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  • Jshiffy

    Important: this is not an attack on Kyle, I’ve listened to some interviews with him and follow him on twitter and he seems like a cool guy, this is simply a question.

    That being said, has anybody had experience with Kyle scooping your NHL h2h this year? I feel like he has scooped exactly 1 of my $1 h2h before i can even reload the page no matter what time I create the game. Is it possible he is using a script or software?

  • deactivated70850

    Oh, the irony here. People will always back corruption and get upset when others expose the fraud for what it is. Sit back, grab your popcorn, and get ready for the fireworks; I can promise you they are on the way. Good luck!!

  • ItzJamesFTW

    These attack posts and witch-hunts in the DFS community are getting old.

    If FD approved it, then be mad at FD.

    If you are facing Cannon in a $1 H2H, beat him.

    Just because you play low stakes doesn’t entitle you to playing other inexperienced opponents. Yeah I get it, DFS Ecosystem, longevity, rabble rabble rabble. DFS just saw its biggest week in week six of NFL. It’s not going anywhere.

    I don’t use scripts, just saying before someone tries to just flip this on me.

    I know this argument has been beat to death but everything is a god damn problem to you people in these forums. You can pick the same players he can, none of us play the game, none of us know the outcomes. Beat them. Learn something from them. Move on. Or just don’t waste your time playing $1 H2H games? Just play a 50/50, but I am sure we will find something to complain about there too.

    Not everyone spends every second in these forums so don’t burn the dude for taking time to respond. FD should be able to recognize when someone is using any form of tool. Rules have been very unclear over the past few months with a lot of changes and a lot of “verbage” gets mixed up in the shuffle. Stop taking mistakes and turning them into conspiracies.

  • Putz

    @ItzJamesFTW said...

    These attack posts and witch-hunts in the DFS community are getting old.

    If FD approved it, then be mad at FD.

    If you are facing Cannon in a $1 H2H, beat him.

    Just because you play low stakes doesn’t entitle you to playing other inexperienced opponents. Yeah I get it, DFS Ecosystem, longevity, rabble rabble rabble. DFS just saw its biggest week in week six of NFL. It’s not going anywhere.

    I don’t use scripts, just saying before someone tries to just flip this on me.

    I know this argument has been beat to death but everything is a god damn problem to you people in these forums. You can pick the same players he can, none of us play the game, none of us know the outcomes. Beat them. Learn something from them. Move on. Or just don’t waste your time playing $1 H2H games? Just play a 50/50, but I am sure we will find something to complain about there too.

    Summary: build better lineups.

  • browns79

    @ItzJamesFTW said...

    These attack posts and witch-hunts in the DFS community are getting old.

    If FD approved it, then be mad at FD.

    If you are facing Cannon in a $1 H2H, beat him.

    Just because you play low stakes doesn’t entitle you to playing other inexperienced opponents. Yeah I get it, DFS Ecosystem, longevity, rabble rabble rabble. DFS just saw its biggest week in week six of NFL. It’s not going anywhere.

    I don’t use scripts, just saying before someone tries to just flip this on me.

    I know this argument has been beat to death but everything is a god damn problem to you people in these forums.

    This is what I picture every time someone thinks there is no cheating or corruption in an unregulated industry that pays out almost 200 million dollars a week.

  • ItzJamesFTW

    @browns79 said...

    This is what I picture every time someone thinks there is no cheating or corruption in an unregulated industry that pays out almost 200 million dollars a week.

    Glad someone who has an account that is six days old has such strong opinions and great understanding.

    I personally don’t think there is cheating or corruption. Call me naive or whatever you want. I have found great success in DFS and am in the Green. I have competed at several levels (though my preference is low stakes) and I have went head to head with the big names. Lineups that beat me are just better than mine on that given day. I can accept that. And I also study what they did different that I did and learn from it. I know there is so much more to this issue, but everytime a complaint comes up the actual point at the core is High ranked player vs. Fish. Fish loses. Fish gets mad. Fish wants to find someone to blame besides self.

    DFS being unregulated shouldn’t make it an assumption that it’s corrupt. It’s so large already that a “ownership scandal” made every nightly news program. Imagine what an actual controversy would do to the industry.

    If you think it is corrupt, don’t play.

    If you sign the class action lawsuit, you shouldn’t be able to play DFS ever again. See how many of you nope the hell out of that whole thing.

  • jockpostdt

    @ItzJamesFTW said...

    If you think it is corrupt, don’t play.

    That’s such a terrible take. As if this horse hasn’t been beaten to death enough over the last week… It’s not wrong to question the policies and procedures of ANY unregulated industry to ensure the wellbeing of the industry that we all love for the future. I’m not sure why that is such a difficult concept to grasp.

  • sethayates

    @ItzJamesFTW said...

    These attack posts and witch-hunts in the DFS community are getting old.

    If FD approved it, then be mad at FD.

    If you are facing Cannon in a $1 H2H, beat him.

    Just because you play low stakes doesn’t entitle you to playing other inexperienced opponents. Yeah I get it, DFS Ecosystem, longevity, rabble rabble rabble. DFS just saw its biggest week in week six of NFL. It’s not going anywhere.

    I don’t use scripts, just saying before someone tries to just flip this on me.

    I know this argument has been beat to death but everything is a god damn problem to you people in these forums. You can pick the same players he can, none of us play the game, none of us know the outcomes. Beat them. Learn something from them. Move on. Or just don’t waste your time playing $1 H2H games? Just play a 50/50, but I am sure we will find something to complain about there too.

    Not everyone spends every second in these forums so don’t burn the dude for taking time to respond. FD should be able to recognize when someone is using any form of tool. Rules have been very unclear over the past few months with a lot of changes and a lot of “verbage” gets mixed up in the shuffle. Stop taking mistakes and turning them into conspiracies.

    The problem is that the site was allowing kcannon access to differentiate opponents but then he was effectively blocking anyone else from being able to do the same. The reason people play H2Hs is to reduce variance. The idea is that if you find 100 different opponents you should win roughly the amount you deserve. If you build a 45 percentile lineup you win about 45 percent of your games.

    By using this script, kcannon was able to get one game per opponent as they were posted. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. The problem is that kcannon’s script effectively blocked anyone else from getting the same opportunity. If I want to try and find 100 different H2Hs using a manual process I can’t because anytime a new person posts a H2H it gets automatically scooped. Also, when players H2H is instantly scooped by the same person they quit posting H2Hs in the future. This effectively limits the amount of action available in the lobby.

    I will continue to repeat the same thing everyone else is saying. FD and DK need to end automation. ALL OF IT. If FD/DK want to allow something similar to what kcannon was using, it needs to be built into the site. Everyone should get the same opportunity to differentiate their action. Allowing someone to run an automated process is not fair.

  • ItzJamesFTW

    @jockpostdt said...

    That’s such a terrible take. As if this horse hasn’t been beaten to death enough over the last week… It’s not wrong to question the policies and procedures of ANY unregulated industry to ensure the wellbeing of the industry that we all love for the future. I’m not sure why that is such a difficult concept to grasp.

    It is perfectly fine to question their polices and procedures! I want my money safe and I want my games to be fair. I think DFS has steps to take to secure everyones trust again. From MY standpoint, I never once have felt like my games were unfair. I have read every article on this, listened to every interview with Jason Robbins, taken everything into account, and have made a decision myself that I do not feel like the games are corrupt or that there is cheating at any level. I choose not to wear the tin-foil hat then and I choose not to wear it now.

    I also feel during this trying time for DFS that some people need to stand up for the DFS community and the higher up players who have been dragged through the mud. I also have sympathy for the great workers across the industry who LOST THEIR JOBS because of this. But now because they worked at a site and succeeded at another, they have automatically been labeled with this cheating BS.

    So yes, my “terrible” simple take is just that. If you think it is corrupt and there is cheating, do not play. As a single person, you can not change the industry. The industry is changing itself. And whether or not you like the place the industry is going is what you need to decide on if you want to continue risking money in it. I think there is things DFS can change, but if you are putting in money, I don’t think you should be told what you can and can’t do with it. If DFS sites want to change that in the future, then they will. If FD approved the scripting tool, then FD bad. If they didn’t then FD needs to take further steps to DETECT scripts. If they can’t take steps to detect it, nothing will change. Whole point was before we had a 21 page dispute witchhunting Cannon, maybe we should get both sides and not automatically start the cheating chants again. That shit got us national last time, we don’t need that attention.

  • ItzJamesFTW

    @sethayates said...

    . The problem is that kcannon’s script effectively blocked anyone else from getting the same opportunity.

    This is a much better explanation than anything in this entire thread and I agree with the disparity over this.

  • deactivated70850

    Ich hatte gern eine Kaffee bitte

    Ich liebe RG Foren.

  • srolleDFS

    @jockpostdt said...

    That’s such a terrible take. As if this horse hasn’t been beaten to death enough over the last week… It’s not wrong to question the policies and procedures of ANY unregulated industry to ensure the wellbeing of the industry that we all love for the future. I’m not sure why that is such a difficult concept to grasp.

    no its not.

    dfs is just a game. fd and dk are businesses. the critics are paying money right along with all the happy customers. you think they care about the differences? the only reason they care is because all of the critics have raised the risk that the entire game is going to be made illegal. they are fighting to keep it legal.

    people pretend like fd/dk are their child’s PTA. they aren’t. wake up. you think joe drape (who has a long history with horse racing) or voulgaris (who has a long history with sportsbetting) want to keep the game “we all love” alive? its a street fight bt dfs and the industries that dfs is destroying. this “for the love of the game” perspective is so naive. the real world doesnt work like a high school civics class.

  • soonerdawg

    @sethayates said...

    The problem is that kcannon’s script effectively blocked anyone else from getting the same opportunity. If I want to try and find 100 different H2Hs using a manual process I can’t because anytime a new person posts a H2H it gets automatically scooped.

    wow….you just changed my opinion by pointing this out….kcannon is now a deuche in my book….thanks for explaining this in terms that even i can understand

  • tomac

    @ItzJamesFTW said...

    This is a much better explanation than anything in this entire thread and I agree with the disparity over this.

    You needed that explained?

  • jockpostdt

    @srolleDFS said...

    people pretend like fd/dk are their child’s PTA.

    I think a more accurate analogy would be that people pretend FD/DK are billion dollar corporations with aspirations to IPO, and should be held to a certain level of standards in terms of policies and procedures.

    I’m not sure how that is in the least bit naive.

  • srolleDFS

    @jockpostdt said...

    I think a more accurate analogy would be that people pretend FD/DK are billion dollar corporations with aspirations to IPO, and should be held to a certain level of standards in terms of policies and procedures.

    I’m not sure how that is in the least bit naive.

    being naive is exclusive with being self-aware of being naive by definition.

    most people dont care about any of this stuff, they just enjoy playing. how many people come onto these forums to complain about something they “love”? nearly everyone that plays dfs just plays the game. there probably 20-50 people, like you, dedicated to trolling the big sites over every imagined scandal. and then how many people will just play this weekend? maybe 500,000? its just a loud ultra-minority that is raising issue after issue in hopes that some gambling lobbyist will run with it.

  • deactivated70850

    JOCK NAILED IT.

  • jockpostdt

    @srolleDFS said...

    there probably 20-50 people, like you, dedicated to trolling the big sites over every imagined scandal. and then how many people will just play this weekend? maybe 500,000? its just a loud ultra-minority that is raising issue after issue in hopes that some gambling lobbyist will run with it

    Here’s a link to my post history to debunk your ridiculously derogatory accusation of trolling: https://rotogrinders.com/profiles/jockpostdt

    Additionally, here’s a link to a blog I wrote on RG a few months ago to help newer players with bankroll management: https://rotogrinders.com/blog-posts/what-did-we-learn-this-week-the-importance-of-bankroll-management-462468

    The last line of the blog reads “I love Daily Fantasy Sports, and the more people we can get to stick around and play, the better off we all are.”

    “Most people don’t care about any of this stuff” is PRECISELY the reason that discussions like this NEED to happen. While I don’t think bum-hunting scripts are good for the industry, the issue lies on FanDuel for allowing it to happen. By OP posting this issue, it has the potential to be addressed and fixed.

    Transparency is not a bad thing.

  • mrspree15

    @srolleDFS said...

    its just a loud ultra-minority that is raising issue after issue in hopes that some gambling lobbyist will run with it.

    You think players posting at RG, raising issues that the sites have ignored for YEARS, are just in it to troll big sites? Not because they want better from the sites?

  • srolleDFS

    @mrspree15 said...

    You think players posting at RG, raising issues that the sites have ignored for YEARS, are just in it to troll big sites? Not because they want better from the sites?

    this is my point exactly. they have been ignoring this for years. and they have competed most of their competition out of business while doing it, while growing the industry by more than 10x.

    what does that tell you?

    it tells me that dfs isnt a democracy. im not against alot of the reasonable stuff people want. im just not willing to stop playing to get it. and it seems like nobody else is either. i dont see the big problem. i put in lineups, my players accumulate points, and prizes are paid out. deposits and withdrawals are efficiently processed. if those things didnt work right, i might not play. if someone was lining your pockets while telling you that you needed to do everything different, what would u do?

  • deactivated70850

    May we get what we want,
    May we get what we need,
    But may we never get what we deserve.

  • ItzJamesFTW

    @tomac said...

    You needed that explained?

    In a rabble of 20 pages a lot of main information gets shuffled around. Difference between a script and one that auto scoops. Still it’s he said/she said.

  • jockpostdt

    @srolleDFS said...

    i dont see the big problem. i put in lineups, my players accumulate points, and prizes are paid out. deposits and withdrawals are efficiently processed. if those things didnt work right, i might not play. if someone was lining your pockets while telling you that you needed to do everything different, what would u do?

    What is the point you are trying to make here?

    I read it as “I don’t care if there are issues in DFS as long as they aren’t affecting me”.

    To me, this callous attitude is incredibly disruptive to the future of DFS. Potentially more so than the terrible stories being broadcast. I think it might make sense for you to take a step back and view the current topics from a wider lens.

  • hbbomaha

    @Putz said...

    Summary: build better lineups.

    So Putz, you seem reasonable enough, would you mind answering an opinion question on the Kcannon situation?

    Let’s operate under the premise that it was inadvertent running a targeting script that was against TOS.

    If FD approved and KCannon self-reported as a result of this thread, do you agree with the actions taken by FD?

    That is to say, investigation, determination that it was in violation, disabling the script and reinstating?

    Just curious where you fall into the equity of punishment on the basis of intent and cooperation, not trying to steadfastly say the intent one way or another, just more philosophy of crime and punishment, as it were.

  • hendry

    @ItzJamesFTW said...

    This is a much better explanation than anything in this entire thread and I agree with the disparity over this.

    you should probably actually read the thread before making a post liek yours then. all you have to do is go back to page 20…like 8 posts before yours when the same point was made. believe it or not we’re not all stupid and bitter about losing. i dont lose. im not bitter. i just want a shot to beat the people he’s auto scooping.

  • tomac

    @ItzJamesFTW said...

    In a rabble of 20 pages a lot of main information gets shuffled around. Difference between a script and one that auto scoops. Still it’s he said/she said.

    My apologies if that came across wrong.

    I assumed we were operating from the basic tenet that auto scooping scripts kill the head to head cash game market. You are correct that this point can easily get lost in 20+ pages of infighting and obvious attempts to derail that point.

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