…watch the empahsis on big pots, huge payouts, etc. all the marketing gimmicks to attract players. Sure the serious players care about the low rakes and other cool features DS had, but this is going to be a whole new ballgame…

    Wrong.

    Every site is currently in the red.

  • thedude404

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @headChopper said…

    To answer your original question- No the sky is not falling. The opposite is happening I believe. Having 1-2 giants will only make things better in the long run.
    If a player doesn’t care about volume and just wants a “niche” site(which is what DS had become I believe) then he is going to have to turn to one of the smaller mom and pop sites that will always be out there. The mom and pop sites are coming to terms with the fact that they just aren’t going to make the millions they originally thought they could in this space.
    As far as the valid points in this thread on rake, maybe I’m off on this but I think once DK settles into this acquisition and we have these 2 giants competing the lower rake is sure to follow.
    This is the beginning of a new era. Embrace it. Around football season there is going to be an influx of new players that has never been seen before. Now they’re all going to be funneled into us by 2 sites.

    I hope you are right about the rake thing….

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