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  • killab2482

    • 162

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    Hey RG Members, I’ve decided to dip my toes in the DFS coaching arena. I’ve missed the days of helping students crush NL Hold’em back in the day. Coaching was essential for me to improve my overall poker game and I would not have reached the levels I did without some grooming/tutorship from fellow pros. I always want to be a student of the game in certain aspects(constant need to improve/learn) and teaching the game to others. Coaching has helped me stay hungry and refocus my attention to the process(long term) and not the results (short term).

    With that said, I have to be one of the first ever players to find the great game of DFS back when I was full time poker grinder. I joined a site called Instant Fantasy Sports in 2007: http://instantfantasysports.blogspot.com/. I have over 15 million invested in games since my software/computer/sites started tracking results in 2012. With my background as a poker player, I understood the nuances of Bankroll management, risk, variance and game theory that has helped me be super profitable in this industry. I’m excited to unlock some new concepts to future students or plug up certain leaks(known or unknown) that you have in your overall game. Each student has their own strengths and weaknesses and I will construct my teaching around that specific individual.

    In this dfs age of higher rake (18%, c’mon man!), it’s not as easy to profit. Lets plug your holes and make you the best dfs version of you. Here’s a link to view a more in depth coaching profile outline: https://rotogrinders.com/articles/killab2482-s-coaching-profile-2357554. Contact me via twitter: @killab2482 or through dm on rotogrinders (killab2482) and we can set up Skype or Google hangout schedule that works for the both of us!

    • Link
    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • jkidd1084

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @TnRiddles said...

    it is up to each individual buyer to determine the worth of his product…..not some rando giving rants

    “rando” who has known him for years and was involved in “team killab” that knows he isn’t making jack sht at DFS and is lying to people to gain credibility. I’d love to see what high stakes game he has beaten in the last 3 years in any game. Also, cash games are gigantic sample sizes, especially playing every sport. it’s really not hard to prove your ROI. 1099 will do the trick. So will exporting to XLS and simply highlighting your entry fee volume vs payout column to see what you’re up/down and ROI. Seems like a perfectly reasonable request if you’re planning to pay someone 250/hr as an “expert”

  • austin21

    • 995

      RG Overall Ranking

    @jkidd1084 said...

    One of his “accomplishments” for his coaching profile is that he was ranked #2 in NFL in 2013. This is the year that I was involved (only for about 6 weeks of NFL season). I know the people that were backing the operation, and I know that they were stuck big going into week 16? Maybe week 17.. I understand variance. It took a 2-300k week to get them unstuck for the year (with pretty much non-existent profit). My understanding is that year two was not going well, and they quit.

    Point is, being ranked 2nd at something means nothing when you aren’t even winning. Just because you are firing 7 figures of other peoples money doesn’t make you profitable, sharp, or good at the game. Keep in mind this is 2013. Games are much tougher now. Rake is higher now.

    Just wanting some transparency here is all, because I feel disgusted seeing this even being offered (deceptively).

    I won’t get into specifics of your reference to 2013. I will acknowledge that we can all agree to an extent that games, overall, are tougher at this point, in 2018.

    Much like your reference to the games getting tougher over the years…..would it be safe to assume that a DFS’er that has played the entire time during that span, has developed his game as well?

    The point I am making is you are using a reference to 2013 as your only “knowledge” of the player. How much can a person’s focus and skills change over a 4-5 year period?

    • Link
    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • jkidd1084

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @austin21 said...

    Much like your reference to the games getting tougher over the years…..would it be safe to assume that a DFS’er that has played the entire time during that span, has developed his game as well?

    The point I am making is you are using a reference to 2013 as your only “knowledge” of the player. How much can a person’s focus and skills change over a 4-5 year period?

    A. He is broke
    B. “Those who can’t do, teach”
    C. He has never beat high stakes and now he doesn’t even play them
    D. Lets see an ROI worthy of $250/hr. I’ll wait

    Oh and

    E. If you’re so sharp, why get defensive and embellish your prior career and claim to be some hotshot 25-50 reg that was regularly paid 500/hr for coaching in order to justify your pricing and maintain credibility.

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    This whole thing has turned into a personal agenda….why could you not have simply posted “ Before any of you pay this , I have some info that might sway your decision. Contact me if interested”……Let the consumer make their decision. Now you just look like you are jealous and airing personal dirty laundry

  • jkidd1084

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @TnRiddles said...

    This whole thing has turned into a personal agenda….why could you not have simply posted “ Before any of you pay this , I have some info that might sway your decision. Contact me if interested”……Let the consumer make their decision. Now you just look like you are jealous and airing personal dirty laundry

    It’s not a personal agenda. I haven’t spoken to Brett in years because I don’t agree with his treatment of people. I’ve done nothing malicious to him in over 3 years, why would I randomly start now? I genuinely feel that he is misleading people and it feels wrong not to let others know the truth. Why is it so wrong to educate a consumer?

    Thinking I’m jealous made me laugh. Of what?
    I have literally nothing to gain by this. Only trying to inform you of his lies and embellishments. Sorry!

  • jkidd1084

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    Here’s a cute tidbit to corroborate my story that someone dug up..

    https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/150/fantasy-sports/seeking-investors-2015-nfl-dfs-1550740/?highlight=killab2482

  • killab2482

    • 162

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @jkidd1084 said...

    Have known Brett for many years (shared houses, former poker pro as well, dfs dabbler, etc) and feel compelled to chime in here…

    1. You were never a 25-50 “reg”
    2. You were never paid $500/hr for coaching (granted, maybe one person did and it’s not a complete lie, but it was surely not sustained)
    3. Your only real volume in DFS was when you talked MY friend(s) into backing you for a 1-2 year stretch, which ended in a net loss and them quitting you.
    4. $250/hr is a complete fleecing
    5. Please provide results showing a respectable long term ROI on DK/FD (I know you won’t because it’s either embarrassingly low or you can’t beat the rake) Beating small games on Yahoo & Fantasy Draft doesn’t count.
    6. Maybe I’m dead wrong and you crush, but I would put a lot of money on this being a last ditch effort to avoid going busto

    On a positive note, he is a super nitty dude that seems to put in the effort/work. If you think you’re getting some elite mind to teach you to crush the game, please do not be fooled. If you’re cool with paying $250/hr to learn the basics of what tools/sites to use for research and a super basic daily process, go for it. He’s likely going to tell you to use FantasyLabs and a short list of sites I could provide in 15 seconds.

    Truth hurts. Burn less bridges. Best of luck

    Ok, I told Ross to repost your original thread, so I could personally address it. I don’t have a lot of times for rebuttals as I have a business meeting at 12:30 and then I’d like to dive in to tonight’s slate, but I’ll probably be popping in from time to time. Ok. Here we go:

    Backstory: So Jkidd1084(mike) met each other in January of 2010 At the Poker Stars PCA event and our friendship ended in September of 2013 when the investors decided to let him go from our company.

    1)I guess this matters what you define as a “reg.” It’s very true that I have less than 100k online hands at the 25/50nl stake after looking at my database, since games didn’t run often enough, but I did play plenty at Cake Poker and Carbon Poker. After those sites removed higher stakes I was left Playing 10/20nl over on Boavada(Ignition Casino). Playing in a casino setting I always played at leas $10/25nl which usually straddled for 50 up to 50/100nl. To be honest, there usually was more action at the 10/25, straddle 50 Bellagio games than the 25/50 or 50/100nl games. Also when playing 50/100nl I usually would sell a piece of myself.

    2 )I don’t have much of a poker teaching history. I just went back into 2 +2, Cardrunners, and My prop site (rakebacknation) forums/messages and counted less than 10 students. Curious as why you’d think or care to have any knowledge of this.

    3) Back in 2013, I decided to start up a company after talks with my accountant and how much the DFS space had blown up. I went to mutual friends of ours pitching the idea and showing them my successful database of results. After pitching the idea, me and 3 other investors threw in $50k for a $200k bankroll reserved only for the 2013 NFL dfs season. In 2013 we profited $145,000. ~13% ROI. 2 million invested. I invited my brother and mike to be a part of the team that year, since they had a passion for sports and I thought I could train them pretty easily. I want to say in week 4, Mike kept on complaining about how underpaid he was, so after multiple talks with the investors we decided to let Mike go and we hired Luke (giantballofoil) to replace him. Luke was a great fit for our team and what we were trying to accomplish.
    In 2014, we added an investor and me and 4 other investors threw down $100k for a total of 500k for the 2014 NFL DFS season. I still had my brother, Curt and Luke as the other employees. It was quite roller coaster year to say the least. At one point our Bankroll was over 1 million, but we had a brutal December and took a depressing -$33,000 loss. After this year, the investors and I agreed that there was a lot of variance in NFL and they’d rather invest their $$ in something else. I’m still friends with all 4 investors and have traveled and played poker with all of them in the last year. We are also in other business ventures together.

    4) I have signed up 10 students already for $150/hr currently. I didn’t expect this much demand, but maybe you are right I should charge $250/hr. Thanks

    5) I could easily do this, but it doesn’t make much sense for me to do it. I invest usually 20k+ on most nights and nearly 50% of my investment is on Fantasydraft in high stakes HU. If you question my profitability, why don’t you lock in a series of slates with me like I did to another twitter troll?

    6) Far from the truth. We haven’t spoke in 4.5 years. I have focused a lot of attention to starting up side businesses since my poker days are in my rear view mirror. I’m actually going live with a company on friday (ICO), hence why I don’t have time for this.

    I wouldn’t consider myself nitty, But I’m definitely well aware of my bottom line. I started out in poker building a bankroll through deposit bonus whoring from over 80 sites. I then became a prop on rakebacknation.com (which led me to DFS). I have picked up a lot of useful tools and have totally changed my process since I hired you as an employee.

    I do want to say this. I didn’t handle the firing the best and I was still a pretty immature guy back then. I have no ill will towards you and hope you can move on from this. It does sound like you still hold grudges to this day which isn’t healthy for anyone. Have a good one Mikey!

    Brett

    • Link
    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • jkidd1084

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    “when the investors decided to let him go from our company”

    You didn’t like that I challenged your authoritative ways. 3 guys running the show and even when 2 were completely against something, you would laugh and say “OVERRULED!” Probably not in the best interest of the “company” especially considering it never worked out and left the other two in the group frustrated. Also, you never mentioned having an issue. You called me one day and said you told Chase that you were letting me go. They did not “let me go from the company”. That was your own choosing.

    “I don’t have much of a poker teaching history”

    Then why is your response to someone questioning you in this thread “I teach people poker for 10 big blinds per hour $500/hr at 25-50)” Like I’ve said numerous times.. embellishment and you’re FOS

    “ I want to say in eek 3 or week 4, Mike kept on complaining about how underpaid he was”

    You offered me 5% of the winnings and then out of nowhere told me I’m being removed and sent me a complete slap in the face: a $600 check for ~200-300 hours of work. Not only that, you had the BALLS to then reach out months later for my SSN so you can 1099 me on the $2/hr you gave me.

    “ so after multiple talks with the investors we decided to let Mike go “

    oh, so now it’s “we” and not “when the investors decided to let him go from our company”

    “I have signed up 10 students already for $150/hr currently. I didn’t expect this much demand, but maybe you are right I should charge $250/hr. Thanks”

    I feel for them

    “ If you question my profitability, why don’t you lock in a series of slates with me like I did to another twitter troll?”

    I’m not the one trying to sell my DFS “expertise”. I play casually, because that is all that I have time for nowadays. I don’t know how this is relevant, but it’s a cute HU FOR ROLLS childish remark nonetheless

    “I’m actually going live with a company on friday (ICO), hence why I don’t have time for this”

    I have no time, that’s why I just signed TEN students up that will require attention regularly and am open to getting more. RIght.

    Also, you mention 2013 and 2014 results, what about since then? If you’re so good, why are you always looking for backing? Why are they always quitting you?

  • TnRiddles

    • Blogger of the Month

    yeah , there was never any personal agenda in this thread , LOL

  • killab2482

    • 162

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    Mike: Your pay was all agreed upon in previous skype/text messages when you left the company. I believe we cut a $1250 check for 3-4 weeks of pay. The investors 100% supported this decision.

  • killab2482

    • 162

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 DraftKings FBBWC Finalist

    • x2

      2013 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    I have not seeked any type of dfs backing since 2015(which i didn’t receive any that year). I also never started up my poker career getting backed and it just felt wrong especially if I lost for the investors in such a high variance game like NFL DFS.

  • jkidd1084

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @killab2482 said...

    Mike: Your pay was all agreed upon in previous skype/text messages when you left the company. I believe we cut a $1250 check for 3-4 weeks of pay. The investors 100% supported this decision.

    It was less than 1k, 6 weeks, and trust me, it doesn’t matter to me that I wasn’t involved past that. Why would I want to spend 2 years losing money. Pretty massive time suck. Just replying to all your points.

    • Link
    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • sochoice

    • 2017 DraftKings FBWC Finalist

    • 2017 FanDuel WFFC Champion

    Best thread yet! I don’t know either of these guys, but so far I have to say killab is winning.

    And the great thing about all of this is that killab can offer his services and the market can decide whether it wants to engage him or not.

    • Link
    • Last Updated 3 years ago
  • drewcrawford03

    • 2019 FanDuel FantaSea Finalist

    • 150

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    Makes me long for the days of Ryazan (insert popcorn gif)

  • w3stcoastoff3ns3

    I don’t see why people are mad at Jkidd for speaking up. RG is a community and we should look out for one another. If a break even player is out here selling services without proven results folks need a buyer beware. I would hate to see a new player dump money into coaching and not get anything in return. In fact RG should be against these types of solicitations because they are very toxic in nature. DFS is more about balancing risk management and information processing than anything else. You can teach someone how to build projections all you want but when those projos go down the drain due to a late scratch, etc. you have to get creative and think on the fly… which are things that can’t be taught. More power to anyone who wants to pay for coaching but anyone willing to solicit services should also be willing to stand up to the court of public opinion.

  • jkidd1084

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @killab2482 said...

    it just felt wrong especially if I lost for the investors in such a high variance game like NFL DFS

    Is this your way of admitting that you’ve lost in 2015/16/17 NFL, but that it was on your own dime?

  • NTCNDelight

    Does KillaB keep referring to what everyone does in DFS (making and entering lineups) as a company? Just he wanted to risk others peoples money whom he is referring to as investors. Am I missing something?

    Seems like you trying to glorify what you did with words like Company and investors.

  • jkidd1084

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @w3stcoastoff3ns3 said...

    I don’t see why people are mad at Jkidd for speaking up. RG is a community and we should look out for one another. If a break even player is out here selling services without proven results folks need a buyer beware. I would hate to see a new player dump money into coaching and not get anything in return. In fact RG should be against these types of solicitations because they are very toxic in nature. DFS is more about balancing risk management and information processing than anything else. You can teach someone how to build projections all you want but when those projos go down the drain due to a late scratch, etc. you have to get creative and think on the fly… which are things that can’t be taught. More power to anyone who wants to pay for coaching but anyone willing to solicit services should also be willing to stand up to the court of public opinion.

    Touche

  • joephoto

    How much do we have to pay Rotogrinders to Advertise services here ?
    Why was this Ad even in a thread ? What other services can we advertise in threads ?
    Why not buy “pop-up” ads instead?

    I have some stuff I’m trying to sell also. Should I just start a thread ?

  • jkidd1084

    • 2015 FanDuel NBA Playboy Mansion Finalist

    • 2015 FanDuel MLB Playboy Mansion Finalist

    @NTCNDelight said...

    Does KillaB keep referring to what everyone does in DFS (making and entering lineups) as a company? Just he wanted to risk others peoples money whom he is referring to as investors. Am I missing something?

    Seems like you trying to glorify what you did with words like Company and investors.

    This is exactly what he is doing. Hence my continual use of the word embellishing. He’s good at getting people to give him money, I’ll give him that. Good luck seeing positive returns, though.

  • noheartanthony

    I don’t know killab and have no idea whether he’s a good player or not. But reading the post above by Ross, basically starting that RG is not involved with the coaching, doesn’t process the payments or profit from it, seems a very naive and a little irresponsible.

    I’m not looking for coaching but if I was, I would trust that this site would only advertise coaching for players they trust and know are successful(once again not saying killab isn’t). If I drop some serious money on coaching from someone who doesn’t really know much or turns out isn’t a successful player, it definitely looks bad for the site.

  • Stewburtx8

    • 2012 FanDuel WFBC Finalist

    @w3stcoastoff3ns3 said...

    I don’t see why people are mad at Jkidd for speaking up. RG is a community and we should look out for one another. If a break even player is out here selling services without proven results folks need a buyer beware. I would hate to see a new player dump money into coaching and not get anything in return. In fact RG should be against these types of solicitations because they are very toxic in nature. DFS is more about balancing risk management and information processing than anything else. You can teach someone how to build projections all you want but when those projos go down the drain due to a late scratch, etc. you have to get creative and think on the fly… which are things that can’t be taught. More power to anyone who wants to pay for coaching but anyone willing to solicit services should also be willing to stand up to the court of public opinion.

    I agree with the general premise of your post. Also, I am not saying Jkidd1084 may not be right in some of the points he has made. But it’s clear he had a bad relationship with KillaB in the past and has a personal vendetta/agenda/grudge here. Proven by him saying “burn less bridges” in his initial post. In that case, it’s tough to take all his comments at face value.

  • Megatron1014

    Sooooo isn’t it blatantly against TOS to pool money and work together? Weird.

  • drewcrawford03

    • 2019 FanDuel FantaSea Finalist

    • 150

      RG Overall Ranking

    • 2018 FanDuel WFFC Finalist

    @Ross said...

    RotoGrinders created this coaching program to give coaches a platform to list their services. We are not partnered with the coaches listed and do not process any transactions for these services. We simply give coaches a place to list their services. They set their own prices and organize the sessions with the customers who reach out to them for coaching. We do not know how many customers purchase their services and it does not affect anything on our end. We only supply the platform for them to list their coaching ad.

    Serious question then: Does someone have to be “approved” by RG to mention on the forums their availability for DFS coaching? Or is this an open space in that regard and anyone can mention their interest in the endeavor?

  • Ross
    @noheartanthony said...

    seems a very naive and a little irresponsible.

    My wording was pretty bad and I should have explained it better. My point was RotoGrinders serves as the platform between the coaches and students, and is not a part of the actual coaching sessions or the arrangements made for the sessions.
    We also do no allow anyone to post a coaching ad. There are requirements that have to met before we consider allowing a coaching profile to be added.
    In the future we may get more involved in the process and change the way its run, but at this point we are still gauging interest and feedback from users.

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