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  • Mphst18

    https://www.youtube.com/user/joeingram1

    The Saahil conversation around the 56 min mark talks about the Channing Frye incident and IMO it appears he is saying he was able to swap frye in all his lineups and whether or not others could he doesn’t really address, all he knows is he could global player swap. Also the overcompensating of the situation, and hands to the mouth are body signs of not being truthful.

    The Daut interview starts off well and he actually makes a good point on the sites situations around rake and keeping Saahils volume along with acknowledging the community guidelines being lip service and unenforceable.

    He leaves a lot out of his explanation of the kings cup and Millionaire maker incidents. Also makes a weird point that since it was a drawn out event that the 5K buyin wasn’t worth “their” time (yet playing $1 H2H is?????)

    The conversation starts to drag on about non dfs stuff but towards the end he starts talking about sitting people and constantly uses the term “we” instead of I.

  • jimmyrad

    @Mphst18 said...

    Also the overcompensating of the situation, and hands to the mouth are body signs of not being truthful.

    Randomly inserting off the wall nonsense like this into your posts just makes it that much harder to take you seriously.

  • w3stcoastoff3ns3

    I felt reeeeeal dirty after watching that. If I was a high stakes DFS player, I would never do interviews like this.

  • Mphst18

    @jimmyrad said...

    Randomly inserting off the wall nonsense like this into your posts just makes it that much harder to take you seriously.

    Thankfully I’m not concerned if JIMMYRAD takes me seriously.

    http://parade.com/57236/viannguyen/former-cia-officers-share-6-ways-to-tell-if-someones-lying/

  • jimmyrad

    @Mphst18 said...

    Thankfully I’m not concerned if JIMMYRAD takes me seriously.

    http://parade.com/57236/viannguyen/former-cia-officers-share-6-ways-to-tell-if-someones-lying/

    Your internet learned body language tells are about as useful as a palm reader, next.

  • Olhausen

    @Mphst18 said...

    Thankfully I’m not concerned if JIMMYRAD takes me seriously.

    http://parade.com/57236/viannguyen/former-cia-officers-share-6-ways-to-tell-if-someones-lying/

    No one takes you seriously. Maybe if you stopped making thread after thread about what winning players are doing you’d actually be one yourself.

  • deactivated84892

    Have made it a point to check these out. Even checked out the old Assani one.

    Always very interested to hear insight and opinions from the top of the leaderboards and even moreso love the unfiltered feel of these videos.

    Thanks to Joe and the guests for taking time to do ‘em.

  • JDub07

    Joe Ingram’s podcasts are gold. No commercials and authentic feel. Great stories from Vegas regularly…Enjoyable listen.

  • TheRealJosh5

    Thought Saahil’s was good, Daut’s was good but dragged on for 3 hours..

  • TwoSHAE

    @TheRealJosh5 said...

    Thought Saahil’s was good, Daut’s was good but dragged on for 3 hours..

    2x playback speed on youtube is a nice feature, especially when the video is irrelevant and you’re really just there for the audio.

  • Mphst18

    Boy is Assani burying himself.

    He is coming across as saying his job is to maximize his EV based on the rules even if that means he operates in gray areas and basically while he will listen to your ideas as to why that’s bad unless the sites tell him stop doing it he’s going to continue to do it.

    He thinks people who want him to stop playing low limits are whining so they can have soft games yet he says its to much money for him to turn away by not playing in low stakes ( hmm seems like you are the one whining you don’t want to stop playing soft games as opposed to the people who don’t think you or they should be preying on beginners)

    Out of one side of his mouth in the interview he says he will continue to operate in any way that gives him +EV as long as within his interpretation of the rules but of the other side of his mouth he says he wants to work with people to clean up the gray areas (the same areas he is willing to exploit and will continue to exploit until the sites tell him not too).

    He thinks players should spend more time on improving their games instead of spending time find thes obvious scrupulous behaviors (it takes under 30 min) that go on but he also wants players to self police.

    Maybe he should offer the same philosophy he has around players spending more time on their game to the sites and advise them they should use more of their time, money and effort around cleaning up their product than on false advertising but that would hurt his precious EV.

  • Jcb890

    @Mphst18 said...

    Boy is Assani burying himself.

    He is coming across as saying his job is to maximize his EV based on the rules even if that means he operates in gray areas and basically while he will listen to your ideas as to why that’s bad unless the sites tell him stop doing it he’s going to continue to do it.

    He thinks people who want him to stop playing low limits are whining so they can have soft games yet he says its to much money for him to turn away by not playing in low stakes ( hmm seems like you are the one whining you don’t want to stop playing soft games as opposed to the people who don’t think you or they should be preying on beginners)

    Out of one side of his mouth in the interview he says he will continue to operate in any way that gives him +EV as long as within his interpretation of the rules but of the other side of his mouth he says he wants to work with people to clean up the gray areas (the same areas he is willing to exploit and will continue to exploit until the sites tell him not too).

    He thinks players should spend more time on improving their games instead of spending time find thes obvious scrupulous behaviors (it takes under 30 min) that go on but he also wants players to self police.

    Maybe he should offer the same philosophy he has around players spending more time on their game to the sites and advise them they should use more of their time, money and effort around cleaning up their product than on false advertising but that would hurt his precious EV.

    I didn’t listen to the podcast, but that makes it sound like he’s being realistic, though, yes, hypocritical.

    Should “pros” (whatever term you want to use) be bum-hunting still and playing in $1 head-to-heads or maxing out quarter arcade entries? I think the general consensus is – of course not! However, it isn’t against the rules, so the “pros” are going to keep exploiting it… just like every other loophole they are able to use to gain an edge on the competition.

    People are in this to make money. There is not going to be self-policing, period. The reasoning is simple… people are playing DFS to make money and money can be made. All of this is 100% on the sites to control and police. Saying there should be self-policing is nothing more than providing lip-service to keep the pitchforks at bay because everyone knows there is no chance of that actually happening.

  • sethayates

    @Jcb890 said...

    I didn’t listen to the podcast, but that makes it sound like he’s being realistic, though, yes, hypocritical.

    Should “pros” (whatever term you want to use) be bum-hunting still and playing in $1 head-to-heads or maxing out quarter arcade entries? I think the general consensus is – of course not! However, it isn’t against the rules, so the “pros” are going to keep exploiting it… just like every other loophole they are able to use to gain an edge on the competition.

    People are in this to make money. There is not going to be self-policing, period. The reasoning is simple… people are playing DFS to make money and money can be made. All of this is 100% on the sites to control and police. Saying there should be self-policing is nothing more than providing lip-service to keep the pitchforks at bay because everyone knows there is no chance of that actually happening.

    A few years ago FD and DK released their NFL contests ridiculously early. I believe it was the end of July or early August. They did this because they were advertising in season-long magazines and didn’t want new players to come to the site but not see any NFL games to enter.

    This meant a lot of new people would sign up for FanDuel in early August, enter a contest and then never come back to edit their team. I heard a respected pro mention that savvy players should post their H2Hs early with the logic being that you’ll face some ridiculously easy H2Hs. For example, people would have aplayer in their lineup who tore their ACL in preseason.

    So let’s imagine that you are a “pro” and you know a bunch of new players will put out terrible lineups. Let’s assume that you know you’ll win 80% of these contests. Should you post your games early to take advantage of new players? Keep in mind that if you don’t someone else will. If there’s a $25 H2H against a guy with 0 games played ever would anyone actually walk away and say, “Nah, I don’t want to pick on the new guy.”

    As has been said in this thread and countless others. It is the sites job to build an ecosystem. Players like Assani should provide their input when asked but as long as the rules allow them to continue making easy money there’s really no reason for them not to do it.

  • Jcb890

    @sethayates said...

    A few years ago FD and DK released their NFL contests ridiculously early. I believe it was the end of July or early August. They did this because they were advertising in season-long magazines and didn’t want new players to come to the site but not see any NFL games to enter.

    This meant a lot of new people would sign up for FanDuel in early August, enter a contest and then never come back to edit their team. I heard a respected pro mention that savvy players should post their H2Hs early with the logic being that you’ll face some ridiculously easy H2Hs. For example, people would have aplayer in their lineup who tore their ACL in preseason.

    So let’s imagine that you are a “pro” and you know a bunch of new players will put out terrible lineups. Let’s assume that you know you’ll win 80% of these contests. Should you post your games early to take advantage of new players? Keep in mind that if you don’t someone else will. If there’s a $25 H2H against a guy with 0 games played ever would anyone actually walk away and say, “Nah, I don’t want to pick on the new guy.”

    As has been said in this thread and countless others. It is the sites job to build an ecosystem. Players like Assani should provide their input when asked but as long as the rules allow them to continue making easy money there’s really no reason for them not to do it.

    I agree. As I said in my post, people simply will not police themselves. Money is involved, so there is absolutely no chance of it happening. And to be honest, there’s not much reason to shit on anyone who is taking advantage of this. It isn’t against the rules because the websites haven’t stepped up to bat. That is the real problem and has been all along – regulation and actual rules and follow-through from the DFS sites.

  • escot4

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    @Mphst18 said...

    Boy is Assani burying himself.

    Not sure how he’s burying himself when he isn’t doing anything against the rules.

  • PigskinaBlanket

    • 236

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      2016 DraftKings FGWC Finalist

    checked out the podcast. Actually, very good listen and Joe is engaging. Will check these out often.

  • bhdevault

    • Lead Moderator

    • Blogger of the Month

    I just finished it as well and really enjoyed it.

  • Mphst18

    @sethayates said...

    Keep in mind that if you don’t someone else will

    I don’t raise an issue with “pros” playing $25 H2H but at the $1 H2H level then yes I disagree.

    Avoiding doing the right thing because the wrong thing is certain to occur anyway is faulty and self-serving logic.

    The notion that a “pros” refusal to play a $1H2H will only hurt them without preventing the damage of some other “pro” preying on your example at the $1H2H level may be true but the impact of a “pro” not doing it may lead to a greater outcome for the industry.

  • yogaflame

    If you have a problem with people legally pushing the rules to the limit for maximum EV then you are playing the wrong game, I’m afraid. Focus solely on people that are clearly violating the rules to gain an advantage imo.

  • Mphst18

    @yogaflame said...

    If you have a problem with people legally pushing the rules to the limit for maximum EV then you are playing the wrong game, I’m afraid. Focus solely on people that are clearly violating the rules to gain an advantage imo.

    Its a good statement but big picture what is most likely to occur (while even though this behavior isn’t illegal) is

    new players stop playing because they are sick of getting prayed upon by “pros” at the lowest of stakes (they have no games they can play without feeling disgusted)

    now that these select few pros who do this have chased off all new players all that is left is pros playing pros who then call the game unplayable (rake is unbeatable)

    And thus DFS ends all over a few 20-60 “pros” who couldn’t resist soft games at the lowest of low stakes.

  • pal

    Which is more important for DFS success:

    Build better lineups

    or

    Exploit gray areas

  • Jcb890

    @Mphst18 said...

    Its a good statement but big picture what is most likely to occur (while even though this behavior isn’t illegal) is

    new players stop playing because they are sick of getting prayed upon by “pros” at the lowest of stakes (they have no games they can play without feeling disgusted)

    now that these select few pros who do this have chased off all new players all that is left is pros playing pros who then call the game unplayable (rake is unbeatable)

    And thus DFS ends all over a few 20-60 “pros” who couldn’t resist soft games at the lowest of low stakes.

    While you’re not wrong, it is also not the job of these “pros” to “do what is right”. When money can be made, people cannot be trusted to do the right thing. It just doesn’t work that way. Once again, it is the job OF THE DFS SITES to police this, regulate things and actually work towards their “fair play” claims. Until the sites do something, nothing will change. And no, creating a set of Guidelines and Rules that will not be reinforced does not change anything – looking at you Draft Kings.

  • Mphst18

    @Jcb890 said...

    While you’re not wrong, it is also not the job of these “pros” to “do what is right”. When money can be made, people cannot be trusted to do the right thing. It just doesn’t work that way. Once again, it is the job OF THE DFS SITES to police this, regulate things and actually work towards their “fair play” claims. Until the sites do something, nothing will change. And no, creating a set of Guidelines and Rules that will not be reinforced does not change anything – looking at you Draft Kings.

    t

  • baseballs

    favorite part of the podcasts are when joey reads off who’s in live chat and there’s no reaction from either of them when he reads “mphst” even though they were talking about him five minutes ago.

  • deactivated84892

    So, OP, you gonna go on the podcast?

  • Mphst18

    @gundacker said...

    So, OP, you gonna go on the podcast?

    I mean I don’t think I’d be that interesting or that people want to hear the issues I talk about instead of hearing about football. But I wouldn’t have an issue especially if it just enlightens some to the risks and consequences that will occur if these grey areas continue to be exploited. It doesn’t hurt to hear the other side every once in a while.

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